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Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance: Unfinished Business » Vanilla Modding » License and POSIX port
License and POSIX port[message #147479] Sat, 30 June 2007 20:43 Go to next message
DarthSide

 
Messages:6
Registered:June 2007
Hi everyone!

I have currently 2 questions:
- What license is JA2 under? I couldn't find any COPYING or License files...
- Was there ever an attempt to port this over to POSIX systems?

--DarthSide
Re: License and POSIX port[message #147752] Mon, 02 July 2007 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lesh 2

 
Messages:108
Registered:September 2006
Location: Izhevsk, Russia
Licence text:
http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=100591&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=8577084

Port:
I think, many people are trying (including me). Check http://ja2.dragonriders.de/ at first.

Re: License and POSIX port[message #147852] Tue, 03 July 2007 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DarthSide

 
Messages:6
Registered:June 2007
The license sounds somewhat awful...
Doesn't seem to be GPL compatible at all.
I guess you have to dynamicaly link against SDL because of that?

There doesn't seem to be a paragraph demanding that the modified source is made available under a compatible license?
What license are your modifications under? Did you have the assistance of some lawyers when choosing it? (Debian-legal comes to mind.)

Do you use anything besides SDL? Like OpenAL or SDL_sound, SDL_image and the likes?
Do you host on an own server or on some community service, like SF, BerliOS or Gna?

I hope you don't want to support MSVC? (Have bad experiences with that in my other project, Warzone 2100. Mostly prevents you from using any C99 feature.)

I got the idea to port JA2 to SDL, because v113 runs really crappy on Linux/Wine. I blame Fmod for most of this.
At the same time there seem to be interesting modifications to it, like an afaik easier data format. Did you try to port that? (expat is as-is, so should be compatible.)
What license are the v113 modifications under?

And, because I just read it in your faq: Why TF do the Windows folks want to port JA2 to DX9??? Or even D3D... Seems pretty crappy to me, and is also locking users with older PCs out.
Re: License and POSIX port[message #147912] Tue, 03 July 2007 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lesh 2

 
Messages:108
Registered:September 2006
Location: Izhevsk, Russia
DarthSide
The license sounds somewhat awful...
Doesn't seem to be GPL compatible at all.
I guess you have to dynamicaly link against SDL because of that?

Licence is really aims at profit of the SFI.
Dynamicly linked libraries is a rule. I don't want bigger executable size.

DarthSide

There doesn't seem to be a paragraph demanding that the modified source is made available under a compatible license?
What license are your modifications under? Did you have the assistance of some lawyers when choosing it? (Debian-legal comes to mind.)

Obviously, my modifications (and modifications of my project mates) belongs to SFI (due to paragraph 5). But I prefer to release my code under GLP or LGPL base. I didn't took any lawer assistance, I was simply in passion from source control and participate in mod develpment.

DarthSide

Do you use anything besides SDL? Like OpenAL or SDL_sound, SDL_image and the likes?
Do you host on an own server or on some community service, like SF, BerliOS or Gna?

I am using SDL, SDL_Config, fmod and expat. In plans - SDL_image, but current game architecture prevents to this. Probably, I'll replace fmod with SDL_mixer and SDL sound facilities.

DarthSide

I hope you don't want to support MSVC? (Have bad experiences with that in my other project, Warzone 2100. Mostly prevents you from using any C99 feature.)

Currently, I do not take steps towards win portability. At least, I do not write code for it.

DarthSide

I got the idea to port JA2 to SDL, because v113 runs really crappy on Linux/Wine. I blame Fmod for most of this.
At the same time there seem to be interesting modifications to it, like an afaik easier data format. Did you try to port that? (expat is as-is, so should be compatible.)
What license are the v113 modifications under?

Already ported. SDL and expat is in use. About to release alpha release. Didn't choose licence for my code yet.

DarthSide

And, because I just read it in your faq: Why TF do the Windows folks want to port JA2 to DX9??? Or even D3D... Seems pretty crappy to me, and is also locking users with older PCs out.

I think, people want to test his strenght at coding. Thus there is DX9 with support of playing media. And even crazy D3D things. But I personally would prefer OGRE (or something like this), as a 3D engine for ja2.

Re: License and POSIX port[message #147924] Tue, 03 July 2007 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DarthSide

 
Messages:6
Registered:June 2007
Quote:

3. That if you distribute the Software or any derivative works of the Software, you will distribute them using a verbatim copy of this License, and you will not grant any
rights to the Software or derivative works that are broader than those provided by this Licensing Agreement. For example, you may not distribute any modifications of the Software under terms that would permit commercial use, or under terms that require the Software or such derivative works to be sublicensed to others.
[...]
5. That Strategy First is granted, without any limitations, and on a royalty free basis, the rights to reproduce, install, use, modify, distribute and transfer your modifications to the Software source code or data.

