Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » The A.I.M. Library » Tactical advantage of squad sizes
| Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28380]
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Thu, 07 October 2004 20:10 
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 LegacyOfApathy |
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Messages:101
Registered:September 2004 |
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In your opinion, could having a squad of just two people be better than having a squad of six?
The way that I play the game, I usually have just two people fighting all of the enemies and providing cover fire for one another.
The four other members of my team just sit in a quiet spot until the fighting is over.
I can't begin to imagine how much money and time I've wasted hiring and equiping mercinaries that I never even use.
Lately, I've had a brilliant idea, why not just use two people? That way, I could go though the game much faster. Its a lot faster and easier to move two people though a sector than for six. The four unused people just get in the way, get shot.
It also makes the fights feel a lot more "personal".
Here are a few of my favorite groups
Meltdown\Stephan
Razor\Haywire
Ivan\Igor
Dr. Q\Shadow
Soo... What do you think?
Its much more fun, in my opinion, to have two, instead of just one.
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Sergeant
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28384]
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Fri, 08 October 2004 17:49 
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| NocturnalC |
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Messages:15
Registered:October 2004 |
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Once, in what may have been my first game, I had my team of six step into some trouble right when entering a sector. They were outgunned and badly injured, pulling back behind some buildings while the enemy took potshots at them.
I left my IMP, the only uninjured mercenary lying prone along the line of the enemy attack to cover their retreat as the other five bugged out. She managed to take down the attackers while they shot all around her, but failed to hit the small target. Amazed that she took care of all the enemies in the immediate area without injury, I let her sweep the sector looking for one more, and one more... rationalizing that even if she got hurt I wasn't going to come back until my squad healed up, and should finish as many of the wounded enemy as I could.
She cleared the sector by herself taking only modest injury. I had to rush a medic back in there to patch her up before she bled to death of it though (that's when I started training all my commandos in first aid and giving them medikits.) Since then, I paired my IMP with Dr. Q. and let them run "training" missions at night by themselves, quietly and methodically picking off the baddies one by one, or holding cover behind a building and letting Dr. Q take them down when they approached around the corner.
I split my squad of six into heavily armed squads of two and took entire sectors with them, one medic "trainee" and one experienced marksman. Unless they managed to swarm my position, the redshirts had no chance of hitting the small and deadly targets. Even in the late game, I split my squad of six into task forces of two or three and attack from multiple directions.
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Private
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28385]
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Fri, 08 October 2004 18:25
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| AZAZEL |
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Messages:750
Registered:February 2004 |
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Guess I'm kinda' stuck in rutines,cause I can't remember the last time I attacked a sector from multiple directions.In towns,my team usually enters from the closest point from a roof.Also,only esthetics(hearing the coments and praises) dictates that my team has more than 3 mercs engaged directly in combat- no ennemy is(normally) well-armored enough to survive fire from 2 mercs,and the third makes 1-2 steps closer to the position of engagement and gets the interrupt.
Also,I noticed there is no significant difference in loyalty gain in a town between having a team of 3 mercs and one of 6.But there is a (significant) difference between a squad of 1(!),2 and one of 3mercs!
Example:IMP&Ira conquer Drassen:loyalty 88% after the quest(s),no militia trained, but IMP,Ira and somebody(even Flo):91%.(Doreen saw the light and the dark:D)
Conclusion:I don't split my team,and I play with a 4 attack squad,in night time,(with an ambidextrous and an AW specialist)one of the mercs being the reserve...Just in case a grenade needs to be thrown. 
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28388]
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Wed, 13 October 2004 02:27
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1833
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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easiest way to work is having specialized teams for day and night fighting.
additionaly, u need peple to repair items and train militia. They can be flown to wherever they are needed, so no strict squad assignment for them.
as there will be more enemies, you`re teams will grow, having in the later stages of the game a 6men squad of nightops guys (Like Scope, Raven, Stephen, Wolf, Dr q)another one for fighting through daytime (for Instannce Ivan, Igor, Iggy, Reaper and else)and the rest for Militia and repair, such as miguel, raider,Conrad, Ira, Vicki, Static...
