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| Jagged Alliance Pen&Paper[message #302674]
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Mon, 02 April 2012 03:56 
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 Vincent J. Claymore |
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Messages:285
Registered:February 2011 |
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Surprisingly, I couldn't find anything on the web about a conversion of this awesome game series into a Pen&Paper RPG!
So I decided to take that job on myself (after having created about a dozen home-made RPGs before), hoping to find some interest in the project and possibly your support!
As I want to stay as close to the rule set as it is in JA2 (1.13), I firstly need to improve my understanding of these rules to adopt or if necessary convert them for use at the dice table 
My first question is: Who do feats check with a Merc's traits? What are the calculations the programme executes when I try to
- kick open a crate
- try to punch someone
- try to shoot someone (how does range effect the chance, how does aiming/attachments?)
- try to give first aid
Since the stats are all in percent, I assume that the engine uses a d100 (that's PnP jargon for a 100-sided di(c)e), if the roll is lower than your stat, you make it. But then there are modifiers, for how strong the crate is, range, etc. So: How much do you know about these processes? Can anyone give me a little insight here?
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Jagged Alliance Pen&Paper[message #302723]
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Tue, 03 April 2012 04:14 
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| usrbid |
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Messages:1506
Registered:December 2008 |
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Stable Modding Platform, also known as JA2 v1.14 (it doesn't really exist - yet.)
About splitting Marksmanship, I don't think sub categories would make it lose the authentic feel, however did you look at the 1.13 4870 release, they have a trait system, mercs can take up to 3 "feats" (d20) while doubling a trait sometimes increases its effectiveness. I feel this idea goes well with RPGs as you "level up" (maybe every 3 levels you can pick a feat / trait).
I have a lot of experience with RPGs and personally I would run 2-3 play tests using an existing system to develop a better understanding how the game "feels" when it is played. Based on this experience you may want to enhance or build your own mechanics.
For example how do you train militia? Do you plan to roleplay that? Meaning 4-5 players spend 4 hours real time going through bars talking to people and at the end they have ~5 militia. And if you roll militia training (e.g. on a table) then what does the player who trains them 16 hours a day do the rest of the real time while everyone else is playing e.g. kicking in doors, throwing grenades etc. (This reminds me of the technician in Battletech.)
Another example, bloodcats are really only good for so many encounters, one in the wilderness, one with enemies, and the bloodcat lair. After that you somewhat exhausted the interest for them. Meaning in an RPG to have *the same* random bloodcat encounter is boring (and time consuming) for the players, while in the computer game it is not so bad. That's why modern themed RPGs have long lists of "monsters", to make it interesting.
Along the same lines, Jagged Alliance is to modern themed RPGs what Game of Thrones is to Fantasy RPGs, meaning shooting at people - if that's all you do - can get boring somewhat fast. Not so with a computer game (mostly because shooting is relatively quick, just a mouse click).
Imagine RPG-ing a map which takes 90 minutes real time in the computer game, people have to roll dice, its going to take somewhat longer (unless you get creative). And in all fairness, JA is so enjoyable because the computer calculates cover and concealment modifiers, imagine having to do that by hand (think Warhammer ruler).
Playtest a couple of scenarios with a group and see where people need more rules and what they like to do. It is hard to predict how it exactly will all work out unless you try it first.
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| Re: Jagged Alliance Pen&Paper[message #302727]
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Tue, 03 April 2012 05:38
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| Vincent J. Claymore |
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Messages:285
Registered:February 2011 |
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DieterAbout splitting Marksmanship, I don't think sub categories would make it lose the authentic feel, however did you look at the 1.13 4870 release, they have a trait system, mercs can take up to 3 "feats" (d20) while doubling a trait sometimes increases its effectiveness. I feel this idea goes well with RPGs as you "level up" (maybe every 3 levels you can pick a feat / trait).
Yup! Funny enough, I suggested just what I found in the new version later that day! I must be a JA-psychic or something... I really like the new skill system, although I feel that a double-sniper is UBER... Your idea to grant more feats as the PC level up is excellent!
DieterI have a lot of experience with RPGs and personally I would run 2-3 play tests using an existing system to develop a better understanding how the game "feels" when it is played. Based on this experience you may want to enhance or build your own mechanics.
Me too, about 14 years. I guess your suggesting those trial runs in an existing system to test how the setting resp. the premise of the game feels, not the mechanisms? Good point, although I don't intend to stay that close to the JA2 setting of Arulcu.
DieterFor example how do you train militia? Do you plan to roleplay that? Meaning 4-5 players spend 4 hours real time going through bars talking to people and at the end they have ~5 militia. And if you roll militia training (e.g. on a table) then what does the player who trains them 16 hours a day do the rest of the real time while everyone else is playing e.g. kicking in doors, throwing grenades etc. (This reminds me of the technician in Battletech.)