This sounds to me that you may very well choose a license for your code/modifications (or even the entire sourcecode?) and that it does not belong to Strategy First (SFI?). Eg. the GPL would be more restrictive (in opposite to "broader") and still grant SFI the rights they want.

I will, however, ask some people who know better than I do about this.
Re: License and POSIX port[message #147987] Wed, 04 July 2007 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DarthSide

 
Messages:6
Registered:June 2007
The most extensive reply I got was the following, refering to
Re: License and POSIX port[message #148065] Wed, 04 July 2007 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lesh 2

 
Messages:108
Registered:September 2006
Location: Izhevsk, Russia
Hm... really awful. Thanks for clearing licencing side of this question.
And providing diffs by current moment is extremely hard:
1. svn repository didn't started from vanilla source, but somewhere after long time of development.
2. my port was forked from 1.13, and soon after this, I renamed most of the files.

And now I have no idea, how to track all this changes and how diff will behave on such material.

Quote:

You are not one of the stracciatella guys then? Since their binary doesn't seem to link against fmod nor expat or for that matter anything besides libsdl.

Stracciatella project aim is to bring _vanilla_ ja2 (as the first stage) to any platform, where sdl and gcc can be run. So, as it is vanilla, it doesn't have xml-files, nor ogg playback. Expat and fmod were result of legacy windows code. Expat was using even before I came to team. I simply had no choice here. But I am responsible for fmod appearing in ja2 1.13, because I rewrote sound manager for this library. It was my first serious code changes.

Re: License and POSIX port[message #149284] Fri, 13 July 2007 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DarthSide

 
Messages:6
Registered:June 2007
Sorry, I didn't notice your reply, since the "watch this topic" function apparently is broken.

You talk about expat as if it were a bad thing...
It seems extremely crossplatform, the license is ok and a tutorial I looked at recently looked like working with it is extremely easy.
Did you have any problems with it?
(Just saw SCEW, seems interesting...)

Will your code be merged back into the v113 SVN? Or is it already there? Wondering, since I couldn't find a non MSVC way of building it...
Re: License and POSIX port[message #149318] Fri, 13 July 2007 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lesh 2

 
Messages:108
Registered:September 2006
Location: Izhevsk, Russia
Apologies, if I made you thinking bad about expat. It is a good lib. I had no problems with it.

It's too early to speak about merging back to v1.13. Code is raw. While I am planning cross-platform compiling of my branch only. After that we'll see, what is needed in order to merge two this branches.

Re: License and POSIX port[message #149506] Sun, 15 July 2007 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sergeant_Kolja

 
Messages:42
Registered:July 2003
Location: Hannover, N-Germany

Hi Lesh, hi DarthSide,

Lesh 2
Thanks for clearing licencing side of this question.


I see nothing cleared here :confused:

SFI License is im my eyes and with my (limited) understanding of the english language 'compatible enough' with GPL. I cannot derive all the rights, a pure GPL packet would give me, okay. But adding GPL code (in source code form) and thereby forced to give the SFI-code away together with the added GPL code does not break the SFI license. Or?

IMHO, the primary question is: is GPL broken when it is mixed with SFI-LA?
I think, no. Everything required by GPL is fullfilled by the way we mix it with SFI-LA - Code.
Remember, today there are a lot of projects with a two-licenses model out in the world. And the second license is very often GPL. If the first allows the distribution of the source (as SFI does in


Re: License and POSIX port[message #153952] Tue, 21 August 2007 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DarthSide

 
Messages:6
Registered:June 2007
See above...
The problem with their license is that every modification belongs to them and they prohibit you from licensing it.

If you would move all of your own code outside of the SFI code, not use any copyrighted stuff in it and place your necessary modifications to the SFI code under their license, it might maybe work if the GPL doesn't prevent this somehow (linking, etc.). But I think this might want to be looked after by a real lawyer.
Re: License and POSIX port[message #163477] Sat, 03 November 2007 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynxlynxlynx

 
Messages:102
Registered:September 2005
Location: Slovenija
the GPL isn't only about open source, but Freedom. The SFI license clearly states that relicensing to broader licenses is prohibited. The GPL *is* broader.

Re: License and POSIX port[message #163560] Sun, 04 November 2007 09:26 Go to previous message
onemic
Messages:2
Registered:November 2007
I was wondering about this line in the license,

"Commercial purposes include, but are not limited to, running a business, licensing, renting, or selling the Software, distributing the Software for use with any commercial products"

I was thinking of attempting to do a port of the game to the psp. Would such a thing violate the license in any way?
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