Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » "1.13" Mod - Main Thread
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10573]
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Mon, 29 August 2005 21:31  
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| Wil473 |
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Messages:2808
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada |
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Sorry, but I've got to disagree about the drop everything option, it did impact the gameplay by keeping me in surplus funding during sci-fi mode. The bug quest started right after Tixa (order of cities: Drassen, Chitzena, Alma, Tixa). Despite losing Drassen was able to top off with 18 mercs, leave a few behind in Drassen to suppress bug attacks, take Cambria, Balime and Grumm, train till each city sector had 20 blue mercs and pay MERC till they had Cougar. Between Tony and Franz(?) in Balime was able to avoid any short falls (complaints from local hires not being paid). Took back the mines when I could hire Cougar and had high capcity LMG's (didn't want to cart along too much spare ammo). I found drop all beneficial (realism), but others may consider the funding options it opens up to be a bit of a challenge reducer. (Ok I admit it, I found that beneficial as well.)
Incidentally, the new AI abandoned the General in Alma, which made the whole sneak into base to secure control room a bit silly. Burst into control room and everyone was outside on the roof waiting for my less covert team and its "clean-up" operation. It stands out in my mind of a rather funny incident more than anything else.
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10575]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 00:10
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1833
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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absolutely great stuff muggs!
i`ll surely do a large weapon/ itemmod for this
however, i`ll never come close to 5000 items (after all, some sort of balance is required)
but i can think of new attachments, new specialized sniper ammo, particuliarly accurate rifles and so on
adding different explosives and LAW-types
melee items (can i also have an item that uses the throwing knife animation but doesn`t need to generate a new item?)
really, the possibilities you offer are incredible
btw is it also possible to have the "small rocket" animation tied to ammunition? because for instance monster spit has a similar aniamtion tied to it
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10579]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 03:03
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| Madd_Mugsy |
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Messages:626
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada |
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Scorpion,
Quote:
melee items (can i also have an item that uses the throwing knife animation but doesn`t need to generate a new item?)
Yes. If you don't specify a bloodied item #, it just keeps the original item.
If khor can do the animations for it, I can probably also add in swords, and dual-wielding for knives/swords. (Heck, rifles too, for the stonger guys).
Quote:
btw is it also possible to have the "small rocket" animation tied to ammunition? because for instance monster spit has a similar aniamtion tied to it
Right now it's just assignable to a weapon, using the rocketrifle tag. Were you thinking of something in particular that would require the small rocket flag to be in the ammo and not the weapon?
gpmg,
Quote:
I think Madd Mugsy is actually three or four guys. This is an insane amount of work you've done.
It's just me. I work pretty fast, and have been neglecting my wife and other work for the last few days 
BTW, I have also "acquired" a pdf version of the D20 Ultramodern firearms book. I'm hoping that it's got reasonable stats I can port over to JA2.
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10580]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 07:43
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1833
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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i was thinking of that particuliar ammo that glows (don`t know english name... tracer maybe?)
that would need a smart redesign of the rocket rifle smoke trace though, which is hard to do (you guessed it... i already tried and it looks bad)
but if i have only 1 gun using that ammo than it would also work with current version (again it`s no "urgent" feature as i`d have to get some acceptable animation anyway
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10585]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 10:11
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1833
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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the first link i got in google shows this pic of a 5.56 beta-c mag
http://www.uws.com/CMAG/Technical.html
it is the same as the pic that i uploaded
i dunno if there are 7.62 versions of beta c mags, but there are certainly 7.62 nato ammo boxes or belts
(snap has certainly some pics of that in the archives he uploaded)
btw i played an exe where the sniper scope allows you to see 2 tiles further when the weapon is in ready position (aiming)
this is an interesting feature and allows for new tactics
would need some testing concerning sniping enemies though
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10587]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 10:40
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1833
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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you were misinformed in the beginning of the thread i think
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg18-e.htm
her is th HK 21
it uses a nato box
i think the picture is in snap`s upload so you can just switch the 7.62 c.mag for one of his pictures there
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg19-e.htm
here is a 5.56 LMG w a beta-c mag
i find it a good solution that you need to aim in a certain direction in order to see farther with a scope. should also cause the sighting radius to become much smaller i find
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10589]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 11:43
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 Snap |
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Messages:285
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo... |
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Quote:Originally posted by Madd Mugsy:
I'd like to add some more new weapons bonuses before I do a release too. Things like bonuses to ammo capacity and a bonus to reduce the # of APs to ready & reload weapons would be cool. Bonuses to reduce the burst penalty or the # of APs needed to beging autofiring are totally doable too. "Bonus to ammo capacity", i.e. magazine adapter can be simply implemented by merging items: merge the gun with the adapter item and get a new gun with a different capacity. The new gun can reuse the same picture (or have a slightly modified picture) and just have a slightly different name and description. This will save attachment slot, too.
