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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #319378] Sat, 11 May 2013 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
krux
- Anyway, shotguns drain stamina a lot! Maybe could tweak that a little?
- AP cost for pulling the hammer on large pistols seems a bit high.
Will be addressed in the next update. I was working on a method to circumvent the transformation crash with mag adapters, but recently Flugente has turned his attention to it and might fix it. That would make all the xml changes obsolete, so further work is halted.
Quote:
- the foregrip might be a bit overpowered.
How so? Statwise it just gained 5 PercentReadyTimeAPReduction and lost 35 PercentMaxCounterForce.

Cyborg
I'm very happy you are able to use my Exel, could you tell me what formula you are using for the x/y recoil values?
I used the values that the v2 formula in the second row generated, with some tweaks like increased recoil for weapons with suboptimal stock like the AK-47 or SIG MP41/44. I might also increase the recoil of the 7.62mm lmgs in the future, as there isn't much difference to the 5.56mm variants.
Quote:
Still early days so won't comment on balance, except suppression seems very powerful given the prevalence of auto weapons. I'll play with stock values for a bit, but will probably tone it down soon.
I must admit i'm biased, as i was playing solely on insane, so i'm willing to decrease the default value. Suggestions from anyone? Stock 75% is too mild...
Quote:
Regarding IMP item choice, I would lose the folding stocks and maybe consider adding a low level bolt rifle (WWII is fine) for the sniper speciality. Also maybe add in some higher quality pistols instead of the MP (and give auto weapons a decent SMG instead).
The first bolt rifles appear at coolness 3, that's too good for cheap IMPs. Not every major trait (combination) will result in an additional good weapon, so everyone gets an automatic weapon with sufficient marksmanship as safety net instead of a weak pistol. Is the MP5N no decent weapon early on?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #319541] Mon, 13 May 2013 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Strohmann
krux

the foregrip might be a bit overpowered.
How so? Statwise it just gained 5 PercentReadyTimeAPReduction and lost 35 PercentMaxCounterForce.


I'm just basing this on that my mercs with foregrips outperform everyone else, but it is problably caused by other factors then.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320287] Thu, 23 May 2013 10:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:436
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

Cannot understand which last version if 1.13 will work with this overhaul?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320301] Thu, 23 May 2013 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Wait some hours, i'm working on the last steps for a new update compatible with the lastest unstable stuff.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320428] Fri, 24 May 2013 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
New Update: *Link*
[color:#FF0000]Warning: No Safegame Compatibility![/color] Start a new game or else you will experience item clutter.
  • Item transformations while a mag adapter was attached to a weapon lead to a game crash up to this point. Circumvention for the problem: adding a mag adapter to a weapon now initiates an attachment combo merge, that creates a new item. Use the item transformation on the new created weapon to separate the adapter again. Warning: do both steps only if the mag is empty or else you can loose the the loaded ammo!
  • Pistols: unified to 3 aimlevels and global decrease of ap costs.
  • Shotguns: lowered ubImpact to decrease the excessive stamina drain, compensated elsewhere, so the final damage should stay roughly the same.
  • GunChoices_Enemy_Elite.xml: lowered the coolness of the weapons they get at each progress level. Combined with the natural EquipmentModifier-Bonus they also get they should end up roughly with the same weapon pool regular soldiers have access to on each progress level. If you don't like that, overwrite their data with the files in EnemyGunChoices.xml.
  • Fixed some mismatches between spoken lines and text files of Spooky.
  • SectorNames.xml (Alrulco Revisited): usPrisonRoomNumbers corrected for the new maps (Take prisoners feature). Overhauled sWaterType distribution; i need feedback if i was too generous in the northern part of the map.
  • Addressing the critique, that sneaking at game start is too difficult: added coolness 1 uniform and leggings that provide camouflage, but no armor protection.
  • Since the scope mode feature still isn't fixed properly (lack of penalties if under a scope's optimal range), i reverted back to the old system; use item transformations to toggle between different magnifications on high power scopes.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320437] Fri, 24 May 2013 02:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cyborg

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe
Strohmann


Quote:
Still early days so won't comment on balance, except suppression seems very powerful given the prevalence of auto weapons. I'll play with stock values for a bit, but will probably tone it down soon.
I must admit i'm biased, as i was playing solely on insane, so i'm willing to decrease the default value. Suggestions from anyone? Stock 75% is too mild...