like this, the bigger squad size is no drawback, because any fighters is useful and not just an easy target
I normally work like this. One squad conquers a town during the night, the other one conquers another town or defends it during night time. This is also the time, that the equipment of the daylight ops guys can be reparaired without time loss.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28390]
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Thu, 14 October 2004 07:11
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| -CHAZZ- |
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Messages:83
Registered:August 2003
Location: Croatia, Europe |
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So much water is passed under the bridges since i started JA. I mean since the first JA, and the DG etc. In JA2 i used to pick the best mercs i could afford with my limited cash. First was the novice game. A couple of them in fact. Then it hooked me and i started on the middle difficulty, played for a couple of game-days, saw the light(Night-Ops) and relized i was doin OK. Then i restarted on Expert and, playing carefully, eventually snuffed the Queen. Then that wondrous 8000+ 'mod' came out and i was addicted 100%.One of the really few flaws in the game was, IMO, that once you conquer Grumm and Alma, there was barely something between you and Deidranna. Oh yeah, a bunch of tanks, some Bloodcats and a handful of Greys here and there, but, essentially, zilch of enemy squads to fight again and again. Well, maybe in Meduna airport/SAM dunno. Not so in 8000+ mod: there really are 8000 enemies, and ALL possible sectors are filled with max number of enemies, usually about 35 per sector, sometimes can be almost 60 if some patrols and 'punitive squads' converge in the same sector. No way i can win a sector with 40-50 baddies with only one or two mercs. So, i employ a whole 6-merc team. IMP is NO+ambi, Igor and Grunty are always there, Hamous is a must, the game just dont feel 'right' without him, plus he is able to do some incredible shots at extreme weapon range that i think he is cheating.Lately i learned to like Raven, she is performing wonders with that HK-21 of her.That leaves one empty spot, which i fill with Maddog if i am doing urban warfare. If i am inclined to do wilderness 'tours' i pick some new, not yet used merc and baby-sit him while he/she levels up. By that time i hear all/most his/her comments and keep him or pick someone else. I use only one fighting squad at a time, but my roster at home is full. I love to switch from time to time to slack the possible traces of growing boredom.Just recently i learned on this forum that, if you have Ira in the team, every time you enter a sector, she will have her little speech performance about that sector, just like Hamous did back in Metavira (JA1:"Much waderr here, but noo zsnakess") 
As soon as she is done with Drassen Militia, i will squeeze her in my combat team
Chazz.
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28396]
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Mon, 01 November 2004 07:27
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| Headshot |
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Messages:176
Registered:May 2002
Location: Los Angeles ( Hollywood )... |
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I dont use constant save and reloads which will allow anybody to take on almost all of the country alone.
When you play Ironman rules ( with Locals or MERC/Locals ONLY )which has NO save/reloads ( even if someone dies ), you can never afford the solo attitude. As I see it, going solo comes from the save/reload syndrome.
I alway try and have at least 3 to 4 mercs ( characters ) in a squad ( fireteam ) and as many squads as I can muster going into any battle. Playing smart and having enough firepower to handle the job at hand is essential to victory with minimum risk to your crew. I play as If I were on the battle field and " I Don't Want to Die " nor have any of my crew take foolish risks which could get them killed.
I would like to see, watch, or read, a real account of someone taking out a midlevel game map Solo playing Ironman. It might happen but to play a whole game that way would never happen.
Everyone has his or her own style of play. For those of you out there that like to save and reload alot, great, have fun and enjoy the game, as that is what it is all about. For me, the challange is in playing without any reloads and making it all the way through a game, knowing real deaths, and victory or defeat, based upon tactics and skill.
Have fun ...
Headshot
If you have never tried a Game of Ironman give it a try... you may never go back to your save and reload way of playing.
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Staff Sergeant
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28398]
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Tue, 02 November 2004 07:30
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| -CHAZZ- |
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Messages:83
Registered:August 2003
Location: Croatia, Europe |
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I always use one 6-merc team split in 2 groups of 3 mercs. All my sectors have 30-50 bad guys, so with 2 groups not very much spread apart i can clean the sector with relative efficiency and confidence.So, basically there are 2 spotters backed up with 2 good shooters with FAL's, C-7's or/and SAW's.Works for me, especially after i acquired Conrad and Cougar.When they got some levels, they are doing really fine, even if i play mostly N.Ops battles and they are not night-ops operatives. My IMP,Raven and Grunty are NO, tho.
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28400]
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Sat, 23 April 2005 09:49
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| plop |
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Messages:43
Registered:December 2000
Location: Louisiana |
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I play without reloads. That means full squads only. At the early stages of the game with SKS and no scopes you cannot survive a large bloodcat attack with a small squad. Also, any elite with UV goggles and a LAW can really ruin your day.
