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Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295004] Mon, 12 December 2011 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wanne (aka RoWa21)

 
Messages:1974
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Headrock
Map Screen Interface Map Inventory.cpp, function SellItem()

At every instance where bLoop is declared, change INT8 to UINT8. Also should change bLoop to ubLoop throughout the function to maintain readability.

Takes 20 seconds. Smile


thanks


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295014] Mon, 12 December 2011 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Iv'e fixed the crate-splitting bug reported by Tao. It was caused by trying to draw the crate's name (for displaying the log message) AFTER the crate's been deleted. Razz

As with the above fixes, this will be available in a coming update.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295018] Mon, 12 December 2011 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
REUPLOAD

HAM 5.4a has been reuploaded. You only need the EXE if you're up to date.

This version includes the three bugfixes reported above:

1) Sorting buttons should no longer be visible while in combat.

2) If more than 127 items are in a stack in the sector inventory, you will no longer experience a freeze when pressing ALT+SHIFT (or trying to sell them, as would happen in a non HAM game).

3) Crate-splitting in the merc's inventory no longer crashes when no bullets remain in the crate after filling the merc's inventory to capacity.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295023] Tue, 13 December 2011 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
REUPLOAD

HAM 5.4a has been reuploaded. Link is in the opening post.

This version fixes a bug discovered by TomFrame (on IRC). The item filters were not set to show thrown knives in any other filter. They will now be shown with the Melee Weapons filter as intended.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295037] Tue, 13 December 2011 05:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:61
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Here are a couple of interesting bugs, using the latest version (5.4a):

In a sector with your inventory sorted all nice and kentucky, take an ammo clip from your merc's inventory, drop it into an open space in the sector inventory, and click on the "stack and merge items" button. The clip will jump to the end of the inventory. Indeed, if you move another item in the inventory somewhere else and put the clip in the space it had occupied, then it will stay there when you press the button, and the moved item will jump to the end of the queue. The algorithm is filling in holes, but it's not resorting the inventory like I had expected. (I had assumed the clip would move to either before or after the crate of the same ammo, or indeed, possibly even merge with it.) Not sure if this is working as you had intended or not.

Next, this time do the same thing only hit the "sort ammunition into crates" button. What happens on my machine is the clip is merged into the crate as expected, but the image of the clip remains in the slot it had occupied. If I then try to select it, I can't (because it's not actually there), and if I pick up any other item in the inventory, the ghost clip disappears. Occasionally, the ghost clip disappears on its own after a few seconds.

Finally, when either alt-tabbing out of (or into, I'm not quite sure which) JA2 with the sector inventory open, the ALT key is registered as depressed, until I tap it again to clear it. I'm pretty sure this isn't a case of my keyboard sticking, as this does so with either ALT key, and the second one is used so rarely that there's absolutely no reason for it to stick. At first I didn't notice what was going on and inadvertently sold off some stuff when clicking on items. Depending on just how observant the player is and how automatic their quicksave response is, this could potentially lead to a tragic "NOOOOOOOO!..." moment.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295045] Tue, 13 December 2011 06:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Not sure if this is working as you had intended or not.


It's intentional in that I wanted to prevent the significant processing times involved in resorting the inventory - they seem to be quite long. That's why it's called "Stack & Merge" and not "Sort, Stack and Merge"... I was hoping to add a FIFTH button that triggers a sorting - but I ran out of space in 800x600. Razz

I might be able to utilize the space now that there is one less Filter button.

Quote:
Next, this time do the same thing only hit the "sort ammunition into crates" button.


Thanks, I'll need to add a command to refresh the screen, apparently.

Quote:
Finally, when either alt-tabbing out of (or into, I'm not quite sure which) JA2 with the sector inventory open, the ALT key is registered as depressed, until I tap it again to clear it.


This is one of the oldest bugs in the book. But what surprises me is that you could inadvertently sell your items -- because in HAM 5.4 pressing ALT shows item prices on the screen! Averting the bug was one of the reasons why price display was requested in the first place! ... Are you sure you are using the latest HAM?


