Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab » HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread
HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262052]
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Thu, 09 September 2010 22:45
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Headrock |
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Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006 Location: Jerusalem |
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This thread will be used to coordinate and track the Alpha testing phase of HAM 4.0. This opening post will be updated as necessary throughout the process.
Do not post here for questions about HAM or discussions about its features. There are threads for those kinds of things.
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HAM 4.0 is gearing up for an Alpha release. This will be a CLOSED alpha, with limited participation. Assuming no (more) unforeseen problems occur, the Alpha phase will begin before the end of next week.
Of course, the first step is to recruit Alpha testers. Since this is a closed release, not everyone will get a chance to play-test HAM 4 at this stage.
Volunteers will be recruited based on whether or not they can be trusted to give good feedback, test things to the limit, and know how to handle minor problems (including minor installation issues). However, you are urged to volunteer nonetheless, just in case.
What will the process include?
1. Download and installation HAM 4.0a
- A clean installation of JA2 1.13 is required, to avoid errors unrelated to HAM.
- HAM 4.0a will be distributed as a package containing all files from the 1.13 cutting-edge Beta version, as well as HAM's own unique files. The package is roughly 20MB in size.
- HAM 4.0a will have a separate directory for its "special" files, but WILL overwrite files in the DATA and DATA-1.13 directory with the needed files from the 1.13 Beta Project. You will not be able to go back to "plain" 1.13, unless you're good enough with the VFS system to know how to setup those files in a separate directory.
2. Playing HAM 4.0a
- The idea of course is to try out HAM 4.0a to see whether it's stable. Of course, part of the point is to push the boundaries when you can, just to see what happens.
- HAM 4.0a runs on top of the 1.13 Beta Project. That means it includes STOMP, NAS, and all other new features that are in that project.
- STOMP use is highly unrecommended, since HAM somewhat cripples the more shooting-oriented traits (like Marksman).
- It is currently impossible to play HAM 4.0a with Wildfire or the AIM mod. That would require editing the Items.XML and Weapons.XML files to HAM properties. You can play without modifying those files, but all your weapons will have lousy accuracy and no recoil, making the game unbalanced. Also, most attachments will do absolutely nothing.
3. Tweaking
- While this IS an Alpha test, which is meant to discover bugs, it is nonetheless important to get it balanced. This means determining whether ranged combat works well or whether it's annoying in any way.
- A tester must be capable of editing INI files. Playing around with CTHConstants.INI (supplied by HAM 4.0a) is part of this.
- Items.XML and Weapons.XML are not optimized - they may make items/weapons unbalanced. Be prepared to make edits to these, though it's not absolutely required. If you have the mind for these things, you'll surely enjoy all the options NCTH has to offer.
4. Reporting bugs
- Naturally, the idea of Alpha testing is to fish out bugs that I missed. While some things may already be known (see below), you're absolutely guaranteed to find things that are a little weird or completely nonfunctional (hopefully no CTDs).
- Any error you encounter that is not already listed as "known" in this post must be reported so I can fix it. Report what you were doing, what happened, and if possibly what error message you received (in as much detail as possible).
- Be prepared to upload savegames. This is absolutely required. If you have no place to put savegames for download, you can send them directly to me. ALWAYS post the bug description IN THIS THREAD before sending any savegames.
- Push the limits. Try things that aren't logical, do things you don't usually do, just to see what happens.
KNOWN BUGS OR EXPECTED ERRORS
HAM 4.0a is not guaranteed to be bug-free. In fact, it's pretty much guaranteed to have SOME issues here and there. While they probably won't crash your game, they might. It's actually important to try and cause errors to happen during Alpha Testing.
Here is a list of things you can EXPECT to go wrong, or small errors that have yet to be fixed. As a good alpha tester, try to trigger such an error at least once and report your findings here (even if nothing bad happened!).
- Robot shooting skills: The robot currently uses its own skills to shoot, rather than the skills of the person holding the remote control.
- STOMP traits nerfed: Some of the new STOMP traits don't give all the bonuses they should - particularly bonuses related to shooting.
- Missing Recoil Percent Modifier: This effect does not appear in UDB yet. It DOES work, however.
- No toggle for map colors: The strategic map is currently displayed in GREY. Explored sectors appear in color. This will remain until the beta.
- Throwing Knives, Launchers, GL Bursts: These may or may not work at all. It's important to test what happens when they are used, nonetheless!
