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Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127233] Thu, 05 October 2006 05:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3787
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
would there be any warning or straight sudden death Wink


Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127234] Thu, 05 October 2006 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
depending on setting. i can have the damage consideraly lowered.

in this particuliar case, the sector was unoccupied. in an occuped sector, i woudl have tried using the flash against the enemy. the map as it is now has no trap for the mercs. i just placed them there and initiated the "cascade" as the shown events unfolded.

i'm not going to put unfair 1 strike kill traps into maps, don't want to frustrate people. rather they'll have a chance to use this feature against the AI. off course if yo get into a bushfire by bad luck, then it's bad luck. But it's designed that you can get out wihtou too much damage.

i myself, my motivation isn't to make everything harder. rather giving more options and adding events that should add to atmosphere Wink
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127235] Fri, 06 October 2006 06:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3787
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
i agree , stick it in ! :diabolical:


Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127236] Sat, 14 October 2006 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Something just happened (again!),using the old beta editor and original tilesets for some templates.
Can't get rid of this message:
http://xrmb2.net/img/images/684180.jpeg
Sure...
Anybody knows what I messed up, and what is to be done?Hope this doesn't screw all my maps, although even after quitting the program and firing it up again and loading another map the message doesn't go away.

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127237] Sat, 14 October 2006 01:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
i've had that only once thus far and posted like the same screenshot. i think you won't be able to load that map in question anymore.

i trashed my map in question and rebuilt it.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127238] Wed, 25 October 2006 05:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Remade queen prison in your mailbox,working and tested.Including that damn crate where enemies put equipment of the captured mercs.
Oh,if the radarmap shows black during the interrogation by...Vicky,it's normal.I had forgotten that after so many years of not surrendering and almost got worried. Smile

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127239] Wed, 25 October 2006 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vicky

 
Messages:66
Registered:January 2006
Location: New Zealand
Huh? What have I done now?
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127240] Thu, 26 October 2006 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Well,aren't you the one that voices the evil ex-Deidranna interrogator too?I don't have your voice,but Scorp will probably be interrogated if he allows himself to be captured.In a map where I've barely restrained from giving you needles and drugs, Wink

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127241] Thu, 26 October 2006 02:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
no, she isn't voicing the female bad guy, that's probably why she didn't get that joke


it took me some time to figure it too because of that.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127242] Thu, 26 October 2006 05:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vicky

 
Messages:66
Registered:January 2006
Location: New Zealand
Sorry for ruining the fun.. I couldnt manipulate my voice enough to be evil.. i just dont have it in me! Razz
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #127243] Fri, 27 October 2006 05:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JohnnyK3886

 
Messages:25
Registered:February 2006
Location: VA

Quote:


(finding female voices is the hardest part. two of them i still need for sure, one of them has already an actress, the second one i still need to find her)


[/QB]
I might be able to convince my girlfriend to do it. :secret:
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #141641] Tue, 29 May 2007 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Hehehe, imagine doing this('mosquee', shops and all) and testing the map,aand...suddenly a char mentions a mansion. Aaaarrgh! "Comandir idiot". Smile
http://xrmb2.net/img/images/713351.jpeg

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #141860] Wed, 30 May 2007 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
yeah. the commandir with the police hat in this section of the forum is to blame. he didn't keep his comments generic enough. But in many sectors, comments are rather generic so the characters wouldn't interfere with map changes.

guess i wasn't careful enough on that one
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #141873] Wed, 30 May 2007 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
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Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
@AZAZEL: why does that road wind around that builing in such an awkward way, when it could just go straight on the other side? looks like a very bad case of drunken roadworkers or planners!

☆★GL★☆
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #141972] Thu, 31 May 2007 07:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Guess planners were drunken alright, when they planned some other buildings around that road, and have built the road first.(it's a technicality, building ja2 maps, it's better to curve buldings around roads than roads around buildings). On the other hand, big buildings need space around them, to "breathe". Still unfinished map, but I liked the way it looked at that stage, not haunted by too many buildings and details; rather plant a tree or a little useless trail, than a building. Smile


Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #141979] Thu, 31 May 2007 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1820
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Yeah, there's only so much you can do with roads that only curve at right angles. I think it looks very good for a start. Tactically, it may already be good enough for a 'killer map'.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #142062] Thu, 31 May 2007 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SharkD

 
Messages:355
Registered:July 2003
Where do you get the sprites from for new things like boats and tanks and stuff? I notice that they are rendered at the wrong angle and with wrong lighting sometimes. I would like to retry rendering them, except with proper lighting and camera angles. Do you have 3D models/textures I can work with?
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #142198] Fri, 01 June 2007 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1820
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
If you could render tiles from scratch you'd really be something around here. Most of the tiles I make are from pictures I find through endless hours of internet labouring. You have to get the original picture at just the right angle and lighting or it really looks like shit.


