Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333711] Sat, 14 June 2014 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne is currently offline Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1448
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
not to the brothell but to the Hillbillies

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Sergeant Major
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333718] Sat, 14 June 2014 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Doable - would require keeping track of prisoner gender. Hard part would be the selling itself, as prisoners are no items... Best way would be through the facilities menu. Can all be done relatively easy...

However, why?

Also, srsly?

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333720] Sat, 14 June 2014 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:693
Registered:July 2008
Flugente
srsly?

Nope

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First Sergeant
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333722] Sun, 15 June 2014 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne is currently offline Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1448
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Flugente
Doable - would require keeping track of prisoner gender. Hard part would be the selling itself, as prisoners are no items... Best way would be through the facilities menu. Can all be done relatively easy...

However, why?

Also, srsly?


for not having to slaughter that poor farmers "sniff"

at least not having to slaughter them at once.

Could this be done via escort female prisoner?

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Sergeant Major
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333724] Sun, 15 June 2014 15:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Escort? Prisoners don't 'exist' except when one is in a tactical sector. What you ask would require giving them travel orders and whatnot. Ugh.

The Hicks' quest is also one of the very few quests where the player has to make a morally questionable choice - do we spare the Hicks, and suffer less loyalty (which equals less money), or do we massacre an entire family for our personal gains (and lose a valuable source of food). I sure as hell won't provide a no-drawback solution to that one.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333732] Mon, 16 June 2014 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne is currently offline Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1448
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
You left the way to solve the prob by

marrying a female merc (e.g. Fox) to them

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Sergeant Major
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333747] Mon, 16 June 2014 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hm? Yes, of course. But my point still stands Smile

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333756] Tue, 17 June 2014 11:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne is currently offline Gorro der Grüne

 
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Gorro der Gr

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Sergeant Major
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #334153] Fri, 11 July 2014 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
In r7327 and GameDir r2065, the following changes were made:
  • http://i57.tinypic.com/2mo1puc.png
    One can now select what type of prisoners a merc should interrogate primarily. This allows you to interrogate an officer first, without having to empty all troops and elites first.
  • Generals are now a prisoner type of their own. They cannot defect to your team - they won't turn into militia or so - but they yield a substantial ransom, should you be lucky. They also have a high chance of telling you where other generals are, if they give you info.
  • Interrogation points both required and generated have been drastically reduced. simply because it allows me to cut the size of the required variables :compcuppa:
  • fixes for bugs nobody found :luckystrike:
  • This does not break savegame compatibility (it is a new savegame version though). For what may seem highly dubious to anybody not reading the code, loading and old savegame with this will reset all artillery timers. And all underground tanks have been removed, though I highly doubt anybody had those :et4:
And with this, I am off to bring sickness and disease to Arulco :grimreaper: :pitchfork:

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #335888] Thu, 18 September 2014 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim is currently offline grim

 
Messages:344
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
In dev ver 7492, i have a problem concerning the militia numbers in the city description box. It seems to appear partly in hexa or something:

Screenshot


Edit : Just understood these were A-dmins R-egulars E-lites O-fficers G-enerals

Nevermind Very Happy

[Updated on: Thu, 18 September 2014 01:18] by Moderator

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Master Sergeant
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #335890] Thu, 18 September 2014 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hu? 17 prisoners, 5 capacity - 0 admins, 14 regulars, 3 Elites, 0 Officers and 0 Generals imprisoned. Seems okay to me. I didn't want to use several lines for this, thus the letters :secret:

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #335891] Thu, 18 September 2014 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim is currently offline grim

 
Messages:344
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Yes i'm sorry, i've been through the entire thread several times and last info i checked on this panel was that :
http://i57.tinypic.com/a5kboo.png
Seing letters and numbers felt wrong to me at glance Wink

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Master Sergeant
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337410] Fri, 31 October 2014 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bkgmjo

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2014
First off, thanks for awesome additions. Thought about making my cash with prisoners, but discovered this:

http://i61.tinypic.com/dxbyih.png

Also, pepper spray works wonders against terrorists, hicks and the like, as they seem to not react until losing a hit point (sometimes they do, not sure when this happens). So you can basically knock them out before the fight even begins.

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Private
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337427] Sat, 01 November 2014 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hi bkgmjo, welcome to the pit!

Hu. Never seen that before, not sure why that would happen... which exe revision are you playing with? Does that always happen, or only sometimes? Do you, perhaps, have a savegame from directly before that incident?