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295049] Tue, 13 December 2011 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dinglehopper

 
Messages:134
Registered:January 2008
So, i have been thinking a lot about your ideal (i am pretty sure it was near the beginning of this thread) to redo the coolness levels for weapons to make NCTH better. I did some restructuring of my own and tried it out, here is what i found.

It does indeed make NCTH and by proxy the game itself much more fun. But it completely breaks OCTH, mostly because OCTH is based on range more than anything, NCTH is not.

A lot of people still use OCTH, smeagol even makes OCTH the default for aimnas and though there is an unoficial NCTH patch for aimnas it is not set up right.

So i have been thinking about how to fix this. And there is sadly no easy way. At first i thought making wo seperate XML files was best, but as someone who tinkers with the xmls a lot, it did not take long to realize what a nightmare keeping up with two sets of xmls was. So to make a long story short, the best way would be to add a new field to all the weapons called NCTHcoolness or something. But this is still not an easy fix, because the enemy equipment tables and the drop tables need to be restructured. The way i see it, they need to either have two copies each (one for ncth and one for octh) or they need to be eliminated from the game.

Obviously removing the need for them is going to be the easiest solution for moders, by far. What i think would replace them is the enemy would get to choose anything from the current coolness level or maybe sometimes one or two coolness levels up or down. I actually think that makes sense anyways, if you can buy it on bobby rays, shouldn't diedranna and her men be able to as well?

I admit i know little about the drop tables, I almost always play with enemy drop all turned on. But i would imagine they need some solution other than having to have two of them. Imp and merc starting gears may also be a problem.

Finally, if you make these changes, the ability to change between octh and ncth during a game needs to be removed. The player needs to choose at the beginning, and stick with his /her choice.

DH
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295052] Tue, 13 December 2011 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3698
Registered:July 2009
dinglehopper
A lot of people still use OCTH, smeagol even makes OCTH the default for aimnas and though there is an unoficial NCTH patch for aimnas it is not set up right.
Any data-side restructuring of 1.13 has zero impact on AIMNAS or any other mod with its own item set.
dinglehopper
But it completely breaks OCTH, mostly because OCTH is based on range more than anything, NCTH is not.
Actually, what it does is break with the stupid Vanilla progression of everyone going to war with pistols. It bothers a lot of people, hence the popularity of alternate enemy gun choices with a more sensible premise. Btw, AIMNAS progression is in fact pretty close to an NCTH model. You'll encounter rifles and smg's in Omerta and old MGs not long after. The only faction that'll have a problem with it is the die hard, Vanilla at all costs crowd.
dinglehopper
What i think would replace them is the enemy would get to choose anything from the current coolness level or maybe sometimes one or two coolness levels up or down. I actually think that makes sense anyways, if you can buy it on bobby rays, shouldn't diedranna and her men be able to as well?
Nope, it doesn't. It's an entirely different thing if you want to buy 3 rifles for a private company (/ LE / SF) or need to equip an army.
dinglehopper
I admit i know little about the drop tables, I almost always play with enemy drop all turned on.
The drop tables that are used when drop all is off just give general percentages like 'armor has a 30% chance of dropping' - they need not concern us.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295061] Tue, 13 December 2011 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
knightofni

 
Messages:98
Registered:August 2011
Hey dinglehopper, as you've given some thought to coolness, maybe you participate to the NCTH Coolness reworking ? Just open the spreadsheet and grab your very own column.

Thread

Spreadsheet
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295073] Tue, 13 December 2011 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:61
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Headrock
This is one of the oldest bugs in the book. But what surprises me is that you could inadvertently sell your items -- because in HAM 5.4 pressing ALT shows item prices on the screen! Averting the bug was one of the reasons why price display was requested in the first place! ... Are you sure you are using the latest HAM?