I went with 125%, seems to work ok.


Strohmann

Quote:
Regarding IMP item choice, I would lose the folding stocks and maybe consider adding a low level bolt rifle (WWII is fine) for the sniper speciality. Also maybe add in some higher quality pistols instead of the MP (and give auto weapons a decent SMG instead).
The first bolt rifles appear at coolness 3, that's too good for cheap IMPs. Not every major trait (combination) will result in an additional good weapon, so everyone gets an automatic weapon with sufficient marksmanship as safety net instead of a weak pistol. Is the MP5N no decent weapon early on?


With the MRK in the high 70's I only got Steyr TMP's for everyone. I got some Rugers early as pickups but the Ironsights (upgraded ones, good idea BTW) arent's working even at 15 tiles or so and max aim. Found a M1 carbine early and that's ok with the WWII 4x scope I started with.

Wasn't happy with the above so I've been playing around in the CTH ini, f.e. making ironsights a bit longer ranged and upping the importance of MRK while nerfing EXP for the base calculation. I hope this will also help with the mid-end game power creep.

As as aside, how can I edit your ItemchoiceXML? I tried pointing the editor to the NCTH folder but it's obviously not finding all the files it needs and throws up errors. Should I just drop it into the default 1.13 folder?

[Updated on: Fri, 24 May 2013 03:10] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320440] Fri, 24 May 2013 03:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cyborg

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe
Strohmann
New Update: *Link*
[color:#FF0000]Warning: No Safegame Compatibly![/color] Start a new game or else you will experience item clutter.
  • Item transformations while a mag adapter was attached to a weapon lead to a game crash up to this point. Circumvention for the problem: adding a mag adapter to a weapon now initiates an attachment combo merge, that creates a new item. Use the item transformation on the new created weapon to separate the adapter again. Warning: do both steps only if the mag is empty or else you can loose the the loaded ammo!
  • Pistols: unified to 3 aimlevels and global decrease of ap costs.
  • Shotguns: lowered ubImpact to decrease the excessive stamina drain, compensated elsewhere, so the final damage should stay roughly the same.
  • GunChoices_Enemy_Elite.xml: lowered the coolness of the weapons they get at each progress level. Combined with the natural EquipmentModifier-Bonus they also get they should end up roughly with the same weapon pool regular soldiers have access to on each progress level. If you don't like that, overwrite their data with the files in EnemyGunChoices.xml.
  • Fixed some mismatches between spoken lines and text files of Spooky.
  • SectorNames.xml (Alrulco Revisited): usPrisonRoomNumbers corrected for the new maps (Take prisoners feature). Overhauled sWaterType distribution; i need feedback if i was too generous in the northern part of the map.
  • Addressing the critique, that sneaking at game start is too difficult: added coolness 1 uniform and leggings that provide camouflage, but no armor protection.
  • Since the scope mode feature still isn't fixed properly (lack of penalties if under a scope's optimal range), i reverted back to the old system; use item transformations to toggle between different magnifications on high power scopes.


Great. Should I first update with the latest unstable SCI?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320484] Fri, 24 May 2013 04:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Quote:
I got some Rugers early as pickups but the Ironsights (upgraded ones, good idea BTW) arent's working even at 15 tiles or so and max aim.
Really? I started a fresh game with default settings, and got this:
http://i.imgur.com/Lsh7rTk.png

Sniper, Aperture Sights, prone, Lv.1, Mrk/Dex/Wis 85
at 15, then 25 tiles. Looks very good to me given these conditions.

Quote:
As as aside, how can I edit your ItemchoiceXML? I tried pointing the editor to the NCTH folder but it's obviously not finding all the files it needs and throws up errors. Should I just drop it into the default 1.13 folder?

I edit everything by hand, as the editor has sometimes the habit of eating newly introduced tags and other issues. If you want to use it nevertheless, create a new folder where you copy+drop the contents of stock 1.13 and then my stuff last to overwrite everything. Then direct the editor to it. Finally copy the files you modified back into my stuff.

