Home » BIT COMPOSER GAMES » Jagged Alliance: Back in Action (by Coreplay) » Newest gameplay video
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296744]
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Sun, 15 January 2012 17:01  
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 Koda |
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Messages:40
Registered:December 2011 |
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EXos
Because you never answer properly.
When we ask about why certain things were cut from the game you just say:
Then what are you associated with? Marketing?
You don't get the fact that I'm here as a private person and may not tell you things I'm not allowed to tell. I repeated this like 10 times. I've seen this behavior pattern from you multiple times. For example Michael explained 10 times why FoW was cut and you continue asking the same question again and again and again on the official forum. The answer will not change no matter how often you ask.
Marketing is part of the publisher, not the developer. My name tells you what profession I have.
Regarding demo: In the official german forum, Michael has posted at http://boards.jaggedalliance.com/index.php?/topic/259-das-entwickler-interview-die-antworten/page__view__findpost__p__4007
Aber es wird wohl keinen Aufschrei geben, wie bei anderen Produktionen, wo es zur Ver
[Updated on: Sun, 15 January 2012 17:03] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296774]
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Sun, 15 January 2012 22:28
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| Koda |
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Messages:40
Registered:December 2011 |
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@SmokingGun
I said I wasn't associated with the game design, not the game. Stop citing incorrectly! And how often do I need to repeat that I was for keeping turn based combat and that I was for keeping FoW. Read my first posts. I only explained to you WHY it was removed, and that it definitly is working fine as it is. I was skeptical myself before playing it intensively over christmas.
And I was offended by the insults, not any opinions! I did clearly state that and you know that!
[Updated on: Sun, 15 January 2012 22:29] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296782]
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Sun, 15 January 2012 23:06
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| SmokinGun |
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Messages:69
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun |
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Ha. I still play SS (great AI btw) and TOEE and JA etc. Also recently picked up 7.62 solely because of the modding you did to fix the game. I've only been able to play a small amount, but thanks for your MODDING to make the game playable.
KodaAs much as I love a game being replayable, it seems the online forum(!) community often seems to mistake their continued affection to a game with commercial success. This is sadly not true. Most people pay once and that's it. The publisher (even less the developer) can't live from that, as there usually are really just a few sales after some time even if the game is "alive" for ten years (and these sales are for cheap money) due to mods.
If I seem overly harsh, well I am. Your above statement was an assinine thing to say here, especially as a representative of the game. Right, so you did not make "design decisions" on the current game. But as someone who worked on the game and have clearly stated you represent the game, stop splitting hairs. For you to blatantly state that the focus is to make a quick buck while raping a franchise's name and stripping any semblance of the original series, is hardly professional, respectful or likely to win support.
Preaching to the community here about how we've been mistaken about enjoying the game in relation to $$$ and commercial success doesn't sit well. You think people want to support that ideology around here? You are still not listening because you're so busy trying to be right. Can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm starting to think you might be german? wink wink.
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296787]
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Sun, 15 January 2012 23:47
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| Koda |
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Messages:40
Registered:December 2011 |
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SmokinGun
If I seem overly harsh, well I am. Your above statement was an assinine thing to say here, especially as a representative of the game. Right, so you did not make "design decisions" on the current game. But as someone who worked on the game and have clearly stated you represent the game, stop splitting hairs. For you to blatantly state that the focus is to make a quick buck while raping a franchise's name and stripping any semblance of the original series, is hardly professional, respectful or likely to win support.
Preaching to the community here about how we've been mistaken about enjoying the game in relation to $$$ and commercial success doesn't sit well. You think people want to support that ideology around here? You are still not listening because you're so busy trying to be right. Can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm starting to think you might be german? wink wink.
You did notice that I was responding in the context of mod support and the context of long-living games not necessarily being successful in a commercial point of view? It's not about making "a quick buck" - especially since we're the developer, not the publisher. But you need to make sure that you get enough money to survive. And that was what I was stating, to make clear that the publisher needs enough sales to cover the cost. Again, I'm not from the publisher so this is an outside view!
I also don't agree at all with that "raping" comment. You continuously use strong words but haven't even seen the final version of the game live, so you're not even able to judge it.
