Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Coding Talk » Folding Stock Revamp
| Folding Stock Revamp[message #284904]
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Tue, 28 June 2011 08:40 
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 Zundman7301 |
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Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA |
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Hey, guys
I originally wrote a lot of the gun descriptions back when 1.13 was in its infancy. I also rewrote the shotgun system. It's been a while since I've posted, but I download the new SVN every year or so and play through the game. I have to say I've been really impressed. The game gets better every time I play it! You guys have done an awesome job.
I'm writing now to suggest a change to the folding stock mechanics of the game. It's never jived with me that a weapon with a folding stock has a draw bonus, but a burst penalty and that's it. It doesn't seem to be a true representation of how a folding stock works. I've been gone a while, so you'll have to forgive me if I'm repeating a previous thread, but I'd like to suggest that the folding stock system be revamped so that folding stocks can be "folded" and "unfolded" with a keystroke and by placing a symbol on the gun icon to symbolize the switch, much the same way guns are switched from single fire to burst and auto.
When the folding stock is "in," the user ought to get their draw bonus, but the gun ought to suffer higher burst penalties (to represent the difficulty of firing an automatic weapon with no (or barely any) stock. The gun ought to also suffer a penalty to its accuracy rating to represent the difficulty of firing a weapon with little to no stock to help stabilize it. When the stock is "out," the user will no longer suffer an accuracy penalty, but will still suffer a minor burst penalty depending on the type of folding stock used, or no burst penalty at all (I can tell you from personal experience that telescopic stocks, like on the M4a1, are functionally no different when fully deployed than a solid fixed-stock on the same gun). Less stable folding stocks, such as the true wire-frame folding stocks on many of the AK models, will still impart a minor burst penalty when extended as they are more uncomfortable and unstable to use than a solid fixed-stock. To extend the stock the player must spend the amount of AP's equal to the draw bonus given to the weapon when the stock is "in" (e.g.: Folding stock imparts a draw bonus of -7 AP's when it is folded in, so the user must spend 7 AP's to deploy the stock). This system gives the player the actual benefits of using a folding stock while imparting more realistic penalties (maybe folded stocks would give an interrupt bonus too? I don't know if that would play well with other existing game mechanics. But it's just a thought). This kind of functionality would also set folding-stock weapons apart from their fixed-stock counterparts, especially if the draw bonuses were raised to slightly higher values to give the players an actual edge when it comes to drawing the weapon (Time to go CQB and enter that warehouse? Fold up your stock to give yourself the extra maneuverability required in such a close setting.)
I hope that's not a redundant idea, but I think it could add another great layer of richness to the game, especially with the way the new NTCH system allows you to realistically rake fire over your target. It would really give folding stock weapons the "spray and pray" characteristics they were designed for.
Also, on an unrelated note, for the next update I'd like to rewrite some of the item and gun descriptions to be less dry and more entertaining. I've also noticed some grammatical and contextual errors on some of the item descriptions I originally wrote that I'd like to fix too. If you guys are interested, I'd love to help out again.
Thanks, guys. It's good to be here again.
Z
[Updated on: Tue, 28 June 2011 08:43] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Folding Stock Revamp[message #284955]
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Tue, 28 June 2011 21:27 
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2813
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Essentially too I wasn't happy with the "official" folding stock system which is something along the lines of: assuming that the stock is folded for a fraction of the time on average, incur a fraction of benefits and penalties at all times... (StarWalker can explain the official system better than I can.) And I decided to see what could be done purely with XML manipulation.