- Stabbing weapons and Melee Weapons: May or may not display aiming indicators or other important indicators. Still, test them and make suggestions.
- UDB for Shopkeeper's Interface: UDB does not work properly in this interface (it draws only part-way on screen). Actually, ODB may not work well either when NAS is used.
- Cursor text truncated: One or more non-shooting-related cursors appear strange due to STI changes.
- Black targeting cursor invisible: The black targeting cursor for "shot blocked" is apparently missing or invisible.
More known bugs will be posted here as they are discovered.
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262258]
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Sat, 11 September 2010 20:17
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Animus |
Messages:2
Registered:January 2010 Location: Australia |
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Hi Headrock
I am willing to alpha test.
I own JA2,can do all the installing, can use SVN and have a decent amout of time available.
Also i would enjoy it.
[Updated on: Sat, 28 May 2011 11:43] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Civilian
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262340]
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Sun, 12 September 2010 16:47
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Headrock |
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Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006 Location: Jerusalem |
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Quote:UDB reliability shows loudness instead
Fixed for next version. Also, Reliability and Repair Ease will now show "--" instead of 0 on the left column if the item has a zero value. It will still show 0 on the right (in the white column).
Quote:graphical glitch with doors
This must have something to do with my messing with the aiming cursor... Wow I seriously hope I can fix that.
Quote:Aimed autofire is ridiculously overpowered
Yes, especially in the early game. My hope is that it should make the early game a little easier (all the Drassen Counterattack and so forth) but be much more dangerous later thanks to AI with suppression fire (They do that a LOT now). So let me know how it turns out.
P.S. to all those who want to reduce the lethality of autofire, you can decrease the value "RECOIL_MAX_COUNTER_FORCE" which is found in DATA-HAM-40\CTHConstants.INI. The lower it goes, the harder it gets to control autofiring guns. Of course, bipods counteract this...
In the future (I.E. next version) there will be a way to control Counter-Force accuracy the same way, with possibly better results.
[EDIT] Also, it appears I left a debug value in the INI files: RECOIL_COUNTER_FREQUENCY was set to 1, allowing soldiers much more accurate autofire than they should have. I've removed this value entirely since it wasn't really needed to begin with. Recoil Counter-force Frequency is now determined based on the gun's B/5AP value, so guns that shoot faster waste more bullets now.
Patch being prepared now.
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262346]
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Sun, 12 September 2010 18:20
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ko5ma |
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Messages:35
Registered:January 2010 Location: Poland |
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Found another bug. When creating an IMP, skills and attributes start at the minimum value, but instead of immediately going to 0 when further lowered they are decreased by 1 until they reach 0. Subsequently, it is not possible to increase them from 0 - the cost is removed from skill point pool, but value stays at 0.
EDIT:
And yet another one: despite choosing a personality trait when creating IMPs, it is displayed as "neutral" on the merc info panel.
EDIT2:
One more issue, not really a bug though. I always set the global damage multipliers to 150/125/125 in JA2.ini. It seems that this is now displayed in UDB in the "bonus" part, rather than simply added to the base value - i suppose that'd make more sense.
EDIT3:
And one more, the black "impossible shot" aiming reticle is missing, only the firing cost is displayed.
EDIT4:
Loudness modifier (sound suppressors) is displayed in red, as "+75%", despite the description saying "lower is better".
[Updated on: Sun, 12 September 2010 18:53] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262351]
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Sun, 12 September 2010 19:56
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Headrock |
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Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006 Location: Jerusalem |
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Quote:Found another bug. When creating an IMP, skills and attributes start at the minimum value, but instead of immediately going to 0 when further lowered they are decreased by 1 until they reach 0. Subsequently, it is not possible to increase them from 0 - the cost is removed from skill point pool, but value stays at 0.
EDIT:
And yet another one: despite choosing a personality trait when creating IMPs, it is displayed as "neutral" on the merc info panel.
That doesn't sound like anything HAM 4 should be related to... Can anyone test the 1.13 Beta Version without HAM to see what happens? (To do this, simply change the JA2.INI VFS setting back to the original file)
Quote:One more issue, not really a bug though. I always set the global damage multipliers to 150/125/125 in JA2.ini. It seems that this is now displayed in UDB in the "bonus" part, rather than simply added to the base value - i suppose that'd make more sense.
True - it should be part of the weapon's base value. I'll fix that.
Quote:And one more, the black "impossible shot" aiming reticle is missing, only the firing cost is displayed.
