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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307898]
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Sun, 22 July 2012 19:44  
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 Alas86 |
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Messages:32
Registered:October 2010 |
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SotoYou don't need only their agreement, but smeagol's as well since it is his mod and should stay exclusive to some extent. At least that's my opinion... Exclusive? Why? As long as proper credit is given what would the problem be?
That said, I'd like to see many of the LBEs from AIMNAS incorporated into base 1.13 too.
[Updated on: Sun, 22 July 2012 19:45] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307922]
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Sun, 22 July 2012 23:26
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| Alas86 |
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Messages:32
Registered:October 2010 |
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SotoThere is no debate, we are a community here and whoever does something cool has any rights to decide what to do or what not to do with it. Otherwise he or she will be pissed and will stop making cool stuff! It's no rocket science, but some people seem to have no understanding for this simple formula... And with that: Again, Smeag made the stuff, his decision. Deal with it or scram! Yes we are a community here and whoever does sth cool offers it up to this community to make this game better for all of us. He doesn't put it up so he can get bragging rights and claim exclusivity and prove just how cool he is to everyone else. People that do that are obviously out there to satisfy their own egos and only, so no matter how good their work may be people like that are never a blessing to any community. In other words, if they don't wanna share, they can scram.
PS And btw I'm speaking generally here. As I clearly said earlier, I have every confidence that smeagol would never cause an issue like that.
[Updated on: Sun, 22 July 2012 23:27] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307923]
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Sun, 22 July 2012 23:37
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| JMich |
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Messages:543
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece |
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AlasYes we are a community here and whoever does sth cool offers it up to this community to make this game better for all of us.
Jazz, Shuwar, Headrock. All three of those didn't offer their material for use by the rest of us until they deemed the material was complete. AIMNAS is still work in progress.
P.S. If you don't know who Shuwar is/was, he is the guy that showed us the possibility of a Super Tileset, and dissappeared without giving us the modifications he had done so far. Jazz is someone who has also given us some nice modifications, though the documentation for those is lacking a bit. As for Headrock, with HAM 5.5 almost done, he dissappeared for ~6 months, with no trace of either him or his code.
So please, go ahead and tell us that Headrock does it for the bragging rights.
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First Sergeant
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307925]
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Sun, 22 July 2012 23:43
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| Alas86 |
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Messages:32
Registered:October 2010 |
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JMichSo please, go ahead and tell us that Headrock does it for the bragging rights. And did Headrock deny his code to the community when people managed to contact him and ask? I kinda doubt that.
Not that it has much to do with it here anyway, we are talking about stuff that are available to us now. RL didn't interfere with smeagol to make him vanish before he could upload his stuff.
[Updated on: Sun, 22 July 2012 23:43] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307931]
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Mon, 23 July 2012 00:08
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| Alas86 |
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Messages:32
Registered:October 2010 |
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@DepressivesBrot
Conjecture and speculation? This isn't about smeagol in particular, I said so earlier, so no, what I'm doing here is defending a way of thinking that I believe is to the benefit of this community and our ja2-gaming experience in general. That what someone makes and uploads here is for all of us. I didn't even say that people shouldn't ask for permission, that's definitely the courteous thing to do, I only said that it is a typical procedure asking for permission, or at least it should be. So what I don't understand is the hostility I'm receiving for the things I said, I have been polite enough to everyone and all I got was people telling me to scram and to shut up and putting words in my mouth, even small things but they do create impressions. For instance could you tell me where I said that everything should be included in base 1.13? Saying I'd like to see many of the LBE items in is barely the same thing, AIMNAS has more than 1000 items, maybe 2000, many of the LBEs could be 20 or 30.
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307940]
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Mon, 23 July 2012 01:24
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| Alas86 |
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Messages:32
Registered:October 2010 |
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@Sam Hotte
Again, I would ask for permission, its possible and its courteous. The reason I said what I said wasn't to threaten anyone, but simply because I couldn't fathom the idea that someone would act that way(aka say no). Apparently I overestimated both the maturity and the altruism of many in this community. So yes, who knows maybe smeagol isn't like that either, maybe he would say no afterall. In that case fine, his would be the shame.
@Soto
I find your post to be full of conceit. I'm here because I find the game and the mods of this community to be fun, not because I'll die without them, and you know what? This is not fun anymore. So yeah, end of discussion for me, congrats you chased the bad newb away, I hope that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
[Updated on: Mon, 23 July 2012 01:34] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307945]
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Mon, 23 July 2012 01:38
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| Soto Banaris |
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Messages:129
Registered:May 2012
Location: Germany |
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Alas@Soto
I find your post to be full of conceit. I'm here because I find the game and the mods of this community to be fun, not because I'll die without them, and you know what? This is not fun anymore. So yeah, end of discussion for me, congrats you chased the bad newb away, I hope that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
You think I have any feelings of guilt? Think again after I show you your very own words on my mere hint that smeagol might say no...