I've soloed the game with just IMP and no reloads. So have others. Get scopes from the hicks and UVG's from the sniper in Alma, then run through the towns killing everyone from rooftops. Train militia, repair everything, doctor yourself, plant mines. Level 10 comes quickly. When you're suitably equipped (FAMAS with rod/spring, smoke, regens, energy boosts, camo, full coated spectra) sneak past the defenses in Meduna and get into the bunker. Once you're in there I'd say you have about a 10% chance of winning. It's hard but not impossible.
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Corporal
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28401]
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Sun, 24 April 2005 12:03
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| DaethWalker |
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Messages:98
Registered:September 2003
Location: Rocky Point, NC |
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Obviously it will vary. Depending on play style, whether or not mods are added and whether or not you are playing easy mode with save/reloads or expert ironman, etc...
I usually play the 1st 1/3 - 1/2 of the game with a full six man team, which then gets reduced down to a 4 man team. Regular JA2 can easily be handled solo or with a 2 man team, even with no saves, but I haven't had as much success doing so with the mods I've played.
Even so, I still usually play with at least 4 man squads. Not only to have access to "mules". But, to also put a bit more variety into the kills. I like the combat chatter between squad members and I like the variety of ways each does his own killing.
I get bored just clearing a sector with my IMP (NO Expert/Psyco). So, I now usually use him to bait the bad guys into ambushes and hold him in reserve in case the others get into trouble.
I've even switched to more day ops, just to give the bad guys a better chance.
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28402]
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Wed, 04 May 2005 10:55
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| Holywhippet |
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Messages:25
Registered:March 2003
Location: Canberra, Australia |
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Quote:Originally posted by plop:
I play without reloads. That means full squads only. At the early stages of the game with SKS and no scopes you cannot survive a large bloodcat attack with a small squad. Also, any elite with UV goggles and a LAW can really ruin your day.
I've soloed the game with just IMP and no reloads. So have others. Get scopes from the hicks and UVG's from the sniper in Alma, then run through the towns killing everyone from rooftops. Train militia, repair everything, doctor yourself, plant mines. Level 10 comes quickly. When you're suitably equipped (FAMAS with rod/spring, smoke, regens, energy boosts, camo, full coated spectra) sneak past the defenses in Meduna and get into the bunker. Once you're in there I'd say you have about a 10% chance of winning. It's hard but not impossible. I still think the bunker is a bit of a ripoff. At first glance it seems like a stealthy way in. But as soon as you come out you are greeted by Dedriana's military commander who begins shooting at you. Even if you buy him off he'll always have a shot at you first which puts the place into high alert. That being said, Dedriana's heavily guarded throne room can be taken down by planting explosives at the door then carefully clearing the room by gradually extending your firing arc - or tossing in a lot of grenades.
BTW, is it possible to ambush the Queen in her bunker? I know that if you assault her palace head on she'll retreat into the bunker - I've never been sure if you could capture the bunker with Team A and then send Team B to assault the palace head on, forcing the queen to go down into the bunker to run into Team A.
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28406]
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Sun, 29 May 2005 10:42
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| MagicJuggler |
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Messages:24
Registered:January 2005 |
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Me, I tried doing "RPG-style" and use only my main IMP Merc and local mercenaries. I would travel to towns, never quite liberate them, but would eliminate everybody and take their stuff. I managed to get Dimitri and Ira in my team (Ira was about MRK 70 after I was done), and used the team to clear out the Hillbilly house. It was an intense battle, with Ira using an M870, and the guys armed with MP5s. I took wounds so after the battle (and getting the Grenade Launcher and enough ordnance to take on Cambria), I decided to rest. Bad move. 5 minutes later, a 12-man red patrol moves in, so I have to run into the hillbilly building and fortify it with mines, marbles, etc. After this, I was out of ammo, and they didn't leave jack squat, so I quit and restarted.
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28408]
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Sat, 25 June 2005 23:17
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| AZAZEL |
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Messages:750
Registered:February 2004 |
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I'll stick with the four squad,if you don't mind.
It's small enough for me to use all 4 members,and large enough to cope with any threat.
On the other hand,since the styling advantage always had the upper hand over the tactical one in my case,I have 4 squads of four spread on the map by the time I have all the 5 mines under control.
For example,in my last Wildfire game, these squads are:
1)Miguel,Carlos,Ira,Dimitri
2)IMP,Raven,Len,Dr Q(the all blacks)
3)Ivan,Igor,Iggy,Robot
4)Wolf,Fox,Grizzly,Maddog
And each of these teams carries a collection of FNs,Ms,HK and russian weapons.
