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Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237245] Mon, 09 November 2009 22:30 Go to next message
akmatov is currently offline akmatov

 
Messages:74
Registered:September 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
As a new player who just survived, barely, the Queen's Counter-Attack at Drassen, I have developed a suddenly heigthened interest in how best to set up my primary merc squad. I'm currently thinking of 1 x sniper, 1 x grenadier, 2 x LMGunners and 2 x Riflemen-Mules. I'd be very curious as to the ideas of others to our common challenges - surviving and kicking queenly butt! Smile

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Corporal
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237247] Mon, 09 November 2009 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne is currently offline Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1448
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
The six healiest mercs available (as I normally don't play with 'doctering)

If I have the choise the 5 healthiest/high levelst + 1 Trainee.

Trainees aren't overloaded, while 'skilled' mercs go into battle with up to 150% of weight.

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Sergeant Major
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237256] Tue, 10 November 2009 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akmatov is currently offline akmatov

 
Messages:74
Registered:September 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
150% of weight


If we run our guys with 100% of weight, is it possible we can permanently lower their max energy level? I think I might be seeing this, but not sure. I've started giving my guys a lot of naps and that might be helping.

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Corporal
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237267] Tue, 10 November 2009 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cdudau
Akmatov
I'm currently thinking of 1 x sniper, 1 x grenadier, 2 x LMGunners and 2 x Riflemen-Mules.


Sounds like a pretty good idea you have already. This could be your primary team. Then you could have a team of errand runners. Gun running, Doctoring, Mechanics, Teachers, Drivers, Defenders, mules, et cetera.

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Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237280] Tue, 10 November 2009 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Gorro der Gr

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First Sergeant

Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237315] Tue, 10 November 2009 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akmatov is currently offline akmatov

 
Messages:74
Registered:September 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
Being over the limit may lead to a loss of available AP.


I actually knew that. What I was wondering about is the Energy bar that shows information like 78/100. The /xxx part of the value decreases over time and then seems to recover after you have your merc sleep for a while. BUT it does not seems to fully recover. I'm wondering if excessive exertion is permanently decreasing the max energy available.

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Corporal
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237401] Wed, 11 November 2009 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne is currently offline Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1448
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Starwalker
Gorro der Gr

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Sergeant Major
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237419] Wed, 11 November 2009 15:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
herb is currently offline herb

 
Messages:387
Registered:September 2007
Location: Slovenija
lock picker is very useful otherwise you can't open all locks. Take Barry he is smart enough. When playing 1.13 it is a must sniper with "one shoot one dead" gun.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237449] Wed, 11 November 2009 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cdudau
marko
lock picker is very useful otherwise you can't open all locks. Take Barry he is smart enough. When playing 1.13 it is a must sniper with "one shoot one dead" gun.

I usually use Gasket, pretty good mechanic, +Comic relief

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Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237456] Thu, 12 November 2009 02:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Saibot is currently offline Saibot

 
Messages:198
Registered:September 2009
I'm never without Barry and here's why. I had my most "zen" session with him, Hitman, and Igor taking the north sector of that village in the northwest. This was after losing Dmitri and Fox in the south sector, but I wasn't gonna let my progress be stopped. Barry is a decent enough shot that you can bring him into a fight so as to pick locks either before or immediately after clearing the area, as opposed to Gasket who's strictly a mechanic/mule, plus he doesn't have the pricetag like Magic.

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Staff Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237468] Thu, 12 November 2009 04:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Archbar Bettendorf is currently offline Archbar Bettendorf

 
Messages:11
Registered:August 2009
Location: Australia
I don't think I've ever played without Barry either. He trains up alright to the point where he can accompany the first team and open doors that may have bad guys behind them, which wouldn't be a healthy prospect prospect for Gasket.

"They are trying to kill me, but I am... professional!"

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Private
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237479] Thu, 12 November 2009 06:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Saibot is currently offline Saibot

 
Messages:198
Registered:September 2009
Plus electronics skill and a top notch 92 in explosives. And his religiousness works for the whole militaristic setting. Gotta have the religious guy.

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Staff Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237485] Thu, 12 November 2009 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
herb is currently offline herb

 
Messages:387
Registered:September 2007
Location: Slovenija
And he is cheap. And he laerns quickly

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Master Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237492] Thu, 12 November 2009 11:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
barry has exactly one flaw - i'd like him to produce a bible and deliver a sermon if someone dies

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Captain
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237495] Thu, 12 November 2009 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
herb is currently offline herb

 
Messages:387
Registered:September 2007
Location: Slovenija
well you are too rude

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Master Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237496] Thu, 12 November 2009 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
??? - what is rude in a religious man to start preaching if he sees the needs arouse?