Folding Stock System (now in its 3rd iteration, 4th if you count the NCTH addon's) is on the surface described by the following from page 10 of the UC-1.13 documentation:
Quote:Use of the folding stock will change a weapon from one form (item index) to another. Each form will have different stats, but in general:
Folded Stock - Lower AP costs vs. Lower To-Hit%
Extended Stock - Higher To-Hit% vs. Higher AP Costs
To use:
1. Stock in Top Right Stock Slot is for folded out/extended/in-use stock
2. Stock in Bottom Right Stock Slot is for folded away/retracted/in-storage stock
3. two clicks are required, first to convert the stock, second to attach to the wanted stock slot
Under the hood, v2 and v3 uses an unexpected property of New Attachment System (NAS), where an item that is set to attach to a specific slot will not trigger any mergers it is also setup for with the weapon. Each weapon with a folding stock is set with a single slot the Folding Stock System (FSS) item will attach to. Moving the FSS item to any other slot will trigger a merger. Another property is that the slot moves relative to the other form of the weapon, so there is the illusion that the stock's position defines its mode, in reality any attachment slot other than the "legal" slot for attachment will trigger the conversion.
Updating on what JMich noted earlier, in v3 the FSS item has no modifying attributes, all it does is trigger a non-destructive USE merger that transforms the weapon into a copy of the weapon with additional modifiers to represent its stock folded/unfolded mode.
Though some consider the overhead high (even without a working XMLEditor at the time, it wasn't that bad):
- very specific traits for the alternate form of each weapon, instead folded stock always = 30% lower AP, etc...
- Graphical representation of when the stock is folded, this is the high overhead part, but it was entirely my choice to create graphics of each gun in its alternate stock mode
For more information please see UC-1.13 v3.50 (and the v3.51 Cumulative Patch) that is noted in my signature.
[Updated on: Tue, 28 June 2011 21:56] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Folding Stock Revamp[message #285357]
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Sat, 02 July 2011 19:03
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| E4MC |
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Messages:6
Registered:August 2007
Location: Arizona, USA |
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Hi guys. I haven't been around for a while, but I'm still playing this game all the time.
Regarding folding/retractable stocks, I don't see any real reason for them to have any effect on game mechanics. The only reason a firearm has a folding stock is to make it more compact so it can be more easily carried inside a vehicle or while parachuting. Retractable stocks are used the same as folding stocks but also serve to slightly reduce the length of the stock so the firearm is more maneuverable while wearing bulky body armor. When patrolling on foot in a combat environment, only an idiot would have his stock folded/retracted because there is no reason to, and even when wearing bulky body armor, the firearm would be carried with the stock retracted to the appropriate length for use with the body armor.
I guess I can see a situation where a merc might switch between wearing and not wearing body armor that would necessitate extending/retracting a retractable stock, but seeing how this game allows mercs to put on and take off items of equipment at no action point cost, I don't know why the simple act of manipulating a stock would cost action points. I think it would be easier to just have the game assume the stock is extended to the appropriate length when in combat.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 July 2011 19:04] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Folding Stock Revamp[message #287687]
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Tue, 26 July 2011 17:43
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| E4MC |
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Messages:6
Registered:August 2007
Location: Arizona, USA |
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ChrisL@E4MC: A weapon with a folding/retractable stock in it's "collapsed" configuration results in a more maneuverable weapon, so a reduction in the Ready AP cost is warranted. But at the same time, recoil is harder to control because you've removed one of the contact points, so shot AP cost (which includes the time it takes to recover from the shot) would suffer a bit and recoil control would be worse (so higher burst/autofire penalty in OCTH and CFA penalty in NCTH).
Well, I think you missed the point of what I was trying to say. I'm a former U.S. Marine so I can tell you that in the real world, contrary to Hollywood, combatants do not walk around shooting from the hip with their stock folded/retracted. If your stock is folded/retracted you might as well be carrying a paper weight because that is about all your weapon is good for in that configuration. It will take longer to get a sight/scope picture because you don't have the butt of the rifle in your shoulder and your cheek welded to the stock in the position your body has become accustomed to, which means it takes longer to aim the weapon so there would be an increase in AP cost to ready the weapon, not a reduction. And the weapon will be uncontrollable from shot to shot because you won't be able to control recoil/muzzle flip, increasing AP cost for every shot. So I ask you, taking all this into consideration, why would any merc walk around with their stock folded/retracted?
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