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Recoil control in NCTH[message #359300] Mon, 30 March 2020 01:14 Go to next message
CareBear is currently offline CareBear

 
Messages:145
Registered:April 2016
If i read NCTH correctly, once the game rolls that your burst won't be on target, the first shot is usually close to the target, while the rest just fly over. But in real life, with longer burst, once the first bullet kick the barrel up, you compensate and adjust to the recoil. Thus let say for a 10 round burst, even if the first bullet kick up the barrel, the next 2-4 rounds will be above the target, but then the rest five bullet should be on the target[barring accuracy aside]. Is it possible to implement something like that? Like a roll/check after every bullet coming from the barrel, with a roll having increased value each time, so given enough bullets you will stay on the target for the rest of the burst.

Edit: Nevermind, 1.13 guide says the recoil is checked every x bullets. If so, it looks like the number is very high. Only dedicated machinegunners can actually move recoil effectively during the course of burst. Kind of bummer, i hoped this was calculated per every bullet angry

[Updated on: Mon, 30 March 2020 03:03]

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Sergeant
Re: Recoil control in NCTH[message #359305 is a reply to message #359300] Mon, 30 March 2020 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Countering recoil has many parameters. It is affected by your merc stats and traits. There are counter force and counter force accuracy. Only if both are applied correctly, the gun will get back and stay on target. Nobody in the whole world can adjust the counter force per bullet, unless you're an android maybe...


Wildfire Maps Mod 6.07 on SVN: https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20Wildfire%206.06%20-%20Maps%20MOD

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Lieutenant
Re: Recoil control in NCTH[message #359322 is a reply to message #359305] Tue, 31 March 2020 00:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CareBear is currently offline CareBear

 
Messages:145
Registered:April 2016
Yeah but i think the calculation is pretty harsh. A good shooter with 80 mrk,agi,dex and str can shoot whole 15 bullet burst into air from a ar-15 platform. I mean given a real life example, a fairly competent soldier would not do the same.

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Sergeant
Re: Recoil control in NCTH[message #359338 is a reply to message #359322] Tue, 31 March 2020 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
crackwise is currently offline crackwise

 
Messages:113
Registered:April 2013
Unfortunately, stock NCTH settings are really problematic and frequently result in those ridiculous shoot-into-the-air behaviour.

I have adjusted the CTHConstants.ini file by trial and error, and I believe I get more plausible results with the NCTH now.

I am pasting my settings here, I hope that they may also help you adjust your game. However, note that I play with the mods Arulco Revisited + SDO + sevenfm's AI+, so my settings may not 100% yield the same effects in stock 1.13, but should nevertheless improve the stock NCTH behaviour.


[General]

NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE = 100
IRON_SIGHT_PERFORMANCE_BONUS = 33.0
LASER_PERFORMANCE_BONUS_HIP = 25.0
LASER_PERFORMANCE_BONUS_IRON = 25.0
LASER_PERFORMANCE_BONUS_SCOPE = 0
DEGREES_MAXIMUM_APERTURE = 16
IRON_SIGHTS_MAX_APERTURE_USE_GRADIENT = TRUE
RANGE_COEFFICIENT = 1.1
GRAVITY_COEFFICIENT = 6.0
VERTICAL_BIAS = 1.0
SCOPE_RANGE_MULTIPLIER = 0.5
SCOPE_EFFECTIVENESS_MULTIPLIER = 1.0
SCOPE_EFFECTIVENESS_MINIMUM = 70
SCOPE_EFFECTIVENESS_MINIMUM_RANGER = 80
SCOPE_EFFECTIVENESS_MINIMUM_MARKSMAN = 90
SCOPE_EFFECTIVENESS_MINIMUM_SNIPER = 100
SIDE_FACING_DIVISOR = 1.0
BASIC_RELIABILITY_ODDS = 45


[Base CTH]

BASE_EXP = 3.0
BASE_MARKS = 4.0
BASE_WIS = 1.0
BASE_DEX = 2.0
BASE_LOW_MORALE = -2.0
BASE_HIGH_MORALE = 2.0
BASE_PSYCHO = -3.0
BASE_SHOOTING_UPWARDS = -50.0
BASE_INJURY = -30.0
BASE_DRUNK_TIPSY = -5.0
BASE_DRUNK = -20.0
BASE_DRUNK_WASTED = -50.0
BASE_DRUNK_HUNGOVER = -10.0
BASE_FATIGUE = -15.0
BASE_SAME_TARGET = 5.0
BASE_GASSED = -15.0
BASE_BEING_BANDAGED = -5.0
BASE_SHOCK = -150.0
BASE_AGILE_TARGET = -5.0
BASE_TARGET_INVISIBLE = -200.0
BASE_DRAW_COST = 1.0
BASE_TWO_GUNS = 4.0
BASE_ONE_HANDED = 1.5
BASE_STANDING_STANCE = 1.0
BASE_CROUCHING_STANCE = 1.25
BASE_PRONE_STANCE = 1.5
BASE_HEAVY_WEAPON = 2.0
BASE_DIFFICULTY_NOVICE = 0
BASE_DIFFICULTY_EXPERIENCED = 0.0
BASE_DIFFICULTY_EXPERT = 0
BASE_DIFFICULTY_INSANE = 0

