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Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312154] Fri, 16 November 2012 22:10 Go to next message
Flugente

 
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Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities

Hi,

one thing most players enjoy a lot (or fear :scary: ) is the massive counterattack the queen launches after you conquered Drassen. So I added a bit of code... that allows her to do this on the other major cities (Chitzena, Grumm, Cambria, Alma, Balime). It works the same way as the Drassen counterattack, the attack is started after she says so in the cutscene.

Another thing I added, which will further increase difficulty:

On 2 occasions in the campaign, the queen launches a major offensive. I won't go into much detail as to what that is - lets just say it'll be more difficult than the Drassen counterattack (if I the AI does not screw up the timing).

Of course, these things are fully optional:
; This enables massive counterattacks in all cities, just like in Drassen.
; NOTE: These attacks will be huge. You have been warned.
; 0: no attacks
; 1: counterattacks on all cities possible
; 2: 1 + major offensives depending on game progress
AGGRESSIVE_STRATEGIC_AI = 1

sets wether this feature is on or not, and
; The queen decides to go on the offensive. WARNING: This will be hard!
; AGGRESSIVE_STRATEGIC_AI must be true for this to have any effect
GAME_PROGRESS_OFFENSIVE_STAGE_1 = 65
GAME_PROGRESS_OFFENSIVE_STAGE_2 = 85

sets when these offensives can occur.

Important sidenote to those who want truly massive attacks: Currently, the size of the Drassen counterattacks is limited by MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE for each pack. If you want massive battles, increase that number (never decrease that thing below 20!!!). Also increase MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE_..., as this is the base for the size calculation.

Note that it is not necessary to start a new game for this, just update your .exe and the Ja2Options.ini.

Lets see how people manage to fend off counterattack in sectors where there are no toilets to hide in :pitchfork:

This feature is now in the trunk (r5688, GameDir r1562).

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312157] Sat, 17 November 2012 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax is currently offline Slax

 
Messages:1403
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Finally! Deidranna's orders will finally be heard. Very Happy
Maybe tweak it so you can set a buildup time for random massive attacks? In approximate days. Something like...
RECHARGE_TIME (in days): 20
MAX_VARIATION (more or less days): 5

In case you'd want more of them.

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312168] Sat, 17 November 2012 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headhunter is currently offline Headhunter

 
Messages:260
Registered:November 2009
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Slax
Finally!
I've been waiting for this so long now. Thanks Flugente!

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312169] Sat, 17 November 2012 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:344
Registered:July 2006
Wooohooo. :rulez:

I've been waiting so long for this.

Thanks a lot man. :cheers:

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312172] Sat, 17 November 2012 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone is currently offline Toneone

 
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You...you made me the happiest man on earth. :happybear:

Someone should shower your account with honor badges!

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312177] Sat, 17 November 2012 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
This sounds great. Rock'n'roll!

Kudos to Flugente :super:

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312201] Sun, 18 November 2012 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob is currently offline The_Bob

 
Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
Did you already increase the limit for max characters in sector?

The thing that made enemies randomly spawn at sector edges once you killed one, when the attacking group's size was larger then the max enemy unit in sector limit.

If not, is this something that could be easily increased by changing data type from byte to int somewhere then adjusting limits?

I'm mentioning this because reinforcements in this manner are either borderline unfair to the player (spawn behind team = enemy interrupt = lost battle) or very easily exploitable, heavily leaning toward the latter if the spawned group size is 1-3 (just plant snipers watching sector edges and take out enemies as they spawn). This will become more apparent with more massive battles.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312203] Sun, 18 November 2012 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Registered:April 2009
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I eventually plan to increase that limit, but as that can cause all kind of weird effects, not for now. From what I gather, the consequences would be rather severe Sad, as the limit is needed in a lot of placed... sometimes even hardcoded, thus changing it will become a huge bughunt.

I only very rarely get the behaviour you describe above, most of the time the reinforcements arrive at the correct borders. Last time I had it was after a glitch of mine in the zombie invasion caused all reinforcements to have size 64.