How about a negative bonus to APs or burst penalty? Certain attachments might have such negative effects. In fact, most bonuses could be implemented such as to allow negative values, as well as positive.
Quote:I'd like to also go ahead and have the vision/hearing range bonuses look at attachments. (That way a gun with a scope could actually let you see farther) Dangerous stuff :nono: Not that it won't work, but if you have, say, a visual range bonus for scope, it'd better be balanced with a more narrow field of view and decreased awareness. And it should only have an effect when the gun is actually readied. In any case, it might have a weird effect on the gameplay...
Speaking of readying the gun, do you think it could be implemented? I mean, having a button or at least a hot key that would allow you to raise the gun without necessarily firing it?
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10590]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 12:04
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1833
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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i second that idea of narrowed field of view if scopes (weapon in ready state) allow for longer visula range
btw i`m playtesting an exe that has this feature. It is best implemented if only sniper rifles allow sniper scopes and the field of vision is narrowed
night vision scope the same. it is pretty balanced, as you need peeople to cover your flanks if you want to do some sniping (especially with that smarter AI in this Mod)
using ctrl-r hotkey combo, the weapon can be brought in ready state. This was implemented by neyros using code-insertion i guess so it should also be possible for a new compiled exe
ahh, yes, something else: an attachment that lowers the weapon`s weightand AP usgage for bringing the weapon in ready position: permanent attachemnt folding buttstock (only allowed on weapons with heavy, fixed buttstock)
(well, if we have 5000 items we can also do that using merging
that`d be a nice thing anyway to since most weapons today are being produced in "family`s", means you have a carbine, an assault rifle and an LMG that originate from the same gun
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10595]
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Tue, 30 August 2005 23:02
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| surefire |
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Messages:15
Registered:August 2005 |
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@wil473,
The Beta C-mag can be used by many 5.56NATO rifle families by applying corresponding magazine adapter(or Feed Clip Kit by Beta Co.). We could see this Feed Clip Kit on Beta Company's homepage: http://www.betaco.com
And interestingly, Beta Co. now can provide a COLT 9MM C-MAG System which could be used by MP5 series, but it has a different Feed Clip Kit than familiar 556 C-mag.
So i think the magazine-adapter-attachment idea should do if technically the # of rounds for a gun can be changed.
Moreover, if the real empty clip can be simulated, then it will be more fun and real-life like, for instance though we could got a magazine adapter in the game, we perhaps have no a C-mag in the same time, and those C-mags are not cheap($200 each), we should not just throw them away . And technically i believe the magazine adapter should be mounted on the C-mag other than the gun.
EDIT:
Have any mods realized "corner shooting" or any such things? I mean if a merc stands next to a corner-tile or a door-tile he/she can shoot(or throw grenades) the other side while enemies cannot see his/her body. Of course this kind of shooting can not be accurate because the merc only reach out hand but head. This maybe tactically useful, such as room-cleaning and should be used by enemy as well. Don't know whether this could be done by simply allowing shooting from the tile next to the corner-tile or the opened-door-tile.
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Private
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10604]
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Wed, 31 August 2005 19:00
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| Snap |
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Messages:285
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo... |
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Quote:Originally posted by Madd Mugsy:
As for AI snipers, I noticed that I missed checking for a decent chance to hit before a sniper takes a shot. Ah, that's what I thought. It seems to me that JA2 AI isn't very sophisticated - it's basically a cascade: if it doesn't do one thing, then it will do the next in line, or the next, etc. Oh well.
BTW, does AI try to avoid standing in the light in 1.12? I've seen some code that is supposed to do that (for enemies on red alert only), but I wonder whether it actually makes a difference.
Quote:Speaking of which, what are opinions on supression fire like? I think I could add it in for LMG type weapons using code similar to the sniper code. Hm, not sure. Make it affect morale depending on experience? (Cowards get double penalty, of course.)
Quote:What kinds of things would you guys like to see in an ini file exactly? - A scale for skill progression. As Khor suggested in another thread, skills may improve too fast, especially in densely populated mods. Then again, you initially made skill progression even faster than in the original, so opinions differ. That's just the kind of thing that would be best left as an option. Could be implemented as a percent fraction - from, say, 10% (or whatever is reasonable) to 200%. 100% is the default.
- Zero skills can improve (yes/no)
- A scale for enemy population. Some like to have lots and lots of enemies, others find it too hard or too tedious.
- A scale for mine income, perhaps? Might be too tempting 
- New and improved Bobby Ray's vs. Bobby Ray's Classic 
- Hearing noises reveals hidden enemies vs. the older, more primitive but arguably more realistic implementation.