I could show you some of mine but they aren't much better than these so if you know how to render either real pictures or self made images in isometric form we'd all love to see your work.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #142206] Fri, 01 June 2007 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
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Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
i just have pictures. Nothing else.

the only thing that i can do is look for better pictures. ;-(
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #148525] Sat, 07 July 2007 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
http://xrmb2.net/img/images/716614.jpeg
Is this a good picture?

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #148533] Sat, 07 July 2007 23:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1820
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Very good. Me likey.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #148589] Sun, 08 July 2007 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:766
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Yes, the map looks good.
If most (but of course not all) of the soldiers stay where they are, then player snipers should not have a field day on this map Wink


Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #152742] Sun, 12 August 2007 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

If it's still needed, both levels are accessible and playable provided a CAVERN in any sublevel.

All You have to do is a teleport for each level, both linked to some of any underground levels.

You dig a cave in any sector with two teleports - one to the ground level (close to the mountain), second - to the upper level.

The sense is a cavern in the hill or mountain.

In tests (You can download an example from other thread), mine entrances were used for ground level, and shell-holes masked with bush - for ON_TOP level.

All work very well, but, as Scorpion pointed somewhere here, if You erect houses with flat roofs on the upper level, guys ot these roofs would be killed only from roofs of same level. Take care, use slanted roofs only, when mapping ON_TOP.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153027] Tue, 14 August 2007 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
you refer to one of the maps in question? the one with the enemy on the lower side of the cliffs?

you're right we could make this enemy's equipment available by allowing the player to teleport there. i think there was a teleport from the adjacent map south... but i might be mistaken

will have a look at that.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153130] Wed, 15 August 2007 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

This is more general - refer to Azazel post hereabove (circled screenshot).

The game engine permit both levels to be playable. There is even the mountain climbing animation for st. male (in anims.slf - s_mclimb.sti. Spiderman, no?!)
But vanilla engine permit access to only one level - ground (cf. A8), or top of hill (cf. Wildcats lair I16).

But, if You provide a cavern "in the mountain" - You have a true two level sector! The only restriction - enemies (afak) can't pursuit You in the cave (because teleport)!
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153136] Wed, 15 August 2007 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
i think that by loading the map new by teleporting, you'll get enemy placements resetted.

so you come in on the lower side of circled screenshot map, kill the guard there, teleport to cavern, teleport up to the higher level and probably the guy that you just killed on the lower level reappears because enemy placements were resetted during the new loading of the map.

that could be a problem, no?


i know about the high climbing animation. Too bad it isn't used, would be fun for mountain ambushes and such...
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153147] Wed, 15 August 2007 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

Yes, the placement will be reset... But:

1. No matter, as far as corpses remain (les pauvres)!
2. Nice - like enemies are on Your traces, wanting to f... Your back...
3. Restriction in mapmaking - priority exist. checked and/or attitude (?) like close patrol set.

And i can enter also the top of hill, then (thru cave) enter the lower level (stealthy, and "couper les tous en morceaux, les cons!").

Imagine a two level "mountain training camp"! (Where's my VSS "Vintorez"...) Or a sky training base?!.

As per cavemaking. It is a very nice trick - the difference in output to screen between the caves with "numbered rooms" and unnumbered ones.

The numbered ones have the roof, unnumbered - don't. So, with numbered rooms in cave level You can make as many autonomous "cave rooms" as the map and common sense will permit! If You enter one "cave room", You see only(!) those You already visited.

As per "dinamic" top-of-hill embuscades! Who's the bad guy interdicting You to mask (camoufler) standard south walls and (flat)roofs in mountain sides and terrain textures with trees and bushes?
It rest to check for roofs JSDs - to make rocks and bushes JSDs with On_Top flag. Wanted to do it for long ago, but not yet started - lack of C practice.

There are experimental JSDs (and STIs) of "flatroof with sandbag" in Night Ops maps, by Neyros, Terapevt and PM, but they are unstables and "crashgiving" - transparent in some areas, corpse can drop in the wall tile, etc.

Hope only on 1.13 coders for some explanations of JSD engine... The sources of the JSD editor were sent to Lalienxx - rien qu'attendre, c'est tous ce qui nous reste...

