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Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint[message #295532]

Tue, 20 December 2011 16:01

David81

Messages:21
Registered:November 2011
Location: Germany

Something has bugged me now that I am halfway through a 1.13 campaign with the NCTH.

MPs and SMGs and their AP-to-raise-weapon.

Many MPs have 0AP once you fit them with a folding stock or similar device! Even heavy weapons like the Uzi (which is like 3x or 4x as heavy as some pistols).

Shouldn't AP be related to how quick you can ready such a weapon? I.e. it should depend on the weight and the length of a weapon mostly. Physically the key parameter should be the weapon's moment of inertia around its center of mass. It's what you work against when you swing a weapon from the carrying stance (held at waist height, barrel pointing downwards) into firing position (at shoulder height, barrel pointing upwards). Loosely speaking, the heavier a weapon is the higher is its moment of inertia; if the mass of a weapon is not close to the center of mass but more "spread out" (like when you attach heavy stuff to the barrel) the moment of inertia goes up; and making the weapon longer also disproportionally increases moment of inertia and the effort required to handle the weapon. (Like attaching an AR silencer which is 15-20 cm long and weighs half a kg - that should make the weapon "feel" much heavier when you move it around)

Some of the weapons that are long and heavy are right now at an advantage over smaller weapons because the AP system does not reflect the ease of handling a weapon properly.

Related topic: Why does the weapon (and the raised/lowered stance of the weapon) not influence APs needed to turn around? Some weapons are long and heavy (MGs, sniper rifles), why does it take the same AP to turn holding such a weapon at your shoulder as it does turning with just a pistol?

I think there's a big potential to balance pistols and other light weight weapons against heavier but more powerful weapons. Right now in CQB there's no reason to take a pistol when you have an SMG or MP which also has 0 AP. But in really close quarters where you need to turn and run around corners a lot you should want to carry a light weapon, not a 2-3 kg machine pistol fitted with another kg worth of attachments.

If you look at the length of a weapon, and make longer/bigger weapons more difficult to handle, you could give players a whole new reason to use short-barreled shotguns. A sawed off shotgun is not a heavy weapon at all, if such a weapon gave you an advantage turning and moving in close quarters you'd balance those weapons vis-a-vis the assault rifles and heavy SMGs which take the same AP fire but would get higher AP-to-turn/-move.

[Updated on: Tue, 20 December 2011 16:09] by Moderator

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[Message index]

		NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Fri, 29 July 2011 02:21
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Marlboro Man on Fri, 29 July 2011 16:17
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: PasHancock on Fri, 29 July 2011 16:24
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Marlboro Man on Fri, 29 July 2011 16:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: The Cheshire Cat on Sat, 30 July 2011 09:56
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Hazapuza on Sat, 30 July 2011 11:00
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Mon, 01 August 2011 01:38
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 10 August 2011 23:35
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Thu, 11 August 2011 01:16
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Thu, 11 August 2011 17:15
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Mon, 15 August 2011 01:30
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Sat, 20 August 2011 07:09
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Sun, 21 August 2011 04:43
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Mon, 22 August 2011 02:48
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Tue, 23 August 2011 23:32
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 01:33
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 02:37
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 07:03
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 07:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 09:32
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 20:57
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 21:14
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 21:33
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Pariah on Wed, 24 August 2011 22:00
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Wed, 24 August 2011 22:22
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Thu, 25 August 2011 02:13
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Fri, 26 August 2011 00:16
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Fri, 02 September 2011 00:44
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Fri, 11 November 2011 15:40
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headhunter on Fri, 11 November 2011 20:19
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: DepressivesBrot on Fri, 11 November 2011 20:37
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Fri, 11 November 2011 20:48
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Fri, 11 November 2011 21:38
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Fri, 11 November 2011 21:45
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Fri, 11 November 2011 22:33
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: powerhouse11 on Sun, 13 November 2011 12:46
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Inkompetent on Mon, 14 November 2011 00:36
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Mon, 14 November 2011 02:18
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Mon, 14 November 2011 03:11
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headhunter on Mon, 14 November 2011 12:26
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Mon, 14 November 2011 15:04
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: usrbid on Mon, 14 November 2011 16:18
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Mon, 14 November 2011 16:35
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: usrbid on Mon, 14 November 2011 17:12
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: powerhouse11 on Tue, 15 November 2011 13:00
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headrock on Tue, 15 November 2011 22:36
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: pakopako on Thu, 17 November 2011 02:43
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: powerhouse11 on Thu, 17 November 2011 11:24
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Sam Hotte on Thu, 17 November 2011 15:34
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Action on Mon, 19 December 2011 22:13
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: knightofni on Tue, 20 December 2011 03:03
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: David81 on Tue, 20 December 2011 16:01
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Action on Wed, 21 December 2011 00:48
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 16 January 2012 19:24
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Logisteric on Mon, 16 January 2012 19:38
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Gorro der Grüne on Mon, 16 January 2012 20:22
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 16 January 2012 20:43
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Sam Hotte on Mon, 16 January 2012 21:34
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 16 January 2012 21:42
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 16 January 2012 22:36
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Thu, 19 January 2012 00:15
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Fri, 20 January 2012 18:38
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Sat, 21 January 2012 01:02
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Wil473 on Sat, 21 January 2012 02:56
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Headhunter on Mon, 13 February 2012 23:14
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Tue, 14 February 2012 07:41
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: DepressivesBrot on Tue, 14 February 2012 09:59
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Tue, 14 February 2012 23:48
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Sun, 19 February 2012 06:07
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: buuface on Sun, 19 February 2012 12:14
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: DepressivesBrot on Sun, 19 February 2012 12:16
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: buuface on Sun, 19 February 2012 12:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Sun, 19 February 2012 13:15
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Mon, 20 February 2012 00:07
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 20 February 2012 02:25
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Mon, 20 February 2012 04:00
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Sat, 25 February 2012 02:18
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Sat, 25 February 2012 05:58
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Sun, 26 February 2012 06:06
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Sun, 26 February 2012 19:39
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: UniversalWolf on Mon, 27 February 2012 00:15
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 27 February 2012 01:39
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Tue, 28 February 2012 00:27
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Tue, 28 February 2012 01:21
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Tue, 28 February 2012 01:39
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Tue, 28 February 2012 02:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: sabresandy on Wed, 29 February 2012 00:49
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Wed, 07 March 2012 23:12
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Fri, 16 March 2012 08:50
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Biernath_J on Fri, 16 March 2012 09:23
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Ryft on Mon, 19 March 2012 19:39
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Biernath_J on Mon, 19 March 2012 20:27
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Sweeper on Mon, 09 April 2012 18:22
		Re: NCTH: Weapons that Disappoint By: Nixou on Mon, 07 May 2012 08:43

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