Since Militias are a part of every JA game so far, the RPG has to deal with them as well. The second thing you mention is a commom problem in RPGs, for example with Hackers in Shadowrun, but you don't see one big difference between JA2 the video game and JA2 the RPG: In the video game ONE player controlls about 18 mercs. In the RPG ~4 players play one merc each (or maybe two? Worth trying), the remaining 14 (10) mercs don't have a player - so why not leave the boring crap to the NPC? That would solve one big problem...
DieterAnother example, bloodcats are really only good for so many encounters, one in the wilderness, one with enemies, and the bloodcat lair. After that you somewhat exhausted the interest for them. Meaning in an RPG to have *the same* random bloodcat encounter is boring (and time consuming) for the players, while in the computer game it is not so bad. That's why modern themed RPGs have long lists of "monsters", to make it interesting.
Very good point! For the first campaign of the RPG I wasn't actually thinking of Arulco at all! I actually wanted my players to be on a small pacific Island (as in "the Beach" with leo dicaprio or FarCry 3). Since the bloodcats seem to be a genetically modified creation of deidrannas scientists, the JA-universe is obviously not 100% "our world", so there's nothing stopping us from creating more 'monsters' along the same lines of Bloodcats, Bugs (also Deidrannas's creation?) and not to forget those Fallow trees from the first part, which are also fictional and the result of nuclear weapon tests - if trees can mutate to something functional, why not animals or even people? It may seem a bit far from what JA series has offered so far, but I could even imagine a setting with Zombies or zombie-like enemies (with a feeling like Pitch Black/Riddick), but I'm getting carried away. Suffice it to say: I believe that the JA universe is "fantastic" enough to allow for more monsters.
DieterAlong the same lines, Jagged Alliance is to modern themed RPGs what Game of Thrones is to Fantasy RPGs, meaning shooting at people - if that's all you do - can get boring somewhat fast. Not so with a computer game (mostly because shooting is relatively quick, just a mouse click).
Imagine RPG-ing a map which takes 90 minutes real time in the computer game, people have to roll dice, its going to take somewhat longer (unless you get creative). And in all fairness, JA is so enjoyable because the computer calculates cover and concealment modifiers, imagine having to do that by hand (think Warhammer ruler).
Good point as well. But here I acutally see a strength of the JA system: All the skills and stats are purely professional, so all the social interaction is left entirely to the player. Since in a video game social interaction is nearly non-existent, we don't see much of it in JA2, but if there are human players and human-controlled NPC, this will lead to a big proportion of the time spent talking and not being on an actual mission. I mean: When we play JA2, how many minutes and hours of an ingame day do we spent fighting? Less than one hour, I'd say... but this hours takes most our time, while we fastforward through the remainder of the day. In the P&P a lot of plot and interaction will be taking place during that time though.
DieterPlaytest a couple of scenarios with a group and see where people need more rules and what they like to do. It is hard to predict how it exactly will all work out unless you try it first.
That's another thing... I'm sure there are "better" systems than the one JA2 uses, but I'm not sure if I want to use them, because... would it still be JA if you have different traits and different skills?
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Jagged Alliance Pen&Paper[message #303778]
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Mon, 23 April 2012 03:48
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| Vincent J. Claymore |
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Messages:285
Registered:February 2011 |
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So, after putting a bit of work into this project, I'd like to give you a first update. I've been working on both the setting and the game mechanics, but I will talk about each in a separate paragraph:
THE SYSTEM (d10/d100 zero is zero)
My Goals: I want to stick with the JA2 system as much as possible, which means that transporting the game to an existing rule set was not an option.
Traits: - will stay as they are, but slightly adapted to the needs of a P&P game, which means that skillchecks will not require several traits to be checked, but only one (e.g. Explosives, when disarming a booby trap).
- another change will be, that Wisdom will only effect the training of skills, not attributes.
- the scale from 0 to 100 will also remain
Skill checks: a modifier (always multiples of 10) depending on difficulty and circumstances of the attempted action will be applied (added/subtracted) to the trait value resulting in the target number. The actual skill check is rolled with a single d10 to check the tens. Only if necessary, another d10 is rolled to check the units.
Example: Trying to flank an enemy post, Ivan sneaks along a narrow corridor, when he notices a booby trap blocking his route. He attempts to disarm it. His explosives skill is 55, the difficulty for disarming a primitive device like this is at +20, but he has no tools with him (-10). Therefore his target number for this skill check is 65. If his roll results in a 0,1,2,3,4,5 he has automatically passed the check, if he rolls a 7,8,9 he has failed the test. If he rolls a 6, he has to roll again, this time a 0,1,2,3,4,5 lets him succeed, a 6,7,8,9 lets him fail.
Experience: After a successful skill check you roll again with the same target number. If you fail this roll, you get 1 point of experience in the relevant trait. This means, the harder the skill check you succeed, the better the chance you've learned something.
Generally I dislike d100 systems, because they require a lot of calculations. But with only tens as modifiers and only using a second d10 is necessary, the gameplay should remain faster.
(I appreciate any feedback  )
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Master Sergeant
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