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Captain
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237498] Thu, 12 November 2009 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
herb is currently offline herb

 
Messages:387
Registered:September 2007
Location: Slovenija
too much spirituality

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Master Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237502] Thu, 12 November 2009 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne is currently offline Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1448
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
ya I would like to have Buns exploding when she is equipped with the smelly and unwashed gear that Fox whore for an entire year.

[Updated on: Thu, 12 November 2009 12:46] by Moderator

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Sergeant Major
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237503] Thu, 12 November 2009 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
herb is currently offline herb

 
Messages:387
Registered:September 2007
Location: Slovenija
I think that Buns and Fox are perfect characters for playing multiplayer

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Master Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237707] Sat, 14 November 2009 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WillyWonka is currently offline WillyWonka

 
Messages:120
Registered:February 2006
Location: Sweden/Sverige
Ahh... squad organizations... that

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Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237714] Sun, 15 November 2009 01:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cdudau
WillyWonka
Ahh... squad organizations... that

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Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237723] Sun, 15 November 2009 03:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burzmali is currently offline Burzmali

 
Messages:248
Registered:March 2007
Location: Estonia
Guys, you are mixing it up with building a regular army or what?

I prefer to move light and fast. (If I

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #237735] Sun, 15 November 2009 11:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WillyWonka is currently offline WillyWonka

 
Messages:120
Registered:February 2006
Location: Sweden/Sverige
Burzmali
Guys, you are mixing it up with building a regular army or what?

I prefer to move light and fast. (If I

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Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238061] Thu, 19 November 2009 01:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akmatov is currently offline akmatov

 
Messages:74
Registered:September 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
people are grumbling about the lack of reality


Well, that would be me. Smile

The thing about JA2 is it has the capacity to be rather realistic and it is frustrating to some when it just goes gamey and lazy. Now getting the sounds just right would be a huge challenge, how many people really know what an M24A3 sounds like firing .338 Lapus rounds? Not me for sure!

But when you have what are supposed to be professional mercenaries who are so out of physical condition that they can not carry a normal infantryman's load without collapsing face down on the ground within the first hour, then you are really challenging the sense of immersion. Normal load is @ 60-80 pounds, which is beyond most of JA2's available mercs. Which is one of the things that can be fixed by the guys who have cracked open JA2 and made it possible to edit it to something a bit more believable.

Quote:
You imagine what happens if you try to load a guy like Razor with 150% of unnecessary junk? Hint: he sleeps very little and moves very silently. You just will not wake up any more. Never.


Given that in this game Razor is an independent contractor and he is the one who loaded himself, this is kinda not relevant. And if you as the employer have set certain standards for gear to be carried, then Razor agreed to that up front. And if you are silly enough to hire someone that undisciplined, it would be better to drop the mad dog yourself for everyone's sake.

One of the things that bugs me is the level total unpreparedness of most the the mercs for hire. They are supposed to be veterans of previous contracts and here they are going off to fight carrying a PISTOL!!! That is just so gamey. Why not drop them out of the helo naked with a knife?



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Corporal
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238063] Thu, 19 November 2009 01:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akmatov is currently offline akmatov

 
Messages:74
Registered:September 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
Guys, you are mixing it up with building a regular army or what?


There is a reason regular armies generally kick butt, they have studied the best way to do things over time and after a lot of experience. Most professional 'western' armies have fairly similar squad organization for a reason, it is the outcome of a lot of thought and experience. Why not take advantage of that and consider organizing your JA2 squad along similar lines?




PS I specified 'western' based on the limits of my knowledge, not saying how the other guys are doing business because I don't know.

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Corporal
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238071] Thu, 19 November 2009 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Archbar Bettendorf is currently offline Archbar Bettendorf

 
Messages:11
Registered:August 2009
Location: Australia
Akmatov
One of the things that bugs me is the level total unpreparedness of most the the mercs for hire. They are supposed to be veterans of previous contracts and here they are going off to fight carrying a PISTOL!!! That is just so gamey. Why not drop them out of the helo naked with a knife?


This only bugs me at the initial helecopter insertion. You should probably get the chance to provide better equipment prior to arrival, but the game compensates somewhat by having less skilled enemies at the start. Other than that, when you hire from AIM or MERC, you get personel. Why should they have to provide anything more than the most basic of equipment? You can't take stuff on planes anyway, how are they meant to bring their own toys to Arulco? It's only proper that the employer provides the types of weapons they want their squad to use. You have to supply and maintain the gear once they go into the field, and you get to keep everying when they leave your employ.

Why don't they have cool gear? The last employer kept it, same as you will.


You want to complain about reality? No one eats, pisses, or takes a dump. They maybe sip a canteen or throw back a beer, if you give them one. Imagine if you had to co-ordinate feeding and watering your mercs, it'd be a nightmare! Too much reality isn't always a good thing.