Would You kindly accept "a drop of tar in Your honey barrel" (a fly in the ointment)?

Your Electric Discharge perfectly extraordinary and looking REAL (!) one. More than felicitations!

But the motors in vent. things work at 380 V three phases, and are not so big ones to give such a lightning, even instantly stopped (Ul = L*(dI/dt))! (More Phisics could be written here, but simply trust, please.)

It would be more REAL to make an "Electric Installation", say, 100 kV to 380 V transformer room! There, a lightning could even be MULTIdirectional!!!

As per venthole, for example, if merc try to stop the fan's blades, the motor explose, the nearby "electric box" smoke and alarm trigger is set!

[Updated on: Wed, 15 August 2007 02:47] by Moderator

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153148] Wed, 15 August 2007 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
ah, i see the trick about the room numbers and caves. that would be useful for a scenario where a team assaults a beach/ ravine fortification on mulitple spots at a time.

check ja2 vengeance for sandbags on roof... they worked in ja2 vengeance, in 1.13, these things are more limited (risk of crashes)

a bit of this stuff will also be in ja2 RR, plus i'm looking do finish a job i had started ages ago using onroof jsds.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153150] Wed, 15 August 2007 02:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

About "roofbag"... In NO, the main problem was in tiles, adjacent to "roofbag'ed" ones. They were partly transparent, partly "climbable" from inside, and sometimes corpses dropped thru sandbags, causing crash...

It seems it's time to install Vengeance - was waiting for a stable release, but shall try right now.

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153186] Wed, 15 August 2007 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
oh, wait, i think vengeance's roofbags had similar problems, especially the partial transparency and maybe also the climbing if the normal roof tile below had to be deleted due to transparency.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153211] Wed, 15 August 2007 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

When have You released the first Vengeance version? It may be the NO sandbaged roofs and Vengeance ones are "freres-jumeaux"? (Always the "accent" problem...).
Who have done the JSDs?

O.K. Have the date - http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/62990/page/1#Post62990

It seems, they are!..

BTW. Have You seen the post about JSDedit version with fixed bug in Structure view?

Remembered my delay with Vengeance - been waiting for russian translation, but it slowed down, don't know why... Were even asked to edit some dialogues, but was really busy at the time.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 August 2007 16:58] by Moderator

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153215] Wed, 15 August 2007 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
fr
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153365] Thu, 16 August 2007 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

Pictures are here http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/152577/page/1#Post152577

The bug was due to misinterpretation of JSD matrix values. They were assumed (thus coded) like weights - so indicated as bars with max. height 15.

In fact, they are no weights, but layers of 3D singular matrix (one filled with "ones" - sic!).

Cf. the thread open especially for such "nice pieces" of JA engine:
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/152399/page/1#Post152399

and more concrete one

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/152399/page/1#Post152657.

BTW. In (because?) Redesigning my son's kitchen a new trick for multilevel appeared "en nuages de sciure". Pictures - tomorrow. Wanna sleep...

Are You familiar with C? Of course, it is possible to "affine" all things in JA and design many more new ones, Complete JSD understanding provided.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 August 2007 23:34] by Moderator

Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153372] Fri, 17 August 2007 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
CNC_gun


BTW. In (because?) Redesigning my son's kitchen a new trick for multilevel appeared "en nuages de sciure". Pictures - tomorrow. Wanna sleep...


i'm preparing something in this respect as well. will have to wait for after ja2 rr though, as all the other things i'm working on.

but i've found a almost unmofied ja2, where i cannot destroy too much by playing around with tiles, on my hard drive somewhere and will run some tests to see if the idea works.

after RR, i might be interested in doing a bit of a workover to the ja2 maps, jsd's and the like. Hope you'll still be around then Wink
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153418] Fri, 17 August 2007 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

Shall be here... As per JA2 - can provide You with ISO's or RARed "game directories" of all russian editions - 1.02 (aka Buka), 1.01 UB (Buka), 1.12 Gold Ed. (Buka Gold), 1.12 New Ed. (Akella), WildFire 5 and 6 (even with uncrypted exe (que diable!)).

All things, described here, were tested on original vanilla JA2 1.02 maps, as 1.13 was installed over the "vierge" JA2 installation.

The thing dreamed but never tested (une de ces trouilles), it's an ARC or PORCH, but with JSDs arranged to leave 2 (two) "bricks" high passage. To imitate tubes, sewerage systems, breaks in walls etc.
The problem - could a merc pass obstacles becoming crouched or even prone. Other case - the barrage or turnpike - why merc can't pass it crowling (en rampant)?