As the counterattacks rely on the good old reinforcement mechanic, nothing odd should happen here. Whenever possible, I coded the attacks so that they arrive from as many borders as possible anyway Very Happy

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312396] Sat, 24 November 2012 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
Messages:432
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Maybe i understand wrong,but seems that massive attacks didnot work for uc 1.13.Enemy still do nothing just sittin in defence.no attacks.I made all customization in ja2_option.ini and it didnot work.What i am do wrong?Using last 5697.exe

[Updated on: Sat, 24 November 2012 13:30] by Moderator

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312398] Sat, 24 November 2012 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
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I think you did , it's for 1.13 , not UC 1.13 , different mods you see . Probably Wil could add it at some time though .

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312399] Sat, 24 November 2012 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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I made customization in uc113 folder where ja2_option situtated.One little thing i add those lines in the end of ja2-option ini not in subdirectories.I done it wrong or what?=)

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312404] Sat, 24 November 2012 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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lockie
I think you did , it's for 1.13 , not UC 1.13 , different mods you see . Probably Wil could add it at some time though .
Uhm, no. He would have written if any data work was required, so it should affect the equivalent UC cities.
Parkan
I made customization in uc113 folder where ja2_option situtated.One little thing i add those lines in the end of ja2-option ini not in subdirectories.I done it wrong or what?=)
Always add stuff to the right section!

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312405] Sat, 24 November 2012 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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Ok.can you gave me a tip.In what section i must add those lines?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312406] Sat, 24 November 2012 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
How about searching for the according setting which is already present in ini since 4870 at least(AGGRESSIVE_STRATEGIC_AI) and adding the new line(s) below it?

And as it is dealing with strategic enemy AI settings it is in exactly this branch of ini:
strategic enemy AI setting.

Smile

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312408] Sat, 24 November 2012 17:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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I added to strategic enemy AI setting. section.no changes.tried to change values of game progress-no changes at all.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312413] Sat, 24 November 2012 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
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But you are aware that
1. these settings do require the start of a new campaign each time you change them;
2. you need to recapture the major cities then;
3. you need to reach the set amount of progress before the offensive state can commence
?

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312414] Sat, 24 November 2012 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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Flugente
Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities


Note that it is not necessary to start a new game for this, just update your .exe and the Ja2Options.ini.




So, Flugente is not right?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312415] Sat, 24 November 2012 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
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Ah, no, I'm blind; i read "it is necessary ...".
Sorry for confusing!

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312416] Sat, 24 November 2012 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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I haven't looked at the actual triggerfunctions, but I'd guess that 'counterattacks on major cities' requires a slapping Elliot scene to trigger just like the DCA does and 'major offensives' are launched when you first hit that progress level, like the Mad Lab event. So did you do any of that and account for transit times or did you just expect them to suddenly behave differently while you were sitting around somewhere?

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312417] Sat, 24 November 2012 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
Messages:432
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ok.Seems after mading some changes the attacks start.but i hoped those attacks will be more often thant 1 time per captured city.maybe it is a bug but enemy not send any forces to attack me during almost whole campaigh(the drassen\calisto attack not count).I am playing on insane.What customization i must done to made enemy often attack?

first time i waited.after that change some progress values and captured with cheats a city,after cutscene that attack began.but i hope such attacks will be often and trigger more times.

[Updated on: Sat, 24 November 2012 19:38] by Moderator

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312432] Sun, 25 November 2012 00:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
It's said in the opening post:
Flugente

It works the same way as the Drassen counterattack, the attack is started after she says so in the cutscene.

And
Flugente
On 2 occasions in the campaign, the queen launches a major offensive.


So you have 6 single, targeted counter attacks trying to retake a city each (the known one on Drassen + 5 new ones by Flugente).
Plus another 2 overall offensives; one in mid- and late game each (or whatever progress you set in the ini).

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312477] Mon, 26 November 2012 01:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
It would be possible to have the queen cyclically send out massive counterattacks. However, I feel that would kinda remove the specialness of it. Altough numbers is the only thing the queen has in her arsenal that can slow the player, I don't feel like coding constant 1000-men zerg rushes (yet).

However, you can increase the sizes of regular patrols or attacks by increasing MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE and MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE_xxx. I strongly recommend that, as 20 soldiers attacking a city stuffed with militia and your mercs isn't that threatening.