AIM_EXP = 3.0
AIM_MARKS = 5.0
AIM_WIS = 1.0
AIM_DEX = 2.0
AIM_TOO_CLOSE_SCOPE = -4.0
AIM_GUN_CONDITION = -2.0
AIM_LOW_MORALE = -2.0
AIM_HIGH_MORALE = 1.0
AIM_PSYCHO = -5.0
AIM_VISIBILITY = -100.0
AIM_SHOOTING_UPWARDS = -30.0
AIM_INJURY = -60.0
AIM_DRUNK_TIPSY = -10.0
AIM_DRUNK = -40.0
AIM_DRUNK_WASTED = -90.0
AIM_DRUNK_HUNGOVER = -15.0
AIM_FATIGUE = -40.0
AIM_GASSED = -80.0
AIM_BEING_BANDAGED = -20.0
AIM_SHOCK = -150.0
AIM_TARGET_INVISIBLE = -100.0
AIM_SNIPER_SKILL = 25.0
AIM_DRAW_COST = 1.0
AIM_STANDING_STANCE = 1.5
AIM_CROUCHING_STANCE = 1.0
AIM_PRONE_STANCE = 0.5
AIM_TWO_GUNS = 4.0
AIM_ONE_HANDED = 1.5
AIM_HEAVY_WEAPON = 2.0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_NOVICE = 0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_EXPERIENCED = 0.0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_EXPERT = 0
AIM_DIFFICULTY_INSANE = 0

[Shooting Mechanism]

MOVEMENT_MRK = 3.0
MOVEMENT_WIS = 2.0
MOVEMENT_DEX = 1.0
MOVEMENT_EXP_LEVEL = 2.0
MOVEMENT_TRACKING_DIFFICULTY = 40
MOVEMENT_PENALTY_PER_TILE = 2.0
PRE_RECOIL_WIS = 2.0
PRE_RECOIL_EXP_LEVEL = 3.0
PRE_RECOIL_AUTO_WEAPONS_SKILL = 7.0
RECOIL_MAX_COUNTER_STR = 1.0
RECOIL_MAX_COUNTER_AGI = 1.0
RECOIL_MAX_COUNTER_EXP_LEVEL =2.0
RECOIL_MAX_COUNTER_FORCE = 16.0
RECOIL_MAX_COUNTER_CROUCH = 14.0
RECOIL_MAX_COUNTER_PRONE = 28.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_MIN_ERROR = 0.3
RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_DEX = 2.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_WIS = 1.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_AGI = 1.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_EXP_LEVEL = 4.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_AUTO_WEAPONS_DIVISOR = 4.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_TRACER_BONUS = 10.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_ANTICIPATION = 25.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_ACCURACY_COMPENSATION = 2.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_FREQUENCY_AGI = 3.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_FREQUENCY_EXP_LEVEL = 2.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_FREQUENCY_AUTO_WEAPONS_DIVISOR = 5.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_INCREMENT = 1.0
RECOIL_COUNTER_INCREMENT_TRACER = 25
NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE = 90
MAX_BULLET_DEV = 9.0
RANGE_EFFECTS_DEV = TRUE
MAX_EFFECTIVE_RANGE_MULTIPLIER = 1.75
MAX_EFFECTIVE_RANGE_REDUCTION = 0.2
MAX_EFFECTIVE_USE_GRADIENT = TRUE

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Sergeant
Re: Recoil control in NCTH[message #359344 is a reply to message #359338] Wed, 01 April 2020 01:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CareBear is currently offline CareBear

 
Messages:145
Registered:April 2016
Thanks. The biggest problem is not the accuracy of long bursts at let say above 100m[10 tiles], since it will be inaccurate, unless on a bipod. Biggest problem is the initial kick that can throw all your shots in the air, even at ridiculous distances like 50m. A competent shooter can shoot fullauto/long burst at 50m from a standing position and still hit >70% time. With bipods and prone position, you should have virtually no initial kick thus no bullets flying over a target hed. Yet it happen frequently even for weak intermediate rounds. What im saying, initial kick is fine in standing position, but should be much lesser while in prone and especially while using bipod. Also while in standing position, the barrel/recoil compensation should kick much sooner, so situations like a whole 10 round burst going into air will not happen, unless your shooter is some scrawny girl with 30 strength and 30 marksmanship[basically if you took an inexperienced GF first time on the range and hand her an full auto rifle, without explaining a proper stance and recoil compensation ROFL].

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Sergeant
Re: Recoil control in NCTH[message #361693 is a reply to message #359300] Wed, 28 October 2020 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TWJunky is currently offline TWJunky

 
Messages:94
Registered:November 2012
Location: Austria
The Weapon balancing when it comes to autofire is just really off. Nobody took the time to rework the data tables, adjusting recoil properly. Even the SDO mod just touched the surface of autofire....

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Recoil control in NCTH[message #361694 is a reply to message #361693] Wed, 28 October 2020 09:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deleted.

 
Messages:2663
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Have you seen this
https://ja2svn.mooo.com/source/ja2/branches/Strohmann/Stable_Revision_7435/Docs/1.13 Stock Data Overhaul/RealRecoilforNCTHv1.0_by_Cyborg.xlsx



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Lieutenant

Re: Recoil control in NCTH[message #361698 is a reply to message #361694] Wed, 28 October 2020 17:34 Go to previous message
TWJunky is currently offline TWJunky

 
Messages:94
Registered:November 2012
Location: Austria
ok cool!thx sevenfm. am i reading this correctly? cyborg always puts the bRecoilX between 1-2 and bRecoilY is adjusted based on the recoil of the gun?




[Updated on: Wed, 28 October 2020 17:35]

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