Have You seen the pictures with JSD editor?

Well, it's time to put the sawmill on... Hope to finish soon, and to post some drafts...
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153422] Fri, 17 August 2007 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
CNC_gun

The thing dreamed but never tested (une de ces trouilles), it's an ARC or PORCH, but with JSDs arranged to leave 2 (two) "bricks" high passage. To imitate tubes, sewerage systems, breaks in walls etc.
The problem - could a merc pass obstacles becoming crouched or even prone. Other case - the barrage or turnpike - why merc can't pass it crowling (en rampant)?

Have You seen the pictures with JSD editor?


don't think the first idea would work. but i never really tested it myself. I guess a tile either is passable or not, there might be no check for the merc's stance at all (merc's height not considered variable by the code for such an action?). might require a code change. would be a very cool feature

yes, i've seen the pics abou the jsd editor, but i haven't understood what the bug was exactly about. JSD's don't compose of bricks but of... something else? and what impact does this have on jsd's generated by the old jsd editor?
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153541] Sat, 18 August 2007 05:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

Bricks?.. Why not? Can't find a right word... JSquanta may be, or "cubes", used in other thread?

The JSD editor work well, exept for types 1 and 3 (at least the version we have here).

It have only one minor inconvenience - JSD structure is SHOWN like bars, not like the JSD really "works" and not like the JSDs are handled by game engine.

So it was very annoying to redraw every matrix on paper to check for all "trous" in the structure, and a new handler for visualisation of the structure was written.
It was planned to add "full multitile view", even with rotation, but works were stopped by force majeure, and not yet restarted. Other dream was a special tileset, composed from JSD pictures only... To play with JSD engine. But it seems a lot of work is needed, as such a tileset must be dinamical, generating complex STIs from elementary JSD "cubes" according to the selected set of JSD files...

If You want, You may compare the JSD view on the original version and on the new one. The last (on the posted screenshot) is a dead cow head, and it look like a dirty digitised one, and not like a set of bars. The third post mentioned above should give some understanding on the JSD visualisation.

Hope, lalienxx will have a look on sources of the editor, at least to add type 1 and 3 handling.

Are i dummy? Can send You the new .exe for test and comparison, but it's larger than original, due to compiling mode.
As per artists to draw new STIs... Hope, something will change soon...
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153553] Sat, 18 August 2007 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
good, so it's only a change in visualisation. i was getting afraid it was more serious. good that's not the case

type 1 and 3 are what?
i know that jsd editor right now can't handle walls, roofs, as well as animated jsd's. would be awesome to be able to make longer than 8 framed animations Wink

as far as the new version of jsd editor is concerned, as soon as it's publicly released, you can post a link for us, no?

as far as artists creating tilesets is concerned: i only know of a small number of people doing this in a certain quality. you see the stuff on my screenshots, 3d instead of isometric looks bad in ja2, but there's only very limited possibilities to obtain isometric pictures of certain objects

some awesome work was done by a couple of people, from nowa caledonia mod, legion 2, MFM and some other mods in the past (fallout raider menace/ jaFall) or in development (search and destroy) but i guess these things tend to get lost or the unfinshed projects get forgotten about by developers abandoning them.

same as with animations, tileset design work is challenging and tricky, thus few people doing it and hardly anybody showing anything in public
you'd have to find some people reliably working on these things. But i think such an attempt has been started before, and there was little echo in this forum. I guess artists would have to be handpicked and personally invited to join such an effort rather than be adressed in a general way through forums.
Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153573] Sat, 18 August 2007 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CNC_gun

 
Messages:83
Registered:July 2007
Location: Moscow, RF

The Isometry drafts - look here: http://www.le-boite.com/minos.htm
Really helpful - You draft the object roughly in true isometry, You put light to have shadow and "colour games", You save as bitmap and You finish in Photoshop or STI editor.

Frankly - can't imagine an object, what is as "indraftable", as "unisometrible"! Horrible lexique!!!

JSDs are three types, the editor handle only type 2, but You can adapt every JSD in the game to type 2 by hexing the file header.
Shall try to show this more clearly.

In the other thread, "bricks" were "cubes", but they aren't really, being dinamic "by design"!!! Please, check the third link in the post hereabove.







Re: Game world and mapmaking[message #153662] Sun, 19 August 2007 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Here's what a search can reveal on isometric tilesets:
http://www.pixelfreak.com/b2/ah.html
Fantasizing?

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