Also note that the exact nature of the 2 offensives will depend on which territorial gains you have made in your play once it is activated.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312480] Mon, 26 November 2012 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE set to 100
MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE_xxx set to 20

The attacking grups large but still city attacks occur only 1-2 times and stop.in early versio of mod in Uc campaigh and stock ja2 campaigh enemy always send troops to take city back,and now it is not work=(.New_aggressive_Ai not work.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312508] Mon, 26 November 2012 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:344
Registered:July 2006
Would it be possible to make externalization of this feature to xml file? It could allow us to setup what sectors would trigger the counterattacks in case mod has different city setup and locations and maybe manually set frequency and severity (number of troops and groups) of these attacks. I guess that would probably be best solution as it's hard to satisfy everyone while this feature is mostly hardcoded.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312511] Mon, 26 November 2012 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Aren't there similar D-is-slapping-Elliot cut scenes for the SAM sites? Maybe there [c|sh]ould be according counter attacks for them as well.

This would add some more larger enemy groups on the board without Flug coding another zerg rush ... Smile

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312516] Mon, 26 November 2012 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3499
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@Uriens: I thought about how to externalise this, and did not find a good way. For starters, the counterattacks are tied to specific NPC actions - if those numbers ever change, the attacks will occur with very odd timing (like every time you get mine income or whatever). Counter attacks on cities that are not hardcoded are pretty impossible (as the Strategic AI does not know them). Workaround would be to somehow determine where cities are and then launch an assault once the player captures all of those sectors, but there's a whole lot of additional work behind that.

A much, much more severe problem is Arulco's topology. If you change a minor thing about he map, like, say, the road topology, the enemy groups that make up an attack will walk a different way. Even worse, if one does not plan this, they can decide that in order to surround a sector before attacking, they have to move through it - which results in several small assaults instead of a massive one from all sides. For example, I found absolutely no way to get troops coming from Meduna to surround Alma mine, those that should go to the east always try to be smart and move through the mine.

I saw no other solution than to test each attack and time their travel times... for example, the Grumm counterattack patrols start from 3 different sectors. Which means that I would have to externalise a lot of data to get this working. Not saying it's impossible, but a lot of work... especially note that anyone testing his/her own custom counter attacks will have to test a lot. Even with a debugger and custom-built 'destroy city garrison on button' and 'press key to initiate counter attack #3' it is a pain. Especially if one goes the way above for custom cities.

So, in short: doable, but a lot of work (or more), and a lot of pain to test.

@Parkan: Have you perhaps run out of troops? The counterattacks take troops from the queen's reinforcement pool (interestingly, the DCA never did), so they can easily deplete it...

@Sam Hotte: the interesting thing is that there always were counter attacks fro SAM sites... jsut like for the other cities. But they were always just a very small squad, so nobody ever noticed. I might improve those, but the problem is that Chitzena SAM is hard to reach from Meduna, and Drassen SAM suffers from the 'AI pathfinding results in one-directional attack' problem.

Question: Has anybody already experienced the new counter-attacks? I'm wondering how hard they were. Also... Has anybody tried the offensives yet? If yes, how was it?

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312518] Mon, 26 November 2012 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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The quen garrison is 500% more from normal capacity in each defending sector there is a lot 50-100 enemy units.and those units just defend not offence.there are was several patrols but their was destroyed by my mercs and no more patrols came.in early version if i had a lot of mobile milita and sector defender militia enemy always continue it attacks but now th enemy not attacks just defend.

on insane diff. she has unlimited pool and how i understand she must make attack much more often then usual.

[Updated on: Mon, 26 November 2012 21:24] by Moderator

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312519] Mon, 26 November 2012 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Yeah, i noticed the SAM-CAs in most of my games (like a full patrol of elites going for the according SAM).

Couldn't you "copy" and adopt the DCA-code (I thought that's what you've just done to create your City-CAs anyway)? I always got the impression that those troops do not come from meduna but are created something like in Alma or so since they arrived pretty quick after the cutscene during which the queen issued the command to do so.