[Updated on: Thu, 19 November 2009 02:20] by Moderator

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Private
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238072] Thu, 19 November 2009 02:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
yup - imagine buns having a decent shit with haywire, maddog, carlo and (for other reasons) fidel arround

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Captain
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238164] Thu, 19 November 2009 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akmatov is currently offline akmatov

 
Messages:74
Registered:September 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
Imagine if you had to co-ordinate feeding and watering your mercs, it'd be a nightmare! Too much reality isn't always a good thing.


Oh, I SOOOOO agree. Years ago I was playing a game called Ultima VII and you had to feed your group. What a lot of whining and moaning! It was like taking a bunch of kids to the mall. And they didn't have guns! Smile

Quote:
Why should they have to provide anything more than the most basic of equipment?

I like that rational, it is something I didn't think of. Although, I'd expect them to provide their own protective gear, but this is me quibbling. And it justifies what I'm doing in buying them some decent kit and weapons.

Quote:
The last employer kept it, same as you will.

Not having played enough to know, I suspect that if I give a merc some cool gear and a great weapon they will keep it if they leave my employment, right? Hmmm, still I could take it just before their contract expires couldn't I?

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Corporal
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238180] Thu, 19 November 2009 20:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burzmali is currently offline Burzmali

 
Messages:248
Registered:March 2007
Location: Estonia
Only Slay disappears with stuff, others drop it and you can choose if they leave it in the place you fired 'em or in airport.

But why I took this thread up

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238228] Fri, 20 November 2009 04:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
akmatov is currently offline akmatov

 
Messages:74
Registered:September 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Quote:
soviet infantry lieutenant

Ex-US Army, NOT combat arms; but I have played a little with with some of NATO's specials. Used to drink with a guy who claimed, believably, that he had been a merc in Central America. Was just talking today with a guy who was in Fallujah with the US Marines.

Quote:
"quit" and "offered" are not the right words here

Bet there is an interesting story there.

Quote:

I know from real life that I can manage a group of 20+ in mildly dangerous situations

Yep, a good lieutenant will learn to lead his men, even when the situation is rarely exactly what his training prepared him for.

Quote:
if players wanting to play JA with 40 or 100 mercs could manage it also IRL.

Wouldn't dream of it.

Quote:
"carrying stuff" problem.

My problem with carrying stuff was based on the inability of many of the guys to carry a reasonable amount of gear and ammo. This was easily fixed with I was told how you can modify the relationship between weight and strength in HAM. Not wanting supermerc, just guys who can carry a believable amount without collapse. Ran some tests to find out the right setting for 100% to equal 60-80 pounds. My friend from Fallujah told me the standard load before weapons and ammo would be 60 pounds. To this you add weapons and ammo; or in his case a 40 pound medic bag and some times also a 20 pound radio-'cause we all know the medic isn't doing anything. Now these were youngish, highly trained and well-lead Marines; I see no problem with my mercs being expected to carry half that. As you know soldiers can be very competitive and pretty cold-blooded about those who don't pull their weight. If you want to add a 'relationship' mod to JA2, wonder about the reaction of some of the guys to someone who chose to whimp out on carrying enough ammo to provide covering fire for them? "After the firefight Buns and Sidney turn their weapons on Dumpy and blow him to chopped meat as he was buffing his nails."

Quote:

"Game over, somebody stabbed you in your sleep for your incompetent commands."

That would be interesting. Would add a whole new level to the leadership 'challenge'. Of course, if you were sharp you would pick up on the problem and drop the guy yourself. All kinds of relationship issues far beyond the JA2 engine, but interesting.

[Updated on: Fri, 20 November 2009 04:09] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238289] Fri, 20 November 2009 16:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doggyboyboi is currently offline Doggyboyboi

 
Messages:113
Registered:November 2009
Location: Singapore
Why not make a squad with only mercenaries that have the Night Ops trait? That way, most town would be really easy to capture

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Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238306] Fri, 20 November 2009 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
herb is currently offline herb

 
Messages:387
Registered:September 2007
Location: Slovenija
that's why was NightOps mod made

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Master Sergeant
Re: Favorite Squad Organizations[message #238358] Sat, 21 November 2009 15:14 Go to previous message
Burzmali is currently offline Burzmali

 
Messages:248
Registered:March 2007
Location: Estonia
Carrying stuff in JA: as many other things, strength is not perfectly balanced, but I understand some logic behind it as it forces the player to make a choice between bigger gun and stronger vest, so to say, not allowing both.

Carrying stuff IRL: in soviet infantry squad

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Sergeant 1st Class
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