Oh, it's not too hard when you're tired, believe me. Very Happy It took me a few seconds to realize what all the red numbers meant and by then I had tried to move an item in the sector inventory. A sticky ALT plus the LEFT CLICK of the mouse to select the item and SOLD! I'd like to think I won't make the same mistake again, but...

Incidentally, (and now that I know what it is!) I love the price display, not to mention the new filter buttons. The buttons feel much more natural then right-clicking to bring up a menu of things to filter on or off that you had before.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295083] Tue, 13 December 2011 18:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:61
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Here's another, using the latest version of 5.4a:

My pugilist klepto IMP and his night ops spotter have entered a sector under cover of darkness to intercept a small force of Deidrianna's not-quite-finest who are intent on recapturing Chitzena. Having just placed my mercs on the map, I open up the sector inventory (which is understandably empty) and see that various icons have been disabled. I click on some of them anyway. When I click on the eye-con or any of the filter options next to it, I get a crash-to-desktop.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295091] Tue, 13 December 2011 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dinglehopper

 
Messages:134
Registered:January 2008
DepressivesBrot
dinglehopper
A lot of people still use OCTH, smeagol even makes OCTH the default for aimnas and though there is an unoficial NCTH patch for aimnas it is not set up right.
Any data-side restructuring of 1.13 has zero impact on AIMNAS or any other mod with its own item set.

Correct, but if we make it impossible or really hard to balance the game for both NCTH and OCTH the modders will be far more reluctant to do it, they will simply pick one and that will be it. So aimnas will essentially be forever OCTH, UC and DL will likely move to NCTH only, and anyone who wants to play those the other way will be SOL.
DepressivesBrot
dinglehopper
But it completely breaks OCTH, mostly because OCTH is based on range more than anything, NCTH is not.
Actually, what it does is break with the stupid Vanilla progression of everyone going to war with pistols. It bothers a lot of people, hence the popularity of alternate enemy gun choices with a more sensible premise. Btw, AIMNAS progression is in fact pretty close to an NCTH model. You'll encounter rifles and smg's in Omerta and old MGs not long after. The only faction that'll have a problem with it is the die hard, Vanilla at all costs crowd.

I disagree with it being close to a NCTH ideal model as headrock explained the ideal. The NCTH aimnas patch is actually what i used to tinker with. I believe the coolness levels were not messed with for the NCTH patch. You get pretty much all the pistols by coolness 5, only the g11 pdw is a 6 and ucp is a 7 (which really didn't make any sense). I made the g11 and ucp both 10, the five seven 9 and pretty much doubled the rest and went back and ticked a few down or up a cooless to fill in the odd coolness levels. The end result is a few of the really crappy handguns stayed at 1, the rest all changed, many drastically. And the pistols was by far the easiest to do. To get a decent spread like Headrock suggests, a lot of changes are necessary in aimnas and every other item set i have peeked at.
DepressivesBrot
dinglehopper
What i think would replace them is the enemy would get to choose anything from the current coolness level or maybe sometimes one or two coolness levels up or down. I actually think that makes sense anyways, if you can buy it on bobby rays, shouldn't diedranna and her men be able to as well?
Nope, it doesn't. It's an entirely different thing if you want to buy 3 rifles for a private company (/ LE / SF) or need to equip an army.

Well, that depends on the army. If it is regulars, then yah, they are all issued weapons and the issued weapons are really similar across the board. But arulco doesn't stike me as a regular army situation, it seems more like she has a mix of mercenary groups, regulars, and pressed irregulars. Mercenaries bring their own weapons, and irregulars typically use whatever they can get their hands on.
DepressivesBrot
dinglehopper
I admit i know little about the drop tables, I almost always play with enemy drop all turned on.
The drop tables that are used when drop all is off just give general percentages like 'armor has a 30% chance of dropping' - they need not concern us.
Well that is good news.

