Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 XML Customization » "AimLevels" tag? Does it work, and what does it do? (Apparently not what I'd would expect given the name)
"AimLevels" tag? Does it work, and what does it do?[message #361996]
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Sun, 06 December 2020 22:21
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Kurt |
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Messages:423
Registered:March 2004 |
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What is the <AimLevels> tag supposed to do?
I would had expected, given the name, that it limits how many aim clicks you get depending on stance (for instance, it's more difficult to aim a LMG while standing, or a grenade launcher while lying down. But apparently it's not that.
The "AimLevels" value doesn't seem to change anything, you always get the same number of aim clicks, on all three stances.
Most scopes have a lone "AimLevels" setting, only for the standing position, which is very strange. I can't imagine what could change on a scope depending on stance, and if it is about the lack of stability negating the bonus of high-magnification scopes, then the difference should be standing/crouched vs. prone, not standing vs. crouched/prone (I mean both "standing" and "crouched" should get an aim penalty, unless your weapon is resting on something). But anyway, it doesn't seem to work in the game.
Only when prone you get more aiming clicks (and don't ask me now which setting creates that!... )
Please guys, is there a rational explanation, while I have still some hair left?...
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Master Sergeant
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Re: "AimLevels" tag? Does it work, and what does it do?[message #362001 is a reply to message #361997]
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Mon, 07 December 2020 17:06
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Kurt |
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Messages:423
Registered:March 2004 |
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silversurfer wrote on Sun, 06 December 2020 23:15<AimLevels> in Items.xml is a modifier to the default aim levels.
Thanks.
So how do you explain the 10x sniper scope (#208) having an "AimLevel" of 3 for "standing"?
I'd be tempted to read that as "you get 3 additional aim clicks when standing", which doesn't make any sense at all. If anything you should get less, as I explained above.
silversurfer wrote on Sun, 06 December 2020 23:15You need to use the corresponding aim mode to see the correct aim levels of the sight you're interested in. If you're in iron sight mode, you can't see the aim levels caused by a scope and vice versa.
I'm guessing it defaults to the right (scope) mode, given the little icon, doesn't it?
silversurfer wrote on Sun, 06 December 2020 23:15The difference between standing and crouched for scopes is intended. When crouched you can rest your elbow on your thigh.
Do you mean it's hardcoded?
Anyway, while this thigh thing is true, it won't work for precision rifles: Beyond some distance you even need to take in account wind & weather, so the shaky support of a living body simply won't do if you're trying to hit something at a distance.
It would be simpler and easier if all rifles had a default aim of 1 click (iron sights), with a bonus of another click when resting on something. Sniper scopes should have 2 clicks while standing, 3 while crouching, and 4 when prone or resting on something. Bipod prone adds yet another click, so prone with a fully equipped sniper rifle would get you 5 aim clicks.
For small scopes (2x to 4x) you'd have 2 clicks while standing, and given their lesser precision, 3 while crouching or prone (shaking support isn't a problem).
Just IMHO, but that's what I'd like to implement in my game, so I'm trying to modulate the aim clicks using the stance modifiers, except they don't seem to be working at all!...
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Master Sergeant
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Re: "AimLevels" tag? Does it work, and what does it do?[message #362003 is a reply to message #362002]
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Mon, 07 December 2020 17:28
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Kurt |
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Messages:423
Registered:March 2004 |
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silversurfer wrote on Mon, 07 December 2020 16:23Yes, with the 10x scope you get 3 additional aim clicks when standing. This is a big penalty, because you can't rest your gun anywhere.
"Penalty"?
All right, we're definitely not speaking about the same thing then.
Why is "additional aim clicks" a penalty, since you improve your aim with each click/mouse wheel increment?
==== EDIT ====
I made a test: I gave a Barrett M98 (that's the .338 Lapua Barrett) with a bipod and a "Scope 10x" to Dimitri (to make sure there is no Skill interfering).
Note all stance modifiers were removed from the Barrett M98. The "Scope 10x" retained his default <AimLevels>3</AimLevels> in the <STAND_MODIFIERS> category.
I sent Dimitri to an enemy sector, and once there, gave him an "Energy Boost" shot, to make sure he would have more than enough APs.
This is what I counted while aiming at an enemy: 4 aim clicks while standing or crouched, 8 clicks while prone.
Then I removed the scope 10x to check the difference: 4 aim clicks while standing or crouched, 5 clicks while prone. 3 clicks missing? Hmmm, could it be a coincidence, or did those 3 "standing" clicks end up in "prone"?
To be sure I edited the Items.xml, deleted the current modifier and put <AimLevels>4</AimLevels> in the <PRONE_MODIFIERS> category, to see what changes.
Putting the scope 10x back on the rifle I got: 4 aim clicks while standing or crouched, 8 clicks while prone... The exact same values as with the default setting.
This proves the game doesn't give a damn about "AimLevels".