Quote:
Should I first update with the latest unstable SCI?

It's all in the opening post(s). Aside from the current latest exe at that point there should be no overlap between stock 1.13 and my stuff, so the order doesn't matter.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320523] Fri, 24 May 2013 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cyborg

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe
Strohmann
Quote:
I got some Rugers early as pickups but the Ironsights (upgraded ones, good idea BTW) arent's working even at 15 tiles or so and max aim.
Really? I started a fresh game with default settings, and got this:
http://i.imgur.com/Lsh7rTk.png

Sniper, Aperture Sights, prone, Lv.1, Mrk/Dex/Wis 85
at 15, then 25 tiles. Looks very good to me given these conditions.



That actually looks quite reasonable....but I'll never have those kind of stats until late game.

My Merks, with something like 77/77/82, shooting (supported) from windows will get something like the second gif at 15 tiles (max aimlevel) and mostly, like 80%, miss.

Stats are probably more influential than I thought, or is the sniper trait that powerful...

Anyway I'll try some things out.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 May 2013 12:14] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320723] Sat, 25 May 2013 03:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cyborg

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe
Strohmann
Is the MP5N no decent weapon early on?


Just noticed that the Mp5N is only for AutoWeapons trait.

Also I just noticed that there's a M1 carbine for Hvy Weapons trait. Might want to give that to the sniper since it also starts with the WWII 4x scope.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320728] Sat, 25 May 2013 06:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
That's exactly what i not wanted to do^^. Either a weaker scoped weapon with marksman or a better one with a scope you can't immediately use, the choice is yours.

The M1 Carbine is just intended as platform to fire rifle grenades without handing out a standalone grenade launcher for only heavy weapons chosen.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #320790] Sat, 25 May 2013 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cyborg

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe
Strohmann
That's exactly what i not wanted to do^^. Either a weaker scoped weapon with marksman or a better one with a scope you can't immediately use, the choice is yours.

The M1 Carbine is just intended as platform to fire rifle grenades without handing out a standalone grenade launcher for only heavy weapons chosen.


Now I get it. Didn't notice this since I found a M79 in Omerta, so the M1 automatically went to my sniper for use with WWII 4x scope.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321067] Tue, 28 May 2013 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Strohmann

  • Since the scope mode feature still isn't fixed properly (lack of penalties if under a scope's optimal range), i reverted back to the old system; use item transformations to toggle between different magnifications on high power scopes.


Could you please expand a bit on this. I'm not really aware of how the old system works. I remember from my own dabbling in xml tweaking that the "too close" penalty didn't seem to really work.

I like the idea of having it as a transformation though, then there will be a small AP penalty to switch modes. Switching scope modes was always too flexible IMO.

Also, a small transformation bug (not latest version): Combine a reflex sight and an ACOG, and then revert it, and you will get a different sight instead of the reflex.

[Updated on: Wed, 29 May 2013 17:22] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321094] Tue, 28 May 2013 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Thanks, but the attachment combo merge ACOG + Reflex Sight RMR -> ACOG Combo is no longer present in newer updates.

Basicly, every scope has an optimal distance, calculated NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE x SCOPE_RANGE_MULTIPLIER x . If you fire at targets under this range, you *should* experience penalties, growing with proximity to the target.

http://i.imgur.com/qHV9OAi.png
Upper row USE_SCOPE_MODES = TRUE,
lower row USE_SCOPE_MODES = FALSE; at 28/14/8/7 tiles (revision 1678, 6100 exe).

So what were some of the undesireable results?
- you always would want to slap the scope with the highest possible magnification on the weapon
- iron sights are worse than even the highest magnifying scope at close range
- the scope modes feature makes itself kinda obsolete; when scopes are nearly always best there little need to toggle at all

Note that in the old system there is this weird jump from 8 tiles into the NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE 7 tiles, that also shouldn't be the case imo (continuous penalties would be preferable).
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321139] Wed, 29 May 2013 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I have a hard time reading anything conclusive from those pictures, but I agree that the points listed are undesirable. In vanilla it is always good to slap a scope on everything, and any merc can become a good sniper, which I find boring. Using just iron sights should be a good option for close combat (which your mod does a good job realizing). In my ideal game scopes should be all about specialization, good in just one particular situation, but highly penalized otherwise. With the current way this is very hard to balance. Maybe Flugente might be interested in looking into this system if you ask him?