[Updated on: Tue, 13 December 2011 21:14] by Moderator

Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295092] Tue, 13 December 2011 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dinglehopper

 
Messages:134
Registered:January 2008
I have looked at the spreadsheets, and i do plan to contribute to it. But i want to play UC first as i haven't played it in a really, really long time. Just seems like i should get familiar with it's feel again before participating in making major changes to it.

My plan was to take it with me when i went to the in laws for Christmas next week, but my in-laws are Luddites and so my wife is telling me i had better leave the laptop home. We'll see how it goes, i don't plan on listening to her but i am not sure how persuasive she plans to get. But since they live in the middle of nowhere, and don't have internet, the earliest i could participate is Jan.

DH
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295093] Tue, 13 December 2011 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3698
Registered:July 2009
dinglehopper
I disagree with it being close to a NCTH ideal model as headrock explained the ideal. [...]
The coolness is only relevant for BR, look at the EnemyGunChoices.xml, pistols from 0 - 10, rifles from 0 onwards, squad automatics from 1 onwards, SMG's and shotguns over the whole range.
Also, the merc starting gear has decent weapons even for the low mercs. So, aside from the stuff you can buy, it is in fact very close.
dinglehopper
But arulco doesn't stike me as a regular army situation, it seems more like she has a mix of mercenary groups, regulars, and pressed irregulars. Mercenaries bring their own weapons, and irregulars typically use whatever they can get their hands on.
We could argue this forever, lets just drop it for now.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295094] Tue, 13 December 2011 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cell

 
Messages:486
Registered:February 2011
User deleted
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295099] Tue, 13 December 2011 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
REUPLOAD

HAM 5.4a has been reuploaded. Link is in the opening post. You'll need to extract everything to make sure you get the new STIs included in this version.

1) Fixed a bug where sorting buttons used during Zoomed inventory mode would leave items on screen that are not actually there. Thanks to ReVurt for spotting this bug.

2) Fixed a bug where using item filters repeatedly in a sector that has no hidden item (i.e. no items in any containers or hidden on the map) would cause a crash. Thanks to Redwolf for spotting this one.

3) Since I couldn't separate the code and needed to get these bugfixes out, I had to include the recent changes to the map icons that should've been available only in HAM 5.4.1. There are three new STIs in the Interface folder to support this feature. At the moment, this will display the movement arrows for merc squads on the map as small blue triangles - removing the number that indicates how many mercs are moving from each sector as it was stupid and took too much space.

I'll respond to all the posts above this one within the next 30 minutes - so don't worry, I am reading what you all are posting.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295102] Wed, 14 December 2011 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
On the Coolness issue:

There is apparently a growing problem with making data for OCTH and NCTH, and this issue was discussed even before I started working on NCTH. My solution was actually the least elegant one: I was hoping to make NCTH _mandatory_. Of course this would mean keeping it out of 1.13, and hoping that public pressure alone would keep it alive and/or eventually force its merger into 1.13 as a mandatory feature as well. Of course this was a pipedream, because eventually it was integrated into 1.13 as an option (with arguable results).

Since OCTH and NCTH are currently coexisting, there seems to be no escape from making the XMLs separate. Items.XML already looks like a big mess, and I would imagine that new modders are discouraged by the fact that they have to learn which tags they need to edit to affect one system and not the other (and some tags are shared... making it even more confusing). Separate XMLs would at least solve this problem.

Of course, I am not really concerned about mods being split along the NCTH/OCTH line either. UC is now setting a fine example of how an NCTH-centric mod can do wonders with NCTH, and poor Smeagol is coming under increasing pressure to adapt AIMNAS to NCTH as well (to his detriment sadly, but to the benefit of everyone else). I hope that once NCTH proves itself as the superior system in UC, this pressure will increase and apply to all mods - thereby achieving my original nefarious intents.

Until then however, it's clear that modders wanting to appeal to both crowds WILL need to make two sets of XMLs, but with two separate XMLs it'll also be easier for them to appeal to one crowd or the other - and to make mods in the first place due to separating all these factors.