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28409]
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Tue, 28 June 2005 04:38
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| Apocalypse |
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Messages:5
Registered:August 2004
Location: New York |
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Early in the game I have a 3/4 person squad, but later I usually stick with 6 people on my squad, for the simple sake of carrying all the junk I like to have around. I usually have one guy carry LAWs, another carry a grenade launcher, another carry explosives (TNT/C1 etc.) and a fourth carry a mortar. The 5/6 slot are a medic and a mechanic.
Also, I picked up the 8000+ mod, and even in night ops I have alot of trouble working with only three or four people. I'm not even attempting to play it ironman style, but I really don't like constant reloading from being outflanked, overwhelmed, grenaded, or otherwise gunned down.
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Private
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28410]
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Wed, 29 June 2005 02:59
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| AZAZEL |
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Messages:750
Registered:February 2004 |
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Which brings us back to standardisation.
A squad should have a doctor,a mechanic,an explosives expert,and a high leadership teaching/public relations specialist.It would be ideal to have an ambidextrous(silenced pair,also equipped with a long range-fast firing weapon,an auto weapons specialist,and a sniper,with the necessary tools in their hands,and a fourth member carrying a fast firing thing like the Abakan or G11(psycho or not).Also,a night ops skill, a throwing skill and a lockpicking skill(!) is good to have in every squad.
Which leads us to a minimum of four members for the squad to have in able to perform all required task.The lack of a skill can be compensated by high stats in this minimal nucleus.(i.e. high mech/dex/wis for lockpicking,str/dex for throwing,wis/dex/mrk/lvl for heavy weapons,and so on)
I experimented on the 8000 mod with a 4 squad,the game being implanted on a 1.12 version,where the ennemies do outflank and throw shit at our mercs(especially at night).My strike team was Len(aw)-Vicky(ambi)-Dr.Q(sniper)-IMP(psycho night ops expert)And it all came down to make maximum use of the roofs and fighting in the corners of the wilderness sectors,not advancing far enough to be flanked.
In the night,I used this tactic: place mercs in the corner,throw 3 break lights some 20 squares(right,left,diagonal) away to set up a death perimeter,pick them out one by one.Didn't even need to reload...
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28413]
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Fri, 19 August 2005 04:18
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| Alexi |
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Messages:2
Registered:August 2005 |
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For me it really depends on each specific game played. Once I played most of the game with only my player character actually entering into combat (the other guys were for repairing/medical/militia training). The game this way was incrediably quick paced and each battle was action intense. Playing solo like that kinda felt like playing a 3d-shooter or an action game. Most of the time however, I try to bring 16 guys into combat in 4 squads of four. I build each squad for specific tasks/missions ie. One squad is for outdoor combat and is armed with long range weapons, while another squad is designated for close quarters and is armed with SMG's and grenades. I also make 'engineering squads consiting of lockpickers and explosives experts as well as recon and sniper squads who usually spearhead attacks on important sectors by arriving 1-5 minits before the other squads. Playing this way I believe is a better representation of what the guys at Sirtech probably had in mind for the game, and encourages strategic gameplay. However, if all you want is non-stop shooting maybe and a campaign that doesnt take three months to beat you should probably fight with 1-4 guys.
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Civilian
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| Re: Tactical advantage of squad sizes[message #28418]
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Sat, 03 September 2005 20:36
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| AZAZEL |
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Messages:750
Registered:February 2004 |
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Quote:Originally posted by Ash:
Where's the fun in taking only your IMP to the end? There are so many fun mercs to choose from I often have problems deciding who to take to the end You do not sound like a recruit.
Taking IMP chars to the end,to level 10 and 100 in statistics, is an early stage in a player's JA2 commander career,in this officer's opinion.
Being able to command and know those chars,and collect great talent in a "tons of fun" team is another.
Minimal nucleus constructions like:
-Gus-Len-Vicky,Dr.Q
-Wolf-Fox-Grizzly-Lynx
-Ice-Blood-Magic-Reaper
that are completed by superlative specialists like Spider-Static,Trevor-Thor,Scope-Sidney,Raven-Raider,the Shadow or the Cougar,knowing when and how to use them,how to play to their strengths,
are already another level of play,that brings a good player closer to a full enjoyment.
Allready said to much,and haven't drank enough.
:cheers:
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