And a small suggestion for your mod, maybe foregrips could give a small penalty to the aim cap (with a tiny bonus to base aim). You rarely see grips on long range weapons (I think?) so I suspect it's not optimal for sniping and mainly for close quarters. It also makes it a more interesting choice whether to use them for all roles. Feel free to ignore if it doesn't make sense with reality or your design goals Wink
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321147] Wed, 29 May 2013 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
krux
I have a hard time reading anything conclusive from those pictures [...]
First row shows, that a scope, even with fixed magnification like the ACOG 4x used for the pictures, automatically adjusts magnification to the current distance (inner circle shrinks and changes colour as the targets gets closer). In comparison the third pictures shows a smaller and brighter inner circle than the fourth; so even at 8 tiles a scope has a better performance than iron sights.

In the lower row the red numerical magnification, the growth and darkening of the inner circle indicate the intended penalties of the scope.

Quote:
Maybe Flugente might be interested in looking into this system if you ask him?
Flugente
Nah. I dislike coding NCTH. [...] Sounds like its not much work, but I'm not interested to find out.
Flugente
I think Headrock is the only one that wields the necessary authority to make changes that are widely accepted anyway.

krux
And a small suggestion for your mod, maybe foregrips could give a small penalty to the aim cap (with a tiny bonus to base aim). You rarely see grips on long range weapons (I think?) so I suspect it's not optimal for sniping and mainly for close quarters. It also makes it a more interesting choice whether to use them for all roles.
Going prone + a bipod give better bonuses than a foregrip while beeing more restrictive. I see no need to nerf foregrips even more.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321189] Thu, 30 May 2013 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Ah, ok. I was a little confused by the different magnification factors in each picture, but I realize now that you used the same scope for all tests and this is just how the game displays the optimal mag factor to target.

Edit: Tried the new version. To be honest I think I prefer the new design with scope mode set to false. That feature made scopes too flexible which wasn't really what I wanted, or what you seem to go for.

Looking through the starting equipment at AIM I couldn't find any scope that can switch magnification factor through item-transformations. I wouldn't mind if some scopes had a few modes you could switch between (for 20+ AP or something).

[Updated on: Fri, 31 May 2013 12:06] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321784] Fri, 21 June 2013 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2039
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Just wondering if this is compatible with the latest 6116 release from Derpi Wink


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321787] Fri, 21 June 2013 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2800
Registered:May 2009
Strohmann

Basicly, every scope has an optimal distance, calculated NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE x SCOPE_RANGE_MULTIPLIER x . If you fire at targets under this range, you *should* experience penalties, growing with proximity to the target.

http://i.imgur.com/qHV9OAi.png
Upper row USE_SCOPE_MODES = TRUE,
lower row USE_SCOPE_MODES = FALSE; at 28/14/8/7 tiles (revision 1678, 6100 exe).


Thank you for those pics. They illustrate the problem perfectly and I already found at least one point in the code which looks like the root cause for this. As long as the scope modes option is active the whole code for penalty calculation is skipped. I don't think that this was intended. Wink

I will see how I can fix this. I have to understand Flugente's scope modes first.

Strohmann

Note that in the old system there is this weird jump from 8 tiles into the NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE 7 tiles, that also shouldn't be the case imo (continuous penalties would be preferable).


The reason for this is that at 7 tiles the code says that you are in iron sight range and don't need to use the scope. This is working as intended by Headrock as far as I can see. At 8 tiles the game will still use the scope and you will get a big penalty.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321793] Fri, 21 June 2013 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
@Kaerar

Well, technically with just the 6116 exe and a slightly modified Ja2_Options.INI probably yes, but you would miss all the xml-changes from newer revisions. So you either have to add them manually or wait for the next update. Unfortunatly i'm occupied with other stuff at the moment, so that could take a long while.

silversurfer
The reason for this is that at 7 tiles the code says that you are in iron sight range and don't need to use the scope. This is working as intended by Headrock as far as I can see. At 8 tiles the game will still use the scope and you will get a big penalty.