However I do intend to take this one step further by introducing item templates. Essentially, this will be an XML containing "proto-items", which can then be built upon very simply. As a result, one set of templates could then be used to create surprisingly short OCTH-Items.XML and NCTH-Items.XML files without too much work involved.

On a completely different issue:

ReVurt
When I click on the eye-con or any of the filter options next to it, I get a crash-to-desktop.


I think this is related to the same problem I just fixed where the filters crash the game if there are no hidden items. Please let me know if it does work now.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295104] Wed, 14 December 2011 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:61
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Headrock
I think this is related to the same problem I just fixed where the filters crash the game if there are no hidden items. Please let me know if it does work now.


Definitely not fixed. I'm doing this in a sector where there are no items on the ground or in containers, period.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295105] Wed, 14 December 2011 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
LOL, turns out it _WAS_ the same issue, except I had only fixed half the problem. I fixed the part that failed to handle what happens when there are no UNSEEN items - while forgetting to fix the part that handles what happens when there are no SEEN items.

Reuploaded, grab the EXE from the file.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295149] Wed, 14 December 2011 19:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:61
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
And all is quiet on the Alpha front.

If I run across some bugs or issues that are clearly/probably not HAM related, should I still mention them here?
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295150] Wed, 14 December 2011 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
I'll take any bug reports related to the mapscreen (and/or inventory), description box and NCTH. If you think a bug MIGHT be related to HAM 5, post it here.

[Updated on: Thu, 15 December 2011 03:55] by Moderator



Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295193] Thu, 15 December 2011 03:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
By the way, this thread isn't just for bug reports. I want opinions as well, and it would be fun to hear from you guys who are having awesome NCTH battles - esp. with the latest UC item mod (NCTH-optimized weapons, fragmentation, transformations and all that).


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295198] Thu, 15 December 2011 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
knightofni

 
Messages:98
Registered:August 2011
Since my HAM5/AFS game is on hold (due to movement bug reported above), i started a new game with UC 1.13 RC5 + HAM5

AI Comments (go Warmsteel !)
x I've noticed several times that enemy soldiers that couldn't see me (so probably in 'Red' mode, because i was hunting for the last few guys) are were just crouching somewhere. I arrived behind them - out of APs - end turn, but then they just stayed crouching, while i'd expect them to turn around to check their surroundings (and fire at me)

x Two blackshirts took cover between a wall and a truck (that's UC)- which was parallel to the wall. That means they essentially had no line of sight - except a tiny little bit on the sides, so it was a child's play to punch them to death and steal their loot.
Note : not sure whether those guys were in red or black mode, though likely black.

x AI is very idiotic when assaulting an open door with a merc behind. On of my merc was alone (wounded, left behind, weakest of my team), guarding a door, and around 6 to 7 redshirts came as reinforcements. Four turns in a row they sent one guy only - which i killed -instead of attacking as a group.

x A merc is in a room, and somehow the AI knows he's in, as i can hear them gathering next to the wall. However it can take them 5 to 10 turns to actually try to attack. Interestingly, as soon as i exited combat mode, the AI understood where the door was, and entered in the room within 10 seconds of combat mode exit. Situation happened twice in pretty different layouts.

Gameplay / NCTH comments
[Game stage : late game armour, assault rifles with no scope]
[Note : when i use the word "accuracy", i refer to the CTH, not the weapon's accuracy]

x [still] No point in using rifles (may change with scopes). Accuracy is not high enough to compensate for high AP costs.

x [still] No point in using long barrel shotguns. Because of their high AP costs and average accuracy, slugs miss too often to be useful. I had some pretty decent results using buckshot + duckbill. Damage is not that high against armoured opponents, but suppression / AP removal is quite satisfying. Unfortunately, very high reload costs and low mag make it a inferior choice. I changed to a simple skorpion during combat, and got better results.
Nota : This comment doesn't apply to short barrel shotguns, who perform pretty fine at a very short range.