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337432] Sat, 01 November 2014 07:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bkgmjo

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2014
Thanks for the welcome,

Says version 1.137609 (2014 official build) 14.10.24 (1.13 downloaded 3 days ago and installed over a fresh Gold Version install)

Sadly I don't have a savegame, but it happens every time my mercs interrogate. I have several such entries in the cash log.

I have a few self-modded items in the game, but I doubt some extra LBE items could cause this. All prisoner-related entries in INIs are untouched. However, to test the new features I cheated training points needed and set BSE-points to max to have all Mercs on 100 on all values and lvl 10. No cheats were executed ingame.

Game is on Pro, Tons of Guns, Old Skills, new Attachment System, Bobby Ray Both Max, Progress Normal, SciFi.

The only prison I owned was in Cambria and prisoners were lowest class(surrender) and elites(handcuffed). As somewhere I read equipment plays a role: Both interrogating mercs had a G3A3 with Match Ammo, no armor, NVG IV, a bit of ammo and headphones and a bag full of loot from the last fight. Skills do no seem to influence it, same effect with Night(x2), Throw(x2), Electro/Lock mercs. Fully camoed.

Let me know if I can do anything else to help solve this.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 November 2014 08:16] by Moderator

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Private
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337433] Sat, 01 November 2014 08:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:693
Registered:July 2008
I'd say "old skills" is the culprit.

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First Sergeant
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337434] Sat, 01 November 2014 08:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bkgmjo

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2014
Any reason why you'd say that?

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Private
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337440] Sat, 01 November 2014 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:693
Registered:July 2008
Old systems are rarely used so we rarely get bug reports about them.

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First Sergeant
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337453] Sat, 01 November 2014 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
It seems extremely unlikely that traits would have any influence on this, as they do not influence the amount of money one can receive.

A savegame of the situation would be helpful, I havent been able to reproduce the issue.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337472] Sat, 01 November 2014 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bkgmjo

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2014
I tried to narrow it down and got this:

http://i.imgur.com/srtcXOz.png

If you ask me, that's some kind of strings file or string lookup error.

The INI does not seem to have any effects on this, I tried with the original settings and got the exact same results. However, here the savegame if it helps. Removed all items I made myself from the game, hope that makes it loadable. http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=07480049338950643116

Edit: Looking more closely at other strings: I get lots of "Betriebskosten" entries, which should actually be sold from sector inventory things and what was labeled as "L

[Updated on: Sat, 01 November 2014 23:45] by Moderator

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Private
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337473] Sun, 02 November 2014 02:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Indeed. There was a missing string in German/Dutch/Italian files, which caused this. No idea how that happened (or when, since the missing string was very old). Fixed in r7632.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337475] Sun, 02 November 2014 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bkgmjo

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2014
So, since this got solved and I am not asking too much... could you maybe add a block to handcuffing NPCs like terrorists, The General, Conrad and others you cannot really imprison? Asking because the only thing that happens is when you activate time compression the victim has freed itself and attacks again. You can however also use this as glitch that allows very quick loyalty rising by capturing them over and over again after 5 mins of time compression as it counts as won fight.

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Private
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337476] Sun, 02 November 2014 05:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Fair enough, that shouldn't have been possible in the first place... fixed in r7634. Keep spotting, soldier!

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337478] Sun, 02 November 2014 06:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bkgmjo

 
Messages:6
Registered:October 2014
Hah, don't tell me such a thing. I play games to discover every bit, not to win them Razz

Is there some kind of bugtracker I didn't find yet though? Not sure if posting everything on forums is the right way and I'm not sure who is who in the pit yet and responsible for each element.

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Private
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #337482] Sun, 02 November 2014 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Posting on the forums is the right way.

2014 Stable bugthread

Normal bug thread

If the bug is feature-specific, post under the feature's thread, as you did here.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #339758 is a reply to message #337482] Sun, 01 March 2015 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As of r7763 and GameDir r2215,