I think it's just not very intuitive, that the scope suddenly ceases to play a role under an arbitrary range. I speculate at the time the code was written this should simulate switching to emergency backup sights on top of a scope and similar for short ranges. But today we can achieve this behaviour with item transformations or scope mode toggles, so i would prefer continuous penalties.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321794] Fri, 21 June 2013 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3698
Registered:July 2009
What xml changes? There were none so far from 1677.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321796] Fri, 21 June 2013 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2800
Registered:May 2009
Strohmann

I think it's just not very intuitive, that the scope suddenly ceases to play a role under an arbitrary range. I speculate at the time the code was written this should simulate switching to emergency backup sights on top of a scope and similar for short ranges. But today we can achieve this behaviour with item transformations or scope mode toggles, so i would prefer continuous penalties.


Let's continue this discussion in the NCTH Scope penalties below optimal range - broken? thread. Smile

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #321799] Fri, 21 June 2013 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
ah, my bad, i didn't check JA related stuff since the last update apart from this thread, i was just guessing.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #322586] Wed, 10 July 2013 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Any plans to release a new version now when the scope penalties are fixed?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #322588] Wed, 10 July 2013 17:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:700
Registered:July 2008
By new release if you mean a stable release i wouldn't bet on it. If you are content with unstable check here

[Updated on: Wed, 10 July 2013 17:13] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #322590] Wed, 10 July 2013 17:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3698
Registered:July 2009
He quite obviously means the mod that is discussed in this thread gambi.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #322592] Wed, 10 July 2013 18:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:700
Registered:July 2008
Opss, my bad. I thought this was some topic else.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #322595] Wed, 10 July 2013 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
A new version is in the works, but the lack of time, the need to reorganize all xmls, create new images etc. will delay it for a while longer.

If you don't want to wait that long, you have to integrate the latest xml changes from the last revisions manually (like the new mercs).

I would recommend adding the inseparable default magnification attachments back to their fitting scopes again (up to ACOG 5.5x and PKS-07, Battle Scope 7x and everything with higher magnification should stay item transformations imo). Then you can set ALLOW_ALTERNATIVE_WEAPON_HOLDING back to 3 and USE_SCOPE_MODES back to TRUE.

Edit: Since you probably finished one playthrough, if you like some feedback could be helpful for the next versions, even if the details seem negligible. As i have not the time to playtest everything for the next weeks, i have to rely on it even more than already.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #322598] Wed, 10 July 2013 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Good news! I too have a lot of work right now so I'm fine waiting a bit.

I never finished the game but I captured Chitzena, Cambria and Alma at least, so I can give some feedback on the early game.
I played the AR version btw.

Honestly I have to think really hard to come up with some good criticism though, I really enjoyed most of it, I plays so much better than vanilla.
Most of all I like what you did to the handling values, and the ironsights buff, so I really look forward to a new play through with the scope penalty bug fixed.

I think I mentioned most of it already, and maybe you fixed some of it.

Pistols could get a small buff, especially larger guns.
The reload time between each shot on the revolvers was a bit much I think (8 just as shotguns?).

I also tweaked my game a bit, for example I like when every attachment has a downside, how small it might be.
For example the fore-grip I gave a small aiming cap penalty, you rarely see snipers using those etc.

I made it so you could switch the IR night-sight off, turning it in to a normal (but pretty crappy) laser sight for day use etc. No idea if realistic, but transformations are cool.

When thinking of it I prefer if all scopes use transformations for different scope-modes. In your last version I set the AP cost to 10-20 for this, and it played really well.
Kind of forces you to create a few dedicated snipers, some specialized close quarters, and some in-between.
People might see it a bit tedious to switch though so I could see if you chose not to go this way.

Double the cost for reloading (not chambering rifles/shotguns) would make gameplay more interesting too.

Other than that I would love to see some more shops, mostly selling crappy guns (WWII arms and maybe stuff thatthe army doesn't use that much etc).
A general store (empty sand bags, hunting stuff, tools etc) and a drug store with limited selection. The shops are much more fun than using the website IMO.
That said, I have no idea how hard it is to do with the externalized merchants, and maybe you want to leave that to the AR team.