AlasSotoOkay.... What if he says "No! Simply No!"?
Do you
a) Do it anyway or
b) accept that quietly
And I like to point out you should choose wise now...  Obviously I'm not calling the shots, but if I did and he did stoop so low as to say sth like that, sth unthinkable the way I see things, then yes I would do it anyway. After that, if he wanted, he could sue.
...
Well if you think I'm the bad guy here, comfort your soul with this. As soon as you said you would ask but no matter what the answer you would do as you please I became the cruise missile aimed for your daydream. Reality is a bitch, Alas and you will learn that we are working here not being paid but for the fun for all. I learned that easy and fast. All what everyone here demands in return is respect for his work. If you do what you want, you don't show respect, you don't offer friendship. Now listen, I'm already giving godfather talk here... You are the victim here? Oh, I feel a tiny lonely tear running down my cheek. Don't give me that. You brought my words upon yourself.
[Updated on: Mon, 23 July 2012 01:41] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307949]
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Mon, 23 July 2012 03:19
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| Sam Hotte |
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Messages:1960
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany |
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Alas@Sam Hotte
Again, I would ask for permission, its possible and its courteous. The reason I said what I said wasn't to threaten anyone, but simply because I couldn't fathom the idea that someone would act that way(aka say no).
It doesn't matter if you intended this to be a threat or not - it just was one. If you do not intend to live with one of the possible answers - do not ask. period.
And honestly, i do not take this excuse (but that's just me) because you did everything to put as much pressure as possible on the one to be "asked" to make it impossible for him to say 'no'.
Quote:Apparently I overestimated both the maturity and the altruism of many in this community. So yes, who knows maybe smeagol isn't like that either, maybe he would say no afterall. In that case fine, his would be the shame.
Very cute. General brickbat to "many in this community" that might or might not have a different opinion than yours. That is of course a sign of your maturity and altruism, isn't it. Surely it has been purely altruistic to get somebody else's work that you lacked into the game ...
And finally you/we even do not know, what Smeag would have said IF you/we had asked him before this unpleasant thread - but let's bash him anyway? Again this is very mature and altruistic, isn't it.
So, yes, EOD at this point is a good idea, i agree on that. 
But to come back to the more costructive side of this:
Another large item mod out there is IOV; somebody interested (and willing to accept even denial) could ask them for interesting or missing items to be added to main branch of plain 1.13.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #307961]
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Mon, 23 July 2012 10:04
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| smeagol |
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Messages:2704
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany |
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Matter of fact is, that this discussion comes up time after time, over and over again. Of course I feel honoured by it, yes, of course I'm flattered by the idea, that a big chunk of my work would get into the trunk (also matter of fact is, that some of my work already is in the trunk...). But in regards to taking even bigger chunks of stuff to feed into main 1.13 is in my opinion a bad idea. It delutes things too much.
Also, after the ongoing discussions of the last weeks which ended in a not so nice finish, I'd feel that putting the item part of AIMNAS into 1.13 is just another lame attempt of trying to get it run without bigmaps.
My answer to this has been and will be for the near future, that I don't think it is a good idea.
I'm totally with Brot on this matter. New items that get added to 1.13 are mainly there to showcase the possibilities and open them up for players to get used to new features. Adding more stuff to the trunk is just a way of confusing players. In my opinion basic 1.13 even contains too many items tbh. It would be best served if a few items get cut from it.
In the last couple years I've read enough forum comments that said something along the lines of "whoa.... there's so damn much stuff... isn't there an option to play with fewer items?" And tons of guns / regular guns gun choice option isn't a real option. Muggsy was working of a more detailed variant of this with more choices, at least he said he was. Dunno what happened to that project.
Anyways, I'm getting distracting... AIMNAS in 1.13? Not gonna happen.
Also I don't know what triggered it, but I'm curious what's causing this recent PR rush?
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| Re: A question regarding AIMNAS / 1.13[message #308039]
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Tue, 24 July 2012 17:10
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| dinglehopper |
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Messages:134
Registered:January 2008 |
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Although I love Smeagols work on aimnas, and it is my preferred way to play (even without the possibility of finishing the game, as it currently stands), copying the aimnas items into 1.13 would be a disaster.
Again, this is not meant as a dig towards smeagol in any way, and I would bet he largely agrees with what I am saying. Aimnas has a unique vision behind it, smeagols vision. While many people like taking a ride on smeagols vision and playing aimnas, it in many ways deviates from what baseline 1.13 should be.
For example, the items in aimnas are designed to be relatively balanced so that there is no cookie cutter
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Sergeant
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