  • Civilians can finally be captured. Either by handcuffing or by asking them to surrender. To remove an obvious exploit, this is only possible if they are hostile to you.
  • A civilian's faction needs to have <fCanBeCaptured>1</fCanBeCaptured> in CivGroupNames.xml in order to be capturable (is that a word?). In stock this is set for the Kingpin, Hicks and Warden factions. Modders might want to adjust this (*looks in wil473's direction*)
  • Civilians can be easily interrogated. They cannot give you info on the enemy (because how would they know anything?). They can defect, but we can't jut allow any random inbred farmer to simply join the ranks of our most glorious revolution, can we now? They need at least a refreshing course - they will join as volunteers.
  • It should now be impossible to handcuff a profile-based NPC (Conrad, General, Mike etc... basically anyone with a 'talking face' falls under this). These people cannot be captured. It would be nice to later visit them in prison, but that is almost guaranteed to cause horrible things to quests.
  • If the enemy team has profile-based NPC members in combat (Mike for the enemy, Darren & Daryl for the Hicks, Kingpin's people for the Kingpin faction etc...), then asking them to surrender won't work. These evil leaders simply wont allow it! So if you want to make prisoners, remove their leaders first...
  • Tanks cannot be captured as well (our handcuffs are too small!). as long as a tank is present, the AI will never surrender.
  • As the facility overview for prisons was confusing (people mistook the abbreviations for Hex code), this might be more clear:
    http://i.imgur.com/fX8nRhv.png
  • If you have no prison, you have to let any prisoners go - but now up to a third of them might join your volunteers. Consider it a consolation prize.

    Also note that it is now thinkable (though unwise) to shanghai your entire militia. You need volunteers, and technically, conquering cities and enslaving the population also gives you that... suprised
    You need to set CAN_TRUE_CIVILIANS_BECOME_HOSTILE to TRUE for that though, set fCanBeCaptured to 1 for faction 0 and attack each civilian all the time. Global loyalty (and thus income) will drop to rock-bottom... but yes, you can now have a militia that is made entirely out of enslaved civilians you beat up and caught suprised
    I consider this my good deed of the night angel

[Updated on: Sun, 01 March 2015 02:55]




I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #340650 is a reply to message #339758] Tue, 21 April 2015 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
If, say, some modder were to create a gigantic prison map, then there might be more than 16 cells in there. As I don't feel like adding a gazillion stupid tags, I've instead made the tags in SectorNames.xml a bit better - there can now be and infinite number of prison rooms (well, limited to 2^16 - 1 really due to room numbers, but... yeah).

Old usage:
...
<usPrisonRoomNumber00>41</usPrisonRoomNumber00>
<usPrisonRoomNumber01>42</usPrisonRoomNumber01>
<usPrisonRoomNumber02>44</usPrisonRoomNumber02>
<usPrisonRoomNumber03>45</usPrisonRoomNumber03>
...


New usage:
...
<usPrisonRoomNumber>41</usPrisonRoomNumber>
<usPrisonRoomNumber>42</usPrisonRoomNumber>
<usPrisonRoomNumber>44</usPrisonRoomNumber>
<usPrisonRoomNumber>45</usPrisonRoomNumber>
...
Looks similar, but saves a lot of lines (why I had 16 different tags in the first place I don't know. Me being stupid guess).

Using a room multiple times is possible. Prisoners are distributed on the rooms in the order the rooms are in the xml, starting from the 2nd room, with the order repeating itself.
Prisoner bodytypes are in the order of REGMALE, BIGMALE, STOCKYMALE, REGFEMALE, REGMALE, ..., just in case you want to have strict gender separation in your prisons.

This code change is active as of r7826 and GameDir r2234. The changed Map/SectorNames.xml is required due to the changed tags ( but as nobody would ever be so careless as to use a new exe without the correct xml data, this will surely not be a problem angel ).



I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #340657 is a reply to message #340650] Wed, 22 April 2015 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Oh oh, I see problems coming for all mods that alter maps. Players won't be able to use the current SCI anymore and if the modder updates SectorNames.xml it won't work with the stable exe anymore. In the end they will have to provide a stable and dev version of the mod.
I had this problem already with facility type "STRATEGIC_MILITIA_MOVEMENT" in WF maps mod which crashed the stable exe so I had to remove it. Time to drop stable support altogether...



Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #340891 is a reply to message #340657] Tue, 05 May 2015 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fightcancer is currently offline fightcancer

 
Messages:214
Registered:February 2005
Location: USA
Using the newest stable release of 1.13, for some reason Flo cannot successfully interrogate prisoners with a Leadership of 50. Why is that? She keeps trying in D5, San Mona, but she's been doing it for 2 days now and nothing happens. There is only 1 prisoner. Thanks!