[Updated on: Mon, 07 December 2020 22:07] Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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Re: "AimLevels" tag? Does it work, and what does it do?[message #362010 is a reply to message #362003]
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Tue, 08 December 2020 19:49
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LatZee |
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Messages:185
Registered:December 2015 |
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Kurt wrote on Mon, 07 December 2020 16:28silversurfer wrote on Mon, 07 December 2020 16:23Yes, with the 10x scope you get 3 additional aim clicks when standing. This is a big penalty, because you can't rest your gun anywhere.
"Penalty"?
All right, we're definitely not speaking about the same thing then.
Why is "additional aim clicks" a penalty, since you improve your aim with each click/mouse wheel increment?
Because aim levels do not change the max aim/precision/whatever you want to call it, they just dictate the number of additional aim clicks you need to achieve that 100%. So a 10x scope with 1 additional aim level would be equally good as the one with 3, it would just require 2 clicks less to achieve it (so it would be better in fact).
As for your test, you might be hitting max possible aim levels that Silversurfer mentioned in his post, so adding even more would have no effect.
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Staff Sergeant
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Re: "AimLevels" tag? Does it work, and what does it do?[message #362011 is a reply to message #362010]
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Tue, 08 December 2020 20:39
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Kurt |
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Messages:423
Registered:March 2004 |
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LatZee wrote on Tue, 08 December 2020 18:49Because aim levels do not change the max aim/precision/whatever you want to call it, they just dictate the number of additional aim clicks you need to achieve that 100%. So a 10x scope with 1 additional aim level would be equally good as the one with 3, it would just require 2 clicks less to achieve it (so it would be better in fact).
Wait, you mean that the number of aim clicks is just a subdivision of a weapon's fixed aiming capacity?
That a weapon with 4 aim clicks is as precise as a weapon with 1 aim click, it just needs more APs to be aimed?
Hmm, that would finally explain what silversurfer hinted at some posts above.
LatZee wrote on Tue, 08 December 2020 18:49As for your test, you might be hitting max possible aim levels that Silversurfer mentioned in his post, so adding even more would have no effect.
I don't really care about the amount right now, I'm actually just trying to get stance modifiers to work:
No matter the max aim levels, I would had expected that moving the existing "AimLevels" modifier of the scope from "standing" to "prone" would change something in-game. Even if one stance maxes out, the other should show some change. Yet it doesn't, and that's strange and quite worrying.
I'm using AimLevels because it's the only setting which should be readily visible to the user. I have no way of readily assessing "Handling" modifiers (for instance) inside the game.
Now I think I start to understand the whole AimLevel thing, please another question: silversurfer spoke about "default aim levels" and "modifiers to those default aim levels". Where is the "max aim levels" setting you're talking about now? silversurfer just mentioned "some limits", but didn't elaborate.
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Master Sergeant
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Re: "AimLevels" tag? Does it work, and what does it do?[message #362017 is a reply to message #362014]
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Wed, 09 December 2020 16:03
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Kurt |
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Messages:423
Registered:March 2004 |
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silversurfer wrote on Tue, 08 December 2020 20:46You probably remember aim levels from OCTH.
Yes, I definitely do!
Don't forget, I'm a time traveler coming straight from 10+ years ago, so what you said further up confused me to no end.
How could I guess that this apparently familiar feature had changed to the opposite?...
silversurfer wrote on Tue, 08 December 2020 20:46AIMING_LEVELS_REDUCTION_ON_ALTWEAPHOLD
ALLOW_EXTRA_AIM_LEVELS
DYNAMIC_AIMING_LIMITS
AIM_LEVELS_DEPEND_ON_DISTANCE
VERY_HIGH_POWER_SCOPE_AIM_THRESHOLD
HIGH_POWER_SCOPE_AIM_THRESHOLD
MEDIUM_POWER_SCOPE_AIM_THRESHOLD
I don't recall seeing most (if not all) of them. Are those accessible settings, or just internal variables?
(I'm obviously only interested in things I can change to make a given weapon work as I want it to.)
And now for the elephant in the room:
How do you people explain the lack of any change when I change something inside the stance modifiers?
Understand I'm not interested in badmouthing or pointing fingers or making fun of, all I want is to know is if this is due to some bug (shit happens), or if I'm doing something wrong (and in that case, what it is).
[Updated on: Wed, 09 December 2020 16:04] Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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Re: "AimLevels" tag? Does it work, and what does it do?[message #362023 is a reply to message #362018]
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Thu, 10 December 2020 15:05
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Kurt |
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Messages:423
Registered:March 2004 |
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silversurfer wrote on Wed, 09 December 2020 16:56I did the same test as you and now I understand what you mean
Thank you for your time!
silversurfer wrote on Wed, 09 December 2020 16:56This is because these are inherited from the next higher stance unless there are explicit values defined for a certain stance.
OMG! *facepalm*
How is one supposed to guess that?...
I knew there had to be a rational explanation, that's why I didn't post this in "bugs", but in the "xml WTF" forum.
silversurfer wrote on Wed, 09 December 2020 16:56I hope this makes it clearer.
It does, thanks.
Still, some comments in the "items.xml" #0 entry would go a long way towards reducing confusion, and preventing people from asking stupid questions in the forums...
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Master Sergeant
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