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Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint[message #293283]

Fri, 11 November 2011 15:40

Headrock

Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem

I don't know how the system works now, because AFAIK ChrisL made several changes that I haven't looked at. What I do know regarding some of the above questions:

1) Sniper Rifles were explicitly made difficult to use in close-quarters, to prevent them becoming catch-all weapons in the late game as they were in OCTH (which I personally hated with a passion). So if your target is 14 tiles away ("2x Normal", if the game is still using NORMAL=7, which I guess it is) you need a 2x scope. A 10x scope actually makes your target HARDER to hit at that distance, it might even be better to take the scope off altogether. 14 tiles should be the engagement range for pistols, shotguns and SMGs.

2) Sniper shots at long distances have something that maybe wasn't documented well enough (or people didn't realize how important it was), which is target tracking penalties. The more your target moves before a shot is fired, the harder it's going to be to hit that target - especially if MRK is low. This isn't too relevant at short distances, especially with long autofire, which is what makes SMGs great for shooting moving enemies at close-range, though from what I understand pistols are just too good at doing that regardless of how quickly your target is moving... In any case, if you're going to snipe someone at 70 tiles, wait until he stops for a turn, or just moves very few tiles at most (or is moving towards/away from you, in which case no tracking penalties apply). Tracking errors are not indicated by the targeting cursor, which is probably why no one realized they were there... It's something you need to pay attention to as a player, though that may have been a little too much to ask.

3) Yes, NCTH was designed to require more discharge of bullets rather than killing targets with aimed shots. After all, this is a feature that was built for realism, and in the real world for each person that has been killed ina gunfight in any recent war, several dozen thousand bullets were wasted (I saw the number 250,000 somewhere, not sure if that's true or not). The idea is that in more firefights a lot of lead is being discharged. This ties together with the first true HAM feature, Suppression, which also increases the incentive to fire more bullets. It's probably also the reason why some players don't like NCTH so much, because they're used to one-shot kills and either like it that way or just can't adapt to a different method of combat.

4) The reason Handling doesn't appear in UDB is mainly because, when I designed NCTH (and UDB to support it) handling was a direct factor of "AP to Ready", not a separate adjustable amount. Displaying two numbers that were so intimately related would be redundant, taking up space that I didn't have to begin with. Then ChrisL created a new separate tag for Handling, but didn't add the info to UDB for obvious reasons (he made some... weird choices with UDB to begin with, but I won't get into that).

5) I would imagine that not all problems with NCTH can be solved with XML editing. It's likely that the NCTH Constants INI file is out of balance as well, and I haven't heard anyone reporting to have played with the values there at all, which is something I don't understand. Wil, have you tried altering any of the values to see how they affect your game?

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[Message index]

		NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Fri, 29 July 2011 02:21
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Marlboro Man on Fri, 29 July 2011 16:17
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: PasHancock on Fri, 29 July 2011 16:24
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Marlboro Man on Fri, 29 July 2011 16:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: The Cheshire Cat on Sat, 30 July 2011 09:56
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Hazapuza on Sat, 30 July 2011 11:00
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Mon, 01 August 2011 01:38
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 10 August 2011 23:35
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Thu, 11 August 2011 01:16
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Thu, 11 August 2011 17:15
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Mon, 15 August 2011 01:30
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Sat, 20 August 2011 07:09
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Sun, 21 August 2011 04:43
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Mon, 22 August 2011 02:48
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Tue, 23 August 2011 23:32
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 01:33
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 02:37
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 07:03
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 07:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 09:32
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 20:57
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 21:14
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 21:33
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 22:00
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 22:22
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Thu, 25 August 2011 02:13
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Fri, 26 August 2011 00:16
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Fri, 02 September 2011 00:44
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Fri, 11 November 2011 15:40
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headhunter on Fri, 11 November 2011 20:19
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: DepressivesBrot on Fri, 11 November 2011 20:37
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Fri, 11 November 2011 20:48
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Fri, 11 November 2011 21:38
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Fri, 11 November 2011 21:45
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Fri, 11 November 2011 22:33
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: powerhouse11 on Sun, 13 November 2011 12:46
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Inkompetent on Mon, 14 November 2011 00:36
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Mon, 14 November 2011 02:18
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Mon, 14 November 2011 03:11
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headhunter on Mon, 14 November 2011 12:26
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Mon, 14 November 2011 15:04
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: usrbid on Mon, 14 November 2011 16:18
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Mon, 14 November 2011 16:35
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: usrbid on Mon, 14 November 2011 17:12
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: powerhouse11 on Tue, 15 November 2011 13:00
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Tue, 15 November 2011 22:36
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: pakopako on Thu, 17 November 2011 02:43
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: powerhouse11 on Thu, 17 November 2011 11:24
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Sam Hotte on Thu, 17 November 2011 15:34
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Action on Mon, 19 December 2011 22:13
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: knightofni on Tue, 20 December 2011 03:03
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: David81 on Tue, 20 December 2011 16:01
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Action on Wed, 21 December 2011 00:48
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 16 January 2012 19:24
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Logisteric on Mon, 16 January 2012 19:38
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Gorro der Grüne on Mon, 16 January 2012 20:22
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 16 January 2012 20:43
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Sam Hotte on Mon, 16 January 2012 21:34
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 16 January 2012 21:42
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 16 January 2012 22:36
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Thu, 19 January 2012 00:15
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Fri, 20 January 2012 18:38
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Sat, 21 January 2012 01:02
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Sat, 21 January 2012 02:56
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headhunter on Mon, 13 February 2012 23:14
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Tue, 14 February 2012 07:41
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: DepressivesBrot on Tue, 14 February 2012 09:59
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Tue, 14 February 2012 23:48
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Sun, 19 February 2012 06:07
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: buuface on Sun, 19 February 2012 12:14
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: DepressivesBrot on Sun, 19 February 2012 12:16
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: buuface on Sun, 19 February 2012 12:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Sun, 19 February 2012 13:15
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Mon, 20 February 2012 00:07
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 20 February 2012 02:25
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Mon, 20 February 2012 04:00
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Sat, 25 February 2012 02:18
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Sat, 25 February 2012 05:58
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Sun, 26 February 2012 06:06
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Sun, 26 February 2012 19:39
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Mon, 27 February 2012 00:15
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 27 February 2012 01:39
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Tue, 28 February 2012 00:27
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Tue, 28 February 2012 01:21
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Tue, 28 February 2012 01:39
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Tue, 28 February 2012 02:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Wed, 29 February 2012 00:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Wed, 07 March 2012 23:12
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Fri, 16 March 2012 08:50
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Biernath_J on Fri, 16 March 2012 09:23
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 19 March 2012 19:39
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Biernath_J on Mon, 19 March 2012 20:27
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Sweeper on Mon, 09 April 2012 18:22
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Nixou on Mon, 07 May 2012 08:43

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