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #340892 is a reply to message #340891] Tue, 05 May 2015 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
If she's on the assignment, tow numbers should show on her face in strategic: The first is her interrogation points, the second the number of prisoners. What is the first number?
Also, having a threatening gun in her primary hand is an easy way to boost her number.



I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #340896 is a reply to message #340892] Wed, 06 May 2015 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fightcancer is currently offline fightcancer

 
Messages:214
Registered:February 2005
Location: USA
OK, I'll put a powerful gun in her hand.

EDIT: Her number is 0/1. She is holding a Colt M4A1. What stat(s) raise(s) it please?

[Updated on: Wed, 06 May 2015 07:45]

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #340903 is a reply to message #340896] Wed, 06 May 2015 23:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hm. Hmmm. Found the issue, its rather.. unfortunate.
The interrogation points for a merc are derived as follows (pseudocode):
base interrogation points = 20 + 3 * level + 0.5 * leadership;

threatenvalue = soldiers threatening effectiveness * usApproachFactorThreaten * (100 + background threaten effectiveness modifier) / 100

interrogation points = (base interrogation points * threatenvalue  * (100 + background interrogation effectiveness modifier)) / 100;

final interrogation points = (interrogation points * prison interrogation performance modifier) / (700000);

final interrogation points can then still be lowered by fatigue
The problem in this case (Flo) is that her usApproachFactorThreaten, which is read from MercProfiles.xml, is 0. This is bad, because as a result, the interrogation points are then 0 - and no training will ever change that. This value is also fix once a campaign has been started - changing the xml value wont affect an ongoing game.

There are a few other cases where this issue might also come up. Simply speaking, some of the original profile values from Sirtech are just bogus... in this case they specified that Flo could never, never have a chance of being any good in any 'threaten' check.

It's rather reasonable to change that, but that won't help you here - your Flo is completely unable to interrogate anyone ever.



I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #340904 is a reply to message #340903] Thu, 07 May 2015 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fightcancer is currently offline fightcancer

 
Messages:214
Registered:February 2005
Location: USA
Thanks. I appreciate the info! happy

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #341145 is a reply to message #312705] Sun, 24 May 2015 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fightcancer is currently offline fightcancer

 
Messages:214
Registered:February 2005
Location: USA
Is there a prison in or near Grumm? Thanks.

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #341146 is a reply to message #341145] Sun, 24 May 2015 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Using stock maps and stock xmls, main prisons are in Tixa & Alma, small town prisons are in Cambria, Chitzena and San Mona, and there is the 'secret' special prison. But nothing in or near Grumm - you can simply define that to be in Facilities.xml however.


I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #341149 is a reply to message #341146] Mon, 25 May 2015 02:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fightcancer is currently offline fightcancer

 
Messages:214
Registered:February 2005
Location: USA
Thank you Flugente! happy

I have trouble with the interrogation process. Speck has been assigned to interrogation for weeks in Chitzena, B2. However, nothing happens. His portrait shows 37/14.

Same thing with Maddog in D5 with 43/9.

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #341166 is a reply to message #341149] Mon, 25 May 2015 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
That sounds very odd. Can you provide a savegame + ini?


I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #341290 is a reply to message #341166] Mon, 01 June 2015 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol is currently offline smeagol

 
Messages:2705
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Just took 3 guys as prisoners and sent them to an adjacent sector with a Farm prison (basically a new facility which allows to interrogate people outside of a town sector). Problem is, the prisoners start a riot immediately (and also vanish from the map entirely it seems).

Had no mercs in the prison sector, but the grace period for prisoners to start a riot seems to low, I don't even have a chance to travel to the sector (and the enemies basically are instantaneously teleported there). In the early game you can't afford to keep mercs back to guard empty sectors and awaiting PoWs there... I'd really see a slightly increased grace period for prisons (6 h would be good, before prisoners could even start a riot). That should usually give enough time to simulate the prisoners arriving there at the same time as mercs.

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Lieutenant

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #341297 is a reply to message #341290] Mon, 01 June 2015 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
There is no grace period.
Every full hour, each prison is evaluated on whether a riot starts. This happens guaranteed if there are either no guards at all, or can happen the prisoner strength exceeds guard strength and prisoner number exceeds prison limit.



I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Captain

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #341301 is a reply to message #312705] Tue, 02 June 2015 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
smeagol is currently offline smeagol

 
Messages:2705
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Is it possible to set the game on pause, when you successfully interrogated prisoner? I think it`s very easy to miss gained information if the game clock keeps running. speechless

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Lieutenant

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