It actually IS displayed, behind the AP cost. The cursor is much smaller now. Not sure how to fix that without making things ugly when shooting outside range (where the red cursor alternates with the black one)
Quote:Loudness modifier (sound suppressors) is displayed in red, as "+75%", despite the description saying "lower is better".
Correct - the loudness modifier is actually called "Loudness Reduction", and is better when HIGHER. I'll change that though - the modifier will stay the same in the XML, but will appear reversed in UDB (I.E. "-75%" instead of "+75%", and in green).
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262352]
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Sun, 12 September 2010 20:05
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ko5ma |
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Messages:35
Registered:January 2010 Location: Poland |
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HeadrockQuote:And one more, the black "impossible shot" aiming reticle is missing, only the firing cost is displayed.
It actually IS displayed, behind the AP cost. The cursor is much smaller now. Not sure how to fix that without making things ugly when shooting outside range (where the red cursor alternates with the black one)
I'm afraid that's not true - you can see it easily when out of combat mode. I marked the place where the aiming cursor should be. It does correctly display the grey one while mouse is moving though.
EDIT:
And another thing probably unrelated to HAM - setting the early rebel recruitment option results in a free 2 level experience gain for all mercs... Not sure if it can be avoided.
[Updated on: Sun, 12 September 2010 20:14] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262407]
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Mon, 13 September 2010 02:34
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Headrock |
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Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006 Location: Jerusalem |
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PACKAGE UPDATE
Version 3 is available at the same link as before.
Change Log v2 -> v3:
- New CTH Constant: RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_MIN_ERROR, a multiplier for the gun's (total) recoil that determines the maximum accuracy anyone can have when trying to control a burst/auto volley. Default set to 0.2 (20% of the gun's total recoil).
- Shot offset messages are now toggled by an options menu setting.
- Alternate map colors are now toggled by an options menu setting.
- UDB fix: INI-based weapons damage modifiers now included in "basic" weapon damage displayed.
In addition, Damage Modifiers also grow in proportion to the INI setting now (not just in UDB!). - UDB fix: "Loudness Modifier" now shown GREEN and NEGATIVE when it reduces loudness, as intended.
- UDB fix: "Reliability Modifier" in the ADVANCED page now shows its values (previously, only an
icon was shown)
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Quote:Found another bug. When creating an IMP, skills and attributes start at the minimum value, but instead of immediately going to 0 when further lowered they are decreased by 1 until they reach 0. Subsequently, it is not possible to increase them from 0 - the cost is removed from skill point pool, but value stays at 0.
EDIT:
And yet another one: despite choosing a personality trait when creating IMPs, it is displayed as "neutral" on the merc info panel.
I couldn't reproduce the second bug at all. However I did experience lots of issues with the first bug when trying to create an IMP, and I also have a guess why this happens - it has to do with a new feature that Sandro introduced into STOMP (and apparently has found its way into the 1.13 beta very recently) where merc stats start with random values and can't be shifted by a large enough amount. Apparently part of that system is interfering with IMP creation even when STOMP traits are turned off.
BTW, just as a reminder - please don't use STOMP traits with HAM 4, until it is adapted for the new system.
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262421]
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Mon, 13 September 2010 07:40
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Headrock |
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Messages:1760
Registered:March 2006 Location: Jerusalem |
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Quote:There is also a little graphic glith. Just for knowing. Not a issue at all.
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5170/glith.jpg
... Where's the glitch?
Quote:Thompson have 4 extra aiming levels. Without aiming muzzle stability is 0, with one it is 25 but with 2 and 3 aimings muzzle stability is still 25 although i spend AP. With 4 it is 50.
That's CTH estimation by Bull, thanks to his lowsy Wisdom and EXP level. You can turn it off somewhere, I think in the INI files? It's one of my older features (circa HAM 2.0)
Quote:I hited him 2 times in head for 0 hp and once for 1 hp. Then in next round Steroid shoot him in chest for 3 ...
That's... weird. I think it's a combination of the enemy wearing armor, and CTH being used in determining damage, though I can't really explain that. Actually a savegame at that point would've really helped.
Quote:There is one ballance problem/idea. Heavy attachment and amunition should reduce recoil.
Yes, in theory this is true, but since aimed autofire is already so good, that may not be the best idea.
Quote:How does Projection Factor do? I mean does it make alot easier to hit? I think it should incrase Muzzle Stability without aiming and not giving nothing on aimed shoots or something. Cuz u can see were u weapon is target even without actualy looking through scope/match sight.
