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Re: Handgrenades[message #278969] Sat, 30 April 2011 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Buns is currently offline Buns

 
Messages:655
Registered:September 2010
ChrisL
As for the range thing, I was simply explaining why I don't increase my sight range much beyond 15. The AI doesn't seem to be able to handle the ability to see further then that because it doesn't make logical decisions on when to shot and when to move. But, ultimately, my point was that even when I have tested with higher sight ranges, I didn't notice alot of grenade use nor alot of grenades being tossed by npcs well beyond what the max range should have been.
My experience would rather be the exact opposite: I went up to 20 tiles. In my opinion this does the AI good because it has a habbit of running circles around the tile at maximum vision range from where it should be able to see the enemy in case of being shot at from an unseen opponent. This behaviour always is fatal because you end up with a dozend enemies circulating around a magical hotspot who never have a chance of seeing the enemy who is shooting at them because he is, for example, camoed and prone in high gras. That way a single sniper can clear a sector with 32 enemies at full daylight on his own; he just needs some flank protection.

A higher vision range doesn't end this behaviour, but in general the AI has a better chance of seeing the enemy while moving around, for example when rounding a corner in an urban sector. Even when the AI again becomes stalled around the "spotting tile", this one now is much larger distance of some 40 tiles, outside the range of most weapons.

Of course, this does lead to the enemy shooting at extreme distances too, but I would see an AI shooting with only little chance to hit an improvement over an AI never shooting at all.

The problem is map-design: in case a lot of enemies have a clear LOS to the edge of the map the player might get instantly pinned when entering the map. I am confidnent that smeagol's bigmaps together with a more careful placement of enemies can solve this.

So far it went good until the enemy became equipped with grenades in larger numbers. The first troop of blackshirts I run into in fact wiped out my team with a hail of grenades thrown from far beyond SMG range with high precission. And there is close to nothing you can do about it because at ranges of 30 and beyond you need a scoped rifle shot with full aimed single shots to hit. So, no chance to kill enough blackshirts in one turn to prevent them from throwing the next round of grenades.


Quote:
As with all bugs, if I can consistantly recreate it, I can usually fix it
I am not saying that this is a bug. As far as I see it, the game is doing what is intended by the code. I would rather say that the way grenades are calculated needs to be rethought.

Another thing I noticed is that the 13 tiles flat-range for my mercs seems to be the case when throwing a grenade while couched. Range while standing is higher (I usually don't have my mercs standing in battle, and getting up to throw a grenade is suicidal because you won't have enough APs to go couched again).

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