Oh, and it's not hard to judge that I'm german when Coreplay is located in Munich...
I won't respond any further to comments like this. For the others: if you have specific questions, I'm glad to check whether I can and may answer them.
[Updated on: Sun, 15 January 2012 23:50] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296788]
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Mon, 16 January 2012 00:51
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| R@S |
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Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden |
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@SmokinGun
I'm sorry about my harsh post before, didn't now you were a fellow 7.62 player :waving: . And I'm glad you appreciate my and the community's work. Since you haven't played it much I would like to give you some advice that will make the game more pleasant to play. There are some keys that should be used a lot, the "shift" key to speed up camera movement and the "+" and "-" keys that speeds up time. But that's enough off-topic for now.
@Koda
I'm glad you decided to continue answering questions, so I have one that I tried to get an answer from Michael about. I am asking about the preview version, not release version if that gets you out of any restrictions.
Are there binoculars in the game?
Will a day/night cycle be present and does it affect the AI?
Are there weather conditions or is it "Always sunny in Philadelphia"? 
Oh, and you mentioned in the other thread that modders usually limit a game to fit their idea of what is good(maybe bad paraphrasing here), but you are posting on a forum that is known for the JA2 1.13 mod which leaves those decisions up to the player via the Ja2_Options.INI file. This is a great tradition I have implemented in my work as well, giving the options to the player when it comes to any major gameplay changes is important to me, and this community as well. Just wanted to point out the irony, no offense meant.
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Sergeant
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296790]
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Mon, 16 January 2012 01:12
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| Koda |
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Messages:40
Registered:December 2011 |
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R@S
Will a day/night cycle be present and does it affect the AI?
Yes. There's special cameo for night missions to make you less visible at night. I'm not sure about the details how the camouflage values are calculated though. Also, some mercs like night missions.
R@S
Are there weather conditions or is it "Always sunny in Philadelphia"?
Not like the day/night cycle. There's some visual weather fx like rain, sand turbulence particles and so on certain maps. So you definitly get different feelings like sunny day, rainy weather, sunny beach, rain forest etc, but it's tied to the maps.
R@S
Oh, and you mentioned in the other thread that modders usually limit a game to fit their idea of what is good(maybe bad paraphrasing here), but you are posting on a forum that is known for the JA2 1.13 mod which leaves those decisions up to the player via the Ja2_Options.INI file. This is a great tradition I have implemented in my work as well, giving the options to the player when it comes to any major gameplay changes is important to me, and this community as well. Just wanted to point out the irony, no offense meant.
Ok, that's probably not the best reasoning then. I didn't specifically mean 1.13, but the average mod. For example, in Civ5's mod browser you see a vast amount of mods that aren't balanced at all.
It's usually not an option for commercial projects though, as there are budget and time restrictions and you cannot implement (and balance!) all possible permutations of those options. For projects made in spare time, you don't have to consider these constraints. You can release a new version from time to time and add new features.
[Updated on: Mon, 16 January 2012 01:13] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296843]
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Tue, 17 January 2012 09:28
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| Koda |
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Messages:40
Registered:December 2011 |
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Guy can you read? I said I'm not from Bitcomposer and therefore I could not even clarify their "rationale for NO mod support". Don't rip everything out of context. I was talking about the gaming market as a whole. And as I'm not working at a publisher, this is an outside view.
I'm no public representative but just a coder, and i was only coming here due to christmas holidays, that's it. I had spare time. I had no spare time before. No secret shit involved.
And I've already written that I'm not insulted by your opinion but by the words you use to express it.
[Updated on: Tue, 17 January 2012 09:30] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296865]
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Tue, 17 January 2012 22:06
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| CptMoore |
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Messages:224
Registered:March 2009 |
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taoNo one is ever from Bit Composer it seems, but they all try to sell us ideas? Weird....
Paranoid troll... love you.
I'm looking forward to plan and go, gonna check out the first lets play coming out for it. I hate the AP system of Jagged Alliance, and loved the 7.62 approach (that implementation sucked in details though).
These head models look hidious and if they didn't change them, they probably reduce alot of the atmosphere... visual style is so important for getting into the game.