A projection factor is a direct multiplier which works similar to scope magnification. If you have 1.2x from a laser, all shots will be 1.2x more accurate (a 20% bonus). Like with scopes, you need at least one aim click to get the bonus. Unlike scopes, it works up to the indicated range (1.2x normal = 1.2 * 7 = , and beyond that it rapidly dissipates.
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262428]
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Mon, 13 September 2010 10:30
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Logisteric |
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Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008 Location: B |
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i'm all for that
edith:
i even think it would be better if [ctrl]-[click] was for buying just one and [click] for buying all of it
[Updated on: Mon, 13 September 2010 10:44] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Captain
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262445]
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Mon, 13 September 2010 14:45
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ko5ma |
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Messages:35
Registered:January 2010 Location: Poland |
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Ormus@Another Edit
Small balance issue (i think) M40 have 89 accurate and MGS90A1 have 90. MGS90A1 is considered a most accurate semi+automatic rifle and is definitely more accurate than M40. Cuz Military standards are less restrict than Police standards.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mao1.png
And one point is not much.
Actually, one point at higher ranges is quite a a big difference. Also, M40 is not semiautomatic, and MSG90 might have been considered most accurate, but that was 20 years ago, in HK brochures... ;> In any case, it is set to its realistic accuracy (1MOA, which is equal to bAccuracy of 90).
Re very low damage at short ranges - happens to me a lot with low-tier mercs. I'll try to reproduce and upload a savegame - but now that the randomizer is reseeded at every load it may not be 100% repeatable.
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Private 1st Class
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262451]
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Mon, 13 September 2010 16:04
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Ormus n2o |
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Messages:28
Registered:March 2010 Location: Poland; Wielkopolska; Pi&... |
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Headrock
... Where's the glitch?
Just Aiming circle is cuted.
I found bug with autofire. It allow to shoot 100-200 rounds autofire using only 35-40 Ap. I give save for better understanding. And i use cheats but i don't think this is relvant. It work both with FN Minimi and HK 416. Also i'm not certain but autofire is a little weak. With that 200 bullet fire i hit eliot only few times with FN minimi.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/3jud55\
@edit
suddenly autofire work now just fine.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/b0uwx1
I have no idea why.
[Updated on: Mon, 13 September 2010 16:11] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262452]
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Mon, 13 September 2010 17:09
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ko5ma |
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Messages:35
Registered:January 2010 Location: Poland |
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Were you firing with a bipod, from a prone position? Most guns have Y recoil calculated from real values (projectile velocity, projectile mass, powder load, ejecta velocity -> projectile momentum -> weapon momentum -> weapon velocity -> recoil energy), but MG's are an exception to this due to balance reasons. You're not supposed to be able to hit anything with long bursts unsupported.
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Private 1st Class
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262480]
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Mon, 13 September 2010 23:06
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sorca_2 |
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Messages:202
Registered:September 2010 Location: California, USA |
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Hello Headrock, I've got two questions/suggestions related to your last improvements:
1) Is it possible to display a list of possible attachments for a weapon in the regular game the way it does in BR? I ask because I bought an FN F2000 from Tony, but none of the cool stuff I have attachs to it (and had I known that, I might have reconsidered). I also can't figure out which grenades attach to its integrated launcher, but that's a different problem.
2) Is it possible for an attachment to display what weapons can accept it? I know the list could be long, but I'm only talking about the more obscure items like the stocks, the Match Sights, Old Aimpoint, and the Grippod (not common stuff like lasers, scopes, or suppressors). I ask because I bought a Grippod thinking it was going to be the greatest attachment ever, only to find out that it doesn't attach to any of my weapons--including ones that accept bipods and/or foregrips. I had the same thing happen with folding and retractable stocks earlier in the game.
Thanks and great work!
[Updated on: Mon, 13 September 2010 23:07] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant 1st Class
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Re: HAM 4.0 Alpha Testing Thread[message #262481]
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Mon, 13 September 2010 23:09
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ko5ma |
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Messages:35
Registered:January 2010 Location: Poland |
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Not really a bug, but strange behavior - IMP (90 MRK, expert sniper) shooting at a redshirt 2 tiles away, pretty much unable to hit... Quicksave on my Skydrive. Is it because of the corner? It's my usual defensive setup, in OCTH it was always a guaranteed interrupt+headshot...
@ Sorca - 1 is in game since NAS, just hover the mouse over an attachment slot. 2 would be way too long to list i think.
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Private 1st Class
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