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Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355024]

Fri, 21 September 2018 23:57

SecretStamos

Messages:29
Registered:October 2015

Hi guys!

Just a really minor point here. Something I've always found a little interesting in JA2 is how effective guns are against a foe engaging you in close combat. Obviously the range is point blank, but (I feel) it doesn't fully capture the difficulty of a close combat situation. It's borderline effortless.

My solution is if the target is struck with a melee attack without possessing a melee weapon (knife, club, fist, bayonet) in their active hand they could suffer from being unprepared. The following could occur to them:
1. Accuracy reductions
2. AP reduction
3. Chance to drop their item
4. Chance to be knocked prone

Perhaps some traits could boost these chances (offensively) and others could boost them (defensively).

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to fully invalidate firing into a melee attacker as a tactic, but I'd like it to be much less of a safe, dominant strategy.

Let me know what you think!

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Private 1st Class

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355026 is a reply to message #355024]

Sat, 22 September 2018 11:45

silversurfer

Messages:2787
Registered:May 2009

All of these points are already implemented and you can even take a gun from somebody if you are strong enough.

Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355027 is a reply to message #355026]

Sat, 22 September 2018 16:16

gougluinn

Messages:383
Registered:September 2018

silversurfer wrote on Sat, 22 September 2018 11:45

you can even take a gun from somebody if you are strong enough.

but a bug was occurred for me. first, enemy run towards me, took (stole) my weapon then i interrupted, shot & killed him. retook my weapon but sniper, laser scopes and silencer (which were attached on the weapon before enemy stole) were missing. hokeypokey big grin

had to reload last save.

[Updated on: Sat, 22 September 2018 16:17]

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Master Sergeant

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355037 is a reply to message #355026]

Sat, 22 September 2018 21:34

SecretStamos

Messages:29
Registered:October 2015

Maybe my point is that I don't feel they're noticble enough. I've found it's just a lot easier to shoot an enemy attacking me in melee than it is to fight back. It's too decisive.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355042 is a reply to message #355037]

Sat, 22 September 2018 23:26

silversurfer

Messages:2787
Registered:May 2009

Honestly, if someone attacks you with a melee weapon and you are holding a gun it is the easiest and most effective way to just shoot the attacker instead of putting away the gun and trying to find something to beat/stab him. Or as they say "Never appear with a sword at a gunfight..." ;-)

Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355048 is a reply to message #355042]

Sun, 23 September 2018 16:54

townltu

Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here

silversurfer wrote on Sat, 22 September 2018 23:26

...
Or as they say "Never appear with a sword at a gunfight, unless your name is Razor or Scully" ;-)

ftfy :p

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Master Sergeant

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355049 is a reply to message #355042]

Sun, 23 September 2018 16:58

SecretStamos

Messages:29
Registered:October 2015

I'm speaking as if you had both a knife and a pistol in your hands. The actual readying of the weapons is already accounted for with AP loss. (you also do not need to put a gun away to use a knife)

There are actually classes on how to defend against a melee attacker when you have a firearm. Especially if they're beating down on you, have a knife, or are grappling with you, you are going to have a difficult time lining up a snap shot.

With anything carbine length or longer, you'd have to overpower them before you could reliably land a shot.

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Private 1st Class

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355053 is a reply to message #355049]

Sun, 23 September 2018 18:55

silversurfer

Messages:2787
Registered:May 2009

Sure, you could beat the opponent with the butt stock of your gun but (unless I'm missing something) we don't even have animations for that. So the only thing we can do is shoot or put away the gun and use a melee weapon instead.

Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355054 is a reply to message #355053]

Sun, 23 September 2018 19:26

SecretStamos

Messages:29
Registered:October 2015

We could use some animations for a blunt attack. We have clubs in the game in the form of the extendable baton and a tonfa currently but I believe they use the fists attack animation. I know AIMINAS has quite an array of blunt weapons too.
(I would be capable of making those animations if needed angel

)

You can always put your gun in your offhand, and use your fists if you do not have the AP to spare to draw a knife. But melee attacks cost 16 AP, so it's often cheaper to just shoot given you have the point blank range advantage (which makes it almost impossible to miss, and is the crux of my issue with the current system).

[Updated on: Sun, 23 September 2018 19:28]

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Private 1st Class

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #355065 is a reply to message #355054]

Mon, 24 September 2018 08:19

Colt .45 Peacemaker

Messages:430
Registered:June 2016
Location: Norway

Stamos, when you are prone aiming with your beautiful M40 and a sadomasochistic moron tries to run in your face to stab or clobber you, just pull your Scar-H and fire a burst at his legs, then finish him, without getting up. Getting up makes you play his game, not to mention that by standing up, you present a nice target for his friends. As Silversurfer said : Never bring a knife to a gunfight. That's why firearms got invented in the first place and before that, spears and bows. Ranged fighting FTW!

[Updated on: Tue, 25 September 2018 01:49]

Nipson anomimata mi monan opsin

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Master Sergeant

Re: Gameplay Adjustment: Shooting in Melee[message #356339 is a reply to message #355065]

Fri, 04 January 2019 04:48

buuface

Messages:165
Registered:October 2011

I think that melee/h2h/martial arts experts should be more difficult to kill with guns in a h2h situation. They would perhaps know some techniques which allow them to avoid/re-direct the opponents gun as well as possibly disarming him

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Staff Sergeant

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