One attachement for each merc sounds bad for JA2 fans, especially for JA1.13 fans. But as long as attachements fullfil the role of "classes", I would think that RPG aspect outweights it, gameplay wise. Of course for the atmosphere it sucks, as it is unrealistic.
As long as its better than "Hired Guns: The Jagged Edge" I'm welcoming Back in Action.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296870]
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Wed, 18 January 2012 01:13
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| SmokinGun |
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Messages:69
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun |
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Kodaespecially since we're the developer, not the publisher. Again, I'm not from the publisher so this is an outside view!
So as the developer of the JA reloaded game...
kodaGuy can you read? I said I'm not from Bitcomposer and therefore I could not even clarify their "rationale for NO mod support". Don't rip everything out of context. I'm no public representative but just a coder, and i was only coming here due to christmas holidays, that's it.
Yes I can read very well, and I can read between the lines of you being here. Question is do you have personal and professional integrity? So can you please clarify a few things then? You say you write code for the developer, you have inside knowledge about details of the game some of which you can discuss and other details you cannot. You clearly have discussed liking the game and trying to persuade others to like it.
Have or will you receive payment for working on the game? Have you received income directly or indirectly in some way, shape, or form in relation to work you have done on/for the game? Do you stand to benefit financially from work you have done on the game or in any relation to the games success? Will you be receiving income in the future for work on the game? Has whoever you receive a frickin paycheck from received revenue from working on the game or will be receiving revenue from work on the game? Can YOU read and do you actually have the integrity to be honest?
I worked as an independent manufacturers rep for many years. We had our own small companay that represented over a dozen manufacturers. We did not work in-house for the manufacturers but sold their goods to retailers. Whenever we interacted with the general public (potential consumers), or retail employees (selling our product to the public) or buyers (retailers who bought our product to sell) or even out on the street...We ALWAYS told them that we worked (repped) for the companies of the products we were discussing. We felt it was both professional and ethical to clarify our position.
Since you've been very consistent in sidestepping dancing and prancing around having any "official" connection to the game, yet there are things you can't discuss and obviously have inside information to the game, I won't hold my breath that you'll be forthright and honest.
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296926]
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Thu, 19 January 2012 01:57
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| The_Bob |
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Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you. |
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http://youtu.be/4QLNsjAk4Ew?hd=1&t=4m13s ugly f***ed up faces are ugly and...
This game is another example of when one shouldn't use an old name for a completely new product. Looks like the only things that actually tie JA2 and JA:BiA are the setting and mercs. Both were done very well in JA2, Arulco being an interesting place with non-trivial sidequests and plenty of cool little secrets, the mercs being diverse and individual, interesting enough to make the player want to try them all. But neither are so great as a concept as to justify creating a whole new and otherwise unrelated game around them. Especially a mediocre looking game that apparently needs all the help it can get.
Both parts are actually quite hard to recreate, and it looks like JA:BiA has already failed at doing mercs - faces are a terrible failure. It would've made a lot of sense to set easier goals for these parts of the game - a smaller setting and less mercs, opting for quality rather then quantity, and more importantly, not having to compete with the predecessor.
Who knows, maybe this could've been a fun indie game otherwise, kinda like Frozen Synapse but with soldiers and different weapons, but instead it had to try and mimic JA2, badly.
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296932]
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Thu, 19 January 2012 07:16
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| CptMoore |
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Messages:224
Registered:March 2009 |
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I disagree Bob, without the JA2 franchise, Back in Action would have probably cost more to build, and had a smaller budget. Then not only you would have to cope with bad looking portraits...
But I agree about those models of the mercs, quality over quantity would have been better. They are probably already bumping their heads for that mistake. Lets hope its moddable and some souls know how to import better looking ones from other games (or even made from scratch).
Thats whats the most disturbing of course.. moddabilty is not part of the core concept, which does make this budget game less valuable, since the chance the cheap parts stay cheap is higher than otherwise, regardless of the modding community.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296937]
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Thu, 19 January 2012 09:53
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| Koda |
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Messages:40
Registered:December 2011 |
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DieterKoda... there are fixed payments. ...
And this is going to answer many other questions posted by other members: "Minimum wage, minimum effort."
