The Bears Pit: v1.13 Feature Requests » Alternative to Drop All

Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » Alternative to Drop All - Reduced Drop

Show: Today's Messages :: Polls :: Message Navigator

Alternative to Drop All - Reduced Drop[message #308716]

Mon, 06 August 2012 10:25

usrbid

Messages:1502
Registered:December 2008

Several players discussed Drop All vs. Normal Drop options. Why do we want to limit ourselves to only two extremes, how about something in the middle?

The idea is to "soften" the Drop All somehow. For example enemies could just drop ammunition and maybe some other minor items like for example food, miscellaneous like aluminum rods, duct tape etc.

Another alternative is to severely reduce the status of dropped items from what it currently is and remove items with a status lower than e.g. 20 percent from the drop altogether.

The later will make it undesirable to repair weapons and armor, unless the player really insists. The reduced status idea is already in the game through the used items section at Bobby Ray's. Many players won't bother buying them unless the item is really attractive.

For example let's say most items drop with a status between 50% to 80% after liberating the first city. Let's apply some penalty like e.g. 40% to that to get a range between 10% and 40%. All items under 20% get deleted from the drop, leaving items from 20% to 40% for the player.

The status reduction should not affect the minor items like food, miscellaneous like aluminum rods, duct tape etc. as these are merge items and most of them can't be repaired until after the merge.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major

Re: Alternative to Drop All - Reduced Drop[message #308719]

Mon, 06 August 2012 10:54

DepressivesBrot

Messages:3641
Registered:July 2009

Isn't the first part what the drop chances are supposed to do? If not, what is their purpose?
To clarify: There's an XML that says stuff like 'enemy has 30% chance to drop gun' or 'has 50% chance to drop ammo' with a correaponding ini setting (something about externalized drops)

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Alternative to Drop All - Reduced Drop[message #308737]

Mon, 06 August 2012 20:01

public1983

Messages:125
Registered:February 2006

Hi,

if I understand You right, there should not be a chance of an item to drop, but a reduced condition in which every item drops. Below zero would be the same as not dropped in the original system. The idea is appealing. However, the player would drown in garbage items, which might be valuable, as soon as a good mechanic shows up. I encountered random crashes, when I managed to pile 4000+ items on one single tile. Nothing prevents the player from this, other than a restrictive drop.

Otherwise, I like the idea. How would You explain the phenomenom emersion-wise? Does being dropped in the dirt with a corpse on top instantly break an item?

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant

Re: Alternative to Drop All - Reduced Drop[message #308748]

Tue, 07 August 2012 04:31

usrbid

Messages:1502
Registered:December 2008

DepressivesBrot

Isn't the first part what the drop chances are supposed to do? If not, what is their purpose?
To clarify: There's an XML that says stuff like 'enemy has 30% chance to drop gun' or 'has 50% chance to drop ammo' with a correaponding ini setting (something about externalized drops)

Yo DB, I did not know that we have drop chances XML externalized.

I was trying to reply to abradley post here. Since there was no immediately helpful replies, I didn't even get the idea that the stuff is already externalized, which might not be totally bad, it made me think more about it.

sunshine

... there should not be a chance of an item to drop, but a reduced condition in which every item drops. Below zero would be the same as not dropped in the original system. The idea is appealing. However, the player would drown in garbage items, which might be valuable, as soon as a good mechanic shows up. I encountered random crashes, when I managed to pile 4000+ items on one single tile. Nothing prevents the player from this, other than a restrictive drop.

You are correct, my idea is Drop All with a status reduction. I call it Reduced Drop (but it can be called anything).

When I formulated my initial idea, I did not know that drop rates are already externalized, and that abradley has already a solution.

sunshine

Otherwise, I like the idea. How would You explain the phenomenom emersion-wise? Does being dropped in the dirt with a corpse on top instantly break an item?

Please keep in mind that my idea will not drop items with a status 19 and less, all these items will still just disappear. This will eliminate "trash" items to fill up the sector (to some degree).

Immersion wise, it means that enemy items are generally in poor condition in your game, you really need to put in some work to make them retail store quality.

In my example the status penalty is 40%, meaning you only get items from 20% to 60% at best, since 100% becomes 60%, and everything lower than 20% disappears. However any status penalty can be used e.g. 20% for a softer item degredation or 60% for a really poor banana republic type game.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major

Re: Alternative to Drop All - Reduced Drop[message #308765]

Tue, 07 August 2012 12:10

DepressivesBrot

Messages:3641
Registered:July 2009

sunshine

Otherwise, I like the idea. How would You explain the phenomenom emersion-wise? Does being dropped in the dirt with a corpse on top instantly break an item?

Explanation wise, you are in deep trouble as soon as you turn away from drop all anyway. It just isn't explainable Razz

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Alternative to Drop All - Reduced Drop[message #308775]

Tue, 07 August 2012 17:48

sorca_2

Messages:202
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA

Dep must be referring to this in the INI editor:

USE_EXTERNALIZED_ENEMY_ITEM_DROPS
0 = Use default drop item system for enemies (and possibly also militia).
1 = Use the new drop item system from XML-Files (EnemyWeaponDrops.xml, EnemyAmmoDrops.xml, EnemyArmourDrops.xml, EnemyExplosiveDrops.xml, EnemyMiscDrops.xml) for enemies (and militia).

INFO: This drop system only takes effect, if you have not choosen "Enemies Drop All Items" in the start new game screen.

We can indeed edit those xml files quite conveniently with the XML Editor under Inventories/Drop Rates. The defaults are 15% for all weapons, 50% for all ammo, 15% for armor, 25% for explosives/grenades, and 15% for other stuff like melee weapons, medkits, etc.

So, "drop all" would be the equivalent of setting all those to 100%. A logical middle ground might be to do a "double rate" scheme as follows:
Guns 30%
Armor 30%
Explosives 50%
Melee/Misc 30%

I would leave ammo at 50%, up to 66% tops. Most of it is more trouble than it's worth in terms of sector inventory management anyway.

Honestly, I wonder if it would make sense for the above INI setting to include preset-schemes. Like so:

0 = Use default drop item system for enemies (and possibly also militia).
1 = Use the new drop item system from XML-Files (EnemyWeaponDrops.xml, EnemyAmmoDrops.xml, EnemyArmourDrops.xml, EnemyExplosiveDrops.xml, EnemyMiscDrops.xml) for enemies (and militia).
2 = Double drop rate (example:  weapons drop 30% of the time instead of 15%)
3 = Triple drop rate (example:  weapons drop 45% of the time instead of 15%)
4 = Drop all (all items drop all the time)

That would make it pretty easy to change rates.

[Updated on: Tue, 07 August 2012 17:57] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant 1st Class

Previous Topic:	Random disabilities weather like
Next Topic:	Some slight requests

Goto Forum:

-=] Back to Top [=-

Current Time: Wed Jun 17 08:23:51 GMT+3 2026

Total time taken to generate the page: 1.69974 seconds