- Critical hit scale or switch, for those who like FPS-style gamplay
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10605]
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Wed, 31 August 2005 22:10
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| flybyu |
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Messages:43
Registered:August 2005
Location: Indiana U.S.A |
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I took all burst fire off all weapons that did not have burst fire. Just Full or semi-auto.
Man you want to talk about war bullets flying everywhere those words COVERING FIRE comes real now.
I have see an npc empty an HK-21 I mean none stop I bet in real life he would have been thinking about replacing that barrel very soon. And yes if you or mercs are not by good cover you will die. Snipers Heck you don
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Corporal
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10606]
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Wed, 31 August 2005 23:44
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| the scorpion |
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Messages:1833
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH |
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something else that used to be discussed but was bever made: when a merceanry has 2 MAC-10`s for instance and goes full auto...
...can he fire from both weapons?
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10610]
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Thu, 01 September 2005 03:04
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| Khor1255 |
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Messages:1815
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ |
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I think supression fire should definately exist and; to my knowledege, the way the mercs already deal with it seems realistic enough. The one thing I would change is when brave or high level mercs are under supression fire they lose some APs (presumably from fear), I think this should only apply to cowards and incrementally to lower levels.
For instance:
1st level = 100% of whatever the AP penatly is. Cowards at first level = 160%.
2nd level = 80% the AP penalty, 90% for 2nd level cowards.
3rd level = 60%, 70% coward.
4th = 40%, 50% coward.
5th = 20%, 30% coward.
At 6th level this penalty is removed for non cowards and reains at 20% of the AP reduction for cowards reguardless of their level thereafter.
As for skill progression being adjustable, this could serve to give every player the game they want. If you could make it toggleable that would be the best possible solution. I'm of the mind that skills with zero stats apply to people who have some kind of mental bloc about learning this skill (hemphiliacs having zero Medical for instance). Having this being adjustable via Proedit solves this problem for anyone who doesn't want untrainable skills (I used to feel this way).
A way to adjust fire rates of all weapons would be awesome for the weaponmod. I know I've asked this before, but being able to have Full Auto only would allow for weapons that have this shortcomming. Of course, burst fire penalties would apply but maybe people with autofire skill could coax single shots?
Anyway, I think double handed machinegun bursts should be allowable but with a substantially increased autofire penalty (at least 200%).
Noises giving away friend or foe is theoretically possible but so many variables would have to contribute to this it is tricky. However, if you could code in a recognition of which type of ammo is being fired, this might not only reveal enemies in certain situations but also clue players in to which type of weapon they're up against. I don't mean revealing through text the specific weapon only the ammo type. This last idea is way down the wish list though and maybe not worth much time trying to implement.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10611]
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Thu, 01 September 2005 04:14
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| Madd_Mugsy |
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Messages:626
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada |
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Wow, you guys have some serious requests here.
The INI file: I'll see what I can do for this, but it may not make this release.
I will be removing the skill training increase and replacing it with Snap's suggestions in the other thread. A multiplier could be put into an ini file easily enough in the future.
Bobby Ray's: I've removed the "Good" setting, and replaced it with "Normal", which is the same as the default JA2 BR. (BTW, the "Good" setting only had better quality used items anyway)
Hearing noises: Yes, the Extended Ear locator can go into an ini file, but I'm not going to identify ammo being fired (too much work).
Two-handed bursts: This is definitely not going to happen. There is _way_ too much code depending on the bursting gun being in the top hand slot.
Suppression fire:
Done. Enemies must have a better than 10% chance to hit, must have an auto-fire capable weapon, must have more than 50 bullets in their gun, must be able to fire at least 10 bullets (no max) and the target can't be on a roof. Existing suppression fire code already handles morale, etc.
gpmg, I'll look into your issue with the ammo belt. It's probably something to do with the 255 bullets / clip limit.
I've reduced the number of enemies starting off on roof tops. While I've never seen them all up there in Alma or Meduna, it can be silly to watch 6 guys all huddled up on one building. Anyway, the chances of them starting on roofs have been (hopefully) reduced. However, the chances of enemies with sniper rifles and/or sniper scopes climbing onto rooftops have increased.
I'll see if I can get a merc to say something along the lines of "I've got a bad feeling about this..." when there are snipers dug in on the rooftops.
I've added a few on-screen messages as well. You'll see a quick "Sniper!" warning when an enemy sniper is taking a shot, so you'll know what's actually going on. There's a similar message for suppression fire.
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, another two factors should be the accuracy threshold(for instance 1% or 5%) and # of bullets enemy machine gunner would fire for a supression firing(for instance 20 bullets per time). These two factors can be put into that ini file.