[Updated on: Wed, 10 July 2013 23:55] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323531] Thu, 01 August 2013 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Hell, it was about time!

Main
AR-Compatibility

Use this/these for updating your game files, there is no genuine update file at the moment.
[color:#FF0000]Before installing however please delete the folders

Gamedir/Docs/1.13 Stock Data Overhaul
Gamedir/Data-1.13 NCTH/BigItems, Interface and tilesets[/color]


to prevent conflicts with older versions, as the complete file structures have been changed (this also means no savegame compatibility of cause).
  • Attachment distribution across the weapons was slightly changed again and some new were added.
  • Some buffs for shotguns by attachments, coolness and ammo.
  • Some weapons at early coolness level got their ammo type changed or were replaced. The only left are the Ruger Mini-14, HK SL8, HK SL8 RAS and ColtCanada C7CT (all 5.56x45mm). Not sure what to do with them, they fire the most common ammo type, but the lack of auto fire prevents a relocation to higher coolness levels...(however you cannot buy 5.56x45mm ammo before coolness 5 now).
  • Support for scope modes is back for most low power scopes. Most high power scopes still use item transformations to change their magnification.
Know Issues:

The additional IMPs from Parkan still have russian voice files.
The updated NCTH code from silversurfer is not actived yet in the ini; i need to test it some time.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323535] Thu, 01 August 2013 06:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:436
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

I understand that my additional imp voices can be in some trouble for all who not really understand russian voice.They can simple make own voice and overwright them.192,193,194 voice sets they are.
The subtitle still in english,so it compecate a little for all who not understand russian voice.So,i don't think that is an issue.

[Updated on: Sat, 03 August 2013 13:35] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323559] Fri, 02 August 2013 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Found that SKS has no ironsights.
With NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE=70 it's hard to hit anything without scope.
So this long-range rifle that should be pretty accurate to at least 200-300 m becomes less useful than a shotgun with effective distance about 100m.
Strange thing.

Using latest svn+AR+overhaul1719+overhaulAR1719+exe6263

And turning on "improved" NCTH function still lead to blackscreenfreeze.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323561] Fri, 02 August 2013 13:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Moses has small toolkit, but no combat pack -> so he puts toolkit where he thinks his combat pack is. (strange bug, started another game and he had tt3 pack this time)

Transforming Benelli m3 convertible in turnbased -> merc drops tt3 daypack (from his tims backpack)saying
"Due to the lack od inventory space after transformation .. etc"

Using latest svn+AR+overhaul1719+overhaulAR1719+exe6263

[Updated on: Fri, 02 August 2013 21:32] by Moderator



Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323570] Fri, 02 August 2013 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
merc05

 
Messages:87
Registered:January 2013
Sevenfm
Transforming Benelli m3 convertible in turnbased -> merc drops tt3 daypack (from his tims backpack)saying
"Due to the lack od inventory space after transformation .. etc"


It's not the fault of this mod. That glitch is common to using any item transformation during turn-based mode while having something in the backpack - all backpack items will be dropped and the "Due to... blah blah blah." message will appear. I have reported this in the main bug thread but it wasn't solved yet apparently.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323575] Sat, 03 August 2013 03:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
Nice, a new release!

Strohmann

The updated NCTH code from silversurfer is not actived yet in the ini; i need to test it some time.


Is this referring to the new 'too close' penalty? Any reason to believe it's not working correctly?

Btw, this ought to work with the new briefing room missions right?