Imagine you sit in a cube, over the duration of 12 months you work on about half a dozen different (mini) projects, some of them make it, some get shelved. Your income is mostly a fixed salary with some minor bonus here and there. At this point you are driven by personal preference and work-life balance, what you do when you are not at work. Everything we have seen up to know fits into the above situation.
Wrong. I'd go to a different industry then, but as I love gaming I don't! Who says that we at Coreplay had another project active during BiA development (except maybe one small platform conversion which only affected 1-2 guys)? You're spreading lies without any proof, just imagination!
You know what: you guys aren't satisfied when it's a fixed payment, you're not satisfied when it's sale driven, you're not satisfied no matter how it works. With the addition that you have no right at all to demand to know how we are paid!
[Updated on: Thu, 19 January 2012 10:13] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297017]
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Fri, 20 January 2012 09:24
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| usrbid |
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Messages:1510
Registered:December 2008 |
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Actually I just want to know more about Koda. I didn't expect him to get upset about disclosing how much money he gets. My guess is people in Munich don't like to talk about that. Everyone who knows me, knows that this information is irrelevant to me.
I wanted to know more about the lack of design / planning. I believe most of us are surprised that someone would go through the trouble of acquiring rights to the JA franchise I almost want to say, and then doing such a pathetic job of taking it to the next level. Don't get me wrong, they really kicked a$$ in the graphic department, but have they captured the spirit and let it soar to 2012?
I believe I am not alone when I say that everything we have seen so far feels like their heart is not in it. Everything feels distant, like a bunch of guys were discussing this in a conference room, about what could be and what should be. It doesn't feel like anyone who had something to say spent 100+ hours with the existing game.
But to be honest, even though Koda does not actually answers what people ask him, he tends to answer what he feels passionate about, this also carries information in itself, or to say it differently, imagine he works for you and you put a requirements spec in front of him, what do you think will happen? Will he read it, will he ask questions if something is unclear, or will he do what he thinks feels right?
Dear Lord, I am such an a$$hole sometimes, but then, my wife keeps telling me all the time...
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297019]
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Fri, 20 January 2012 09:35
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| Koda |
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Messages:40
Registered:December 2011 |
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Dieter
I believe I am not alone when I say that everything we have seen so far feels like their heart is not in it. Everything feels distant, like a bunch of guys were discussing this in a conference room, about what could be and what should be. It doesn't feel like anyone who had something to say spent 100+ hours with the existing game.
Well different people have different approaches to their work. I myself hate to deliver stuff that's not ready and can't just say "time's over" and go home.
Dieter
But to be honest, even though Koda does not actually answers what people ask him, he tends to answer what he feels passionate about, this also carries information in itself, or to say it differently, imagine he works for you and you put a requirements spec in front of him, what do you think will happen? Will he read it, will he ask questions if something is unclear, or will he do what he thinks feels right?
Depends on how detailed the requirements are. If they're not very detailed, I'd probably do what I think is right and feels right and ask a few questions when they come up. If they're detailed, it happens very often that I'm discussing things intensively with my in-house "customers" to make sure we're doing the right thing - and this does change the requirements quite often.
BTW, I usually work on engine, tools and platform dependent code, that's why I don't have to do so much with game design or game implementation. At the end of projects I usually start working on the game itself. This is usually too late to drastically influence the game design, but I sometimes can influence it a bit (like nerfing medkits a bit, or nerfing sniper effectivity in several ways).
[Updated on: Fri, 20 January 2012 09:42] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297043]
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Fri, 20 January 2012 18:41
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| b15h09 |
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Messages:4
Registered:January 2012 |
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Hey R@S. My excitement for a JA:BiA led me to their forums, and after reading over the design choices, I was rather appalled. This in turn led me here to the pit, where it seems most of the fellas around here are thinking on similar terms as I am about the game. One old post here mentioned 7.62 BSM having some 'godly combat'. So, I was like, WTF is 7.62 BSM? That led me to the wonderful work you and the team have done. Bought 7.62 about a week ago specifically to check it out. Very pleasant surprise. So, just wanted to say, many thanks for your efforts. Really good stuff.
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