x Haven't suffered much from grenades, but did die once due to a trapped container. Actually, that's probably the first game where I use more grenades than the ennemy, but no frag grenades yet (very recent availability, will use soon)

x MP's with stock perform very well in most combat situation - except at max visual range (20+). Auto-fire, relatively
accurate, low AP cost, ammo is plentiful. All my mercs still carry one (Skorpion, PM-63, Agram, ...) and use them as often as their main weapon, if not more.

x AR's are absolutely necessary for long range firefights. Their other advantage over MP's is their harder hitting caliber. However, once closing below say 15-20 tiles range, MP's (with stock) are a superior choice in most situations. Another disadvantage of AR's is that ammo is hard to get by, which pretty much restrict you to single shots and burst in emergency. This means that i can hit / suppress much more effectively with my MP's - especially considering HAM5 rework of autofire.

x SMG's are pretty good in (very) early game due to their slightly longer range over MP's, but i've stopped using them, as they are outclassed by AR's at long range and by MP's at short to medium range. The only SMG is still use is the MP5 due to its extremely low handling value + burst ability.

x AR's with foldable stocks behave more or less as high-end SMG's, therefore not terribly useful. I just kept using an AKMSU - but that's because i've started the game with kobra sights, and UC is quite greedy with attachements so far (i'm so happy when i get a flash suppressor ! 0_o)


To reduce a bit MP's efficiency, i've made the following modifications to CTHconstants :
RANGE_COEFFICIENT = 0.8
GRAVITY_COEFFICIENT = 10.0 // So bullets don't fall off so fast

This way most MP's max effective range is around 15-16 tiles, while this doesn't significantly affect AR's. I hope this will give back some use to SMG's, but haven't tested this yet. Ideally we should have MP's at short range, SMG's at mid range, and AR's at max visual range.

Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295199] Thu, 15 December 2011 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
knightofni

 
Messages:98
Registered:August 2011
Sorry for double posting. Managed to upload the saves related to previous bug report.
Version used : AFS, HAM 5.5

knightofni
Bug report
- Game breaking bug : right after picking up Hamous, all mercs (even the Heli)are unable to leave their square.

Save #1

knigtofni
- Very annoying bug :
1. When boxing in San Mona, Darren accused me of cheating when i didn't. Couldnt get out of it, solution was to kill 'em all.

Save #2
knightofni
SOLVED2. After killing kingpin and his cronies, i stole his money and reappeared in some house in San MOna. In the fight that followed, there's an unavoidable CTD. Solution was to leave the combat (go back to mine). Entering San Mona again (but not from underground) allowed me to finish them without CTD.

Save #3
knightofni
- Minor Annoyances
1. In CHitzena, some ennemies have attacked my militia. They are still in the city, but no fighting is happening. I haven't been there to check (the mine ran out, so my interest in the city too)

The last bug can be seen in Save #1

[Updated on: Fri, 16 December 2011 03:25] by Moderator

Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295203] Thu, 15 December 2011 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
howareyou32

 
Messages:419
Registered:March 2009
Location: New York, New York
thanks Rock
I enjoy the new features very much
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295241] Thu, 15 December 2011 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:61
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
An incredibly tiny bug--so inconsequential that I feel kind of lame posting it at all--but what can you do?

When using ALT to show what selling off inventory items will net you, items like (pet) rocks and shovels, presumably which have no price because you're never meant to buy them, show $0, but when you do sell them off you actually get $1 added to your account.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295242] Thu, 15 December 2011 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Interestingly, these items have 0 usPrice (default). Which probably means that the actual value of the sale is set to a minimum of $1 sometime after the mouse-click to sell, and before the amount is added to your balance.

I could change it easily, but the question is: Should it even be possible to sell $0 items at all?


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295243] Thu, 15 December 2011 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cell

 
Messages:486
Registered:February 2011
User deleted
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295244] Thu, 15 December 2011 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Some of that stuff was originally supposed to be a source of income from selling to dealers.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295246] Thu, 15 December 2011 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Sorry for double posting. Managed to upload the saves related to previous bug report.