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323587] Sat, 03 August 2013 14:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:436
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

Strohmann






Hello Strohmann.Want to ask you something.Previus version of you mod was very playble on wildfire maps,but now there is a lot of junk on maps and it not playble.is it any chance to made some compatibly patch for it?or how can i make it myself?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323598] Sat, 03 August 2013 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
New Update:

*Click me*
  • Added some dedicated night vision devices. As part of the changes SIGHT_RANGE_BONUS_IN_DARK (night ops trait) has been increased to 3 and SIGHT_RANGE_INCREASED_WITH_SCOPES (scouting trait) decreased to 0 (both in Skillsettings.ini), because a scout could end up being better qualified for night ops then the genuine specialist.
Sevenfm
Found that SKS has no ironsights. [...] Moses has small toolkit, but no combat pack [...]
Fixed. It turned out because of an error in AttachmentPoint.xml nearly all russian weapons had no iron sights. If you happen to have aquired such weapons before having downloaded this update, then try to recreate them with cheats or item transformations.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323601] Sat, 03 August 2013 20:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Quote:
With NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE=70 it's hard to hit anything without scope.
So this long-range rifle that should be pretty accurate to at least 200-300 m becomes less useful than a shotgun with effective distance about 100m.
Strange thing.
Was this test performed with the lacking iron sights and with Moses? Well, if this was the case you were missing 10% bonus to aiming cap and Moses has very low dexterity to begin with.

The problem with changing the NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE is, that this constant also acts as multiplier for calculations involving the lasers and scopes, so you aren't just "improving" the iron sights.

A better method could be the increasement of the -value of the iron sights, items 2100-2109. In this case don't forget to increase the -penalty of the corresponding scopes, too (they should cancel each other out). But be warned, doing so can make iron sights better than any scope in the standard sight radius, if you accumulate enough stats and trait bonuses later in the game.

Quote:
And turning on "improved" NCTH function still lead to blackscreenfreeze.
Please elaborate. Can it in any way be related to this mod?

krux
Is this referring to the new 'too close' penalty? Any reason to believe it's not working correctly?
As i said, i had no time to test it at all. Just from reading silversurfer's description it seems to make scopes way to good without counterbalancing measures, hence default = off for now.

krux
Btw, this ought to work with the new briefing room missions right?
?
Parkan
[Previous version of your mod was very playable on wildfire maps, but now there is a lot of junk on maps and it not playable. Is there any chance to make some compatibility patch for it? Or how can i make it myself?]
You have started a new game, right? If yes, i need the of these junk items to comment on anything.

On another note, while the layout of these maps is great, you can aquire too powerful items way to early (just from my memory coolness 7 sniper rifle and assault rifle from the very "first" SAM battery near drassen), so the playthrough may not be very balanced.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323602] Sat, 03 August 2013 21:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Strohmann:

Great that you fixed my favourite sks, i tried to set normal_shooting_distance to 200 and scope_multiplier to 0.5, and when i got myself a rifle-lam (and SG552) i felt it's too powerful, may be because of that settings.

About "improved" NCTH - don't think it has any relation to this mod while it stays turned off.
I mentioned it just for those who may turn it on by accident and then suddenly see a black screen, as i did.



Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #323603] Sat, 03 August 2013 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2800
Registered:May 2009
Strohmann

The problem with changing the NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE is, that this constant also acts as multiplier for calculations involving the lasers and scopes, so you aren't just "improving" the iron sights.

This is true and it's the reason why I decided to add some code to adjust iron sight and laser based shooting. I'm testing that at the moment. (more info here)


Strohmann

Quote:
And turning on "improved" NCTH function still lead to blackscreenfreeze.
Please elaborate. Can it in any way be related to this mod?

I would like to know the same because I reworked the NCTH function. What exactly is happening and how can it be reproduced?


Strohmann

As i said, i had no time to test it at all. Just from reading silversurfer's description it seems to make scopes way to good without counterbalancing measures, hence default = off for now.

The changed code doesn't directly "improve" scopes but it changes the way their "too close" penalty is handled. Yes, this can lead to smaller penalties than expected but I changed the code because people were complaining that scopes were useless when used below optimal range and this was true. The penalty was much too high and had an extreme influence on CTH.


Parkan
[Previous version of you mod was very playable on wildfire maps, but now there is a lot of junk on maps and it not playable. Is there any chance to make some compatibility patch for it? Or how can i make it myself?]

I don't use AFS but I play on the WF 6.07 maps. There are lots of NADA items everywhere because AFAIK WF maps used to be designed with AIMNAS item pool. There were tons of items in AIMNAS, more than we have in stock 1.13 and maybe more than in AFS. If the item ID of an item is not in items.xml it defaults to 0 - the NADA item. I simply pick them up and put them in the trash bin.

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