Though this would be a cheating AI, i wouldn't mind if the troops for additional CAs would be spawned like in the nearest town controlled by the queen or so.
(but as usual i lack the coding skills to judge whether this could be done with reasonable efforts, tho)



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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312604] Thu, 29 November 2012 05:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
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I've been messing a bit with enemy group sizes and I've tried
MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE = 100
and
MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE_EXPERT = 32.

With new game and these settings enemy groups for Drassen counterattack were about 69 soldiers per group. However, although enemy attacked Drassen mine properly from all sides only right side showed with 64 + 20 reserves. It appears I've hit a 256 limit and an overflow happened. Is it possible to increase this limit to at least 2 byte value? This limit affects all counterattacks and I'd really like huge and long battles in those occasions.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312605] Thu, 29 November 2012 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich is currently offline JMich

 
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The 256 limit is currently not increasable, since that is the number of actors one can have in tactical view, and it includes your own team, enemies, civilians and creatures. While it should (in theory) be increasable, it exists in so many parts of the code that at the current time is hard to find and fix.
Hopefully, that will change in the future.

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First Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312611] Thu, 29 November 2012 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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I doubt the reinforcement counter is the same as the tactical actor structures, it already can go above the 64 allocated for enemies and should merely hold a counter how many dudes are yet to spawn.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312615] Thu, 29 November 2012 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
Messages:432
Registered:April 2010
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Well, now i am playing with such Ai settings and still enemy no counterattack my sectors.It only attack when i capture city and attack 1 time.


Toggle Spoiler


Is my settings really screwed or there is a really bugs in AI ,that's prevent him to attack captured city.?

All my checks was on 5697 exe with Vanilla maps,UC hybrid,AFS 3.65.

[Updated on: Thu, 29 November 2012 12:30] by Moderator

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312617] Thu, 29 November 2012 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Try setting
NEW_AGGRESSIVE_AI = FALSE

(It's been said to not work yet)

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312619] Thu, 29 November 2012 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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It doesn't work in the sense that this setting isn't called anywhere - at all. You could set it to global thermonuclear war and the only effect would be that the ini reader complains about out of bounds data.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312621] Thu, 29 November 2012 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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Not really understand what you mean.Is my settings screwed or something really going wrong?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312622] Thu, 29 November 2012 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
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Just forget about my post and Brot's answer to it. he just explained to me that the setting i mentioned can never ever cause any issues as it is not used ingame.

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312625] Thu, 29 November 2012 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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But how it possible if in early versions of mod enemy squads made often attacks to player's captured sectors.And now they only attack few times and stop.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312636] Thu, 29 November 2012 23:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:344
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DepressivesBrot
I doubt the reinforcement counter is the same as the tactical actor structures, it already can go above the 64 allocated for enemies and should merely hold a counter how many dudes are yet to spawn.


That's exactly what I was thinking. IIRC the SpaceViking was making changes for numbers of actors in tactical combat and the maximum number of total actors was 208. Anything above that made game unstable and increasing it would require major code rewriting. I don't ask for that. The number of reinforcements should be separate value and it's probably capped to single byte value (256) and when you pass that value it just resets back to 0 (overflow). I'm asking to change this value to more then just one byte so it can allow for more then 256 reinforcements (could be reinforcements + number of troops on the map, not sure).
At the moment, if you really want big battles vs enemy groups and not just counterattacks it's not possible to set it up. Going above usual MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE = 32 has a chance an overflow will happen and make counterattacks way too easy - or just cause crashes.
Oh, and when I tried to retreat my mercs from Drassen mine, a CTD happened; no assertion failure or any other message, just back to desktop.

Parkan
But how it possible if in early versions of mod enemy squads made often attacks to player's captured sectors.And now they only attack few times and stop.


Do you have ALLOW_TRAINING_ELITE_MILITIA set to TRUE? Did you train all militia in cities to veteran level?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312651] Fri, 30 November 2012 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
Messages:432
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Yes i do.But in early versions of mod veteran militia in sectors didnot stop enemy squads from attacking.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312652] Fri, 30 November 2012 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
However now you know the reason: enemy does not attack against elite militia.
Do not train elites if you want more AI attacks against you.

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Sergeant Major
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