The saves might be helpful - unless you're using UC, in which I might not be able to test properly.

My guess is that some of these errors are related to something Wil473 mentioned after vehicle externalizations. If so, they stem from 1.13, not HAM, and will only be fixed when HAM is updated to the latest code (or merged into 1.13, whichever comes first). I have no estimate on when either of these things will happen, unfortunately. For now HAM tests only itself.

As to the others, they may or may not stem stem from HAM code, sounds like they might (and I stress, might) be caused by the Green Eggs, which means I'll have to alert Warmsteel - if and when he shows up. Again, if I can load the savegames properly, I'll see if I can solve these bugs myself - but that could take a while.

One important question though is whether you are still encountering these bugs with the latest HAM 5 version, because you reported them a while ago so I have to be sure.

Quote:
[still] No point in using rifles (may change with scopes).


I'm hoping that Wil473's latest coolness reshuffle may solve this issue, because rifles without scopes are and should be pointless. Some rifle-specific scopes, like the ones we have for the older weapons (in vanilla 1.13 it's the ZF-42 or No.32), should appear early on, making the rifles that can take them worth using as DMRs in the early game. With little or not variable power, and no ability to install them on any automatic weapons, you'll have an early-game weapon for accurate fire at sight-range (and possibly beyond-sight-range).

Quote:
[still] No point in using long barrel shotguns.


Perhaps shotgun pellets need to give normal suppression. Now that autofire is much more prevalent, shotguns should be allowed to suppress better, in keeping with the move towards realism. That is, when each pellet would cause as much suppression as a single bullet (or, at least, more than it does now). Similar to how fragmentation works.

[quote]

Quote:
thanks Rock
I enjoy the new features very much


You're welcome. Let me know if anything goes wrong with them.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295251] Fri, 16 December 2011 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:61
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Headrock
I could change it easily, but the question is: Should it even be possible to sell $0 items at all?


I'm fine with selling $0 items for $0. If I'm selling a bunch of items, I'm generally just trying to get rid of inventory clutter anyway. It's like, "Here Manuel, to thank you for taking these ten surplus flak jackets off my hands for a jar full of pennies, I'm going to throw in a free authentic WWII-era entrenching tool and my very own pet rock. You're a credit to your country, Manuel."

You could trash the $0 items, but that requires yet another step, in that you have an extra category of things you can't sell but have to remove using a slightly different mechanic. Getting rid of a bunch of stuff all at once via the selling interface is fine.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295252] Fri, 16 December 2011 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:61
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Headrock
Perhaps shotgun pellets need to give normal suppression. Now that autofire is much more prevalent, shotguns should be allowed to suppress better, in keeping with the move towards realism. That is, when each pellet would cause as much suppression as a single bullet (or, at least, more than it does now). Similar to how fragmentation works.


At the moment, I'm finding shotguns about as useful as teats on a bull. I'm all for increasing the suppression of shotgun pellets.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295257] Fri, 16 December 2011 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1995
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
As long as the shop keepers won't be affected (e.g. Jake is bying shovels for a few bucks), i don't mind if the mentioned scrap gives 1$ or not by selling from sector inventory. Smile

And i agree on shotguns: IMHO there's exactly one Char in game that can make use of shotguns ATM - Tony. Wink
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295258] Fri, 16 December 2011 02:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
UPDATE

HAM 5.5 has been released. The download link is in the opening post of this thread.

Please extract all files: there are several new STIs you will need.

New features include:

1) 1024x768 and 800x600 Strategic Maps fixed. Icons are now significantly larger, pathing arrows are much more visible. A few textual cues have been removed (possibly reinstated later), so overall this is much cleaner. Town labels and SAM Site labels are now much more readable in 1024x768 (not yet in 800x600, having trouble finding a good font and it's less crucial in that resolution to begin with).
2) NCTH Shotgun suppression increased. Pellets will no longer have only a 50% chance of inflicting suppression: they will inflict the same suppression as bullets (EACH!). Please note that this applies ONLY to NCTH!
3) $0 Items sold for $0. This occurs only in the Strategic Map (selling with ALT-Click or ALT-SHIFT-Click).

Enjoy and report bugs please.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295259] Fri, 16 December 2011 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cell

 
Messages:486
Registered:February 2011
User deleted
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295262] Fri, 16 December 2011 02:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
9x, instead of 4.5x as before. That is assuming all 9 pellets come close enough to the target to inflict suppression at all.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295263] Fri, 16 December 2011 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cell

 
Messages:486
Registered:February 2011
User deleted
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295264] Fri, 16 December 2011 03:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1995
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Infact every Char in the game is indeed purely artificial, made of pixels and computer controlled .. Razz

It's still a game and sometimes playability trumps realism. IMHO. YMMV.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295265] Fri, 16 December 2011 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1773
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
UPDATE

HAM 5.5 Alpha has been reuploaded. Link is in the opening post. If you already have HAM 5.5 then all you need is the EXE.

This version has very minor edits which should've been included already:

1) Mine names and output now displayed in the same (larger) font on the 1024x768 map as town names.

2) Sector info boxes now display the correct sector names defined in SectorNames.XML (if they exists).


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295267] Fri, 16 December 2011 04:02 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
knightofni

 
Messages:98
Registered:August 2011
Headrock
The saves might be helpful - unless you're using UC, in which I might not be able to test properly.

My guess is that some of these errors are related to something Wil473 mentioned after vehicle externalizations. If so, they stem from 1.13, not HAM, and will only be fixed when HAM is updated to the latest code (or merged into 1.13, whichever comes first). I have no estimate on when either of these things will happen, unfortunately. For now HAM tests only itself.

As to the others, they may or may not stem stem from HAM code, sounds like they might (and I stress, might) be caused by the Green Eggs, which means I'll have to alert Warmsteel - if and when he shows up. Again, if I can load the savegames properly, I'll see if I can solve these bugs myself - but that could take a while.

One important question though is whether you are still encountering these bugs with the latest HAM 5 version, because you reported them a while ago so I have to be sure.


Saves using AFS (HAM optimized) from wil.
I've checked, one bug has been solved (the combat CTD, probably linked to Green Eggs). Others are still alive and kicking.
As you said, it might be from this vehicle externalization. In that case, i guess you won't get much feedback for the late game, as we usually pick up the ice cream truck. I guess you could put a warning message in the first post, or maybe tai can prepare a new SCI ?

Headrock

knightofni
[still] No point in using rifles (may change with scopes).


I'm hoping that Wil473's latest coolness reshuffle may solve this issue, because rifles without scopes are and should be pointless. Some rifle-specific scopes, like the ones we have for the older weapons (in vanilla 1.13 it's the ZF-42 or No.32), should appear early on, making the rifles that can take them worth using as DMRs in the early game. With little or not variable power, and no ability to install them on any automatic weapons, you'll have an early-game weapon for accurate fire at sight-range (and possibly beyond-sight-range).

I guess a mix of coolness & handling wil solve this.

Headrock

knightofni
[still] No point in using long barrel shotguns.


Perhaps shotgun pellets need to give normal suppression. Now that autofire is much more prevalent, shotguns should be allowed to suppress better, in keeping with the move towards realism. That is, when each pellet would cause as much suppression as a single bullet (or, at least, more than it does now). Similar to how fragmentation works.



I've got mixed feelings about this. Already (pre HAM 5.5) shotguns give a lot of suppression - that's the only use i've found to them actually (as i was reporting). More of a good thing is not especially useful. To me it's more an issue of AP to draw, AP for single shot. I think that would make them useful at short range, while keeping their long range weaknesses.

UC opponents are using a lot of shotguns, i'll try to get shot at to get a feel for this change (if this is too much or still ok)
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