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Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10728] Thu, 08 September 2005 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
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I agree that unity would be the best way to get the game we all want done without having multiple incompatabilities that could well result in making more work to 'homogenize' the code than the work of actually making the changes.

However, we have to work with what we have here and (thanx to Mugsy) what we have is a hugely - no drastically improved version that he has even taken the time to make non programmer friendly. To my knowledge noone else has this concern even on thier plate. It's great to make changes and have a new version of the .exe but isn't Mugsy's approach waaayyy better?
What this guy is doing is making the tools for easy modifacations so that those of us with a little creativity but no compiler (not to mention no programming skill) can turn our attention away from the technical problems of modding and get on with the important work of actually making new mods. I strongly believe THIS project to be the most likely great innovation in the entire series. It's possible a proffessional outfit might come out with something cool, but they seem to be incessantly dragging thier collective ass so this is by far our best bet. And I have to add it is a very good one at that.
Think about it, here we have a developer (Mgsy) who actually solicits our input then - and this is threally astounding thing - implements the more sensable suggestions as soon as he can!

Please, take a look at what we have here before getting frustrated or losing any faith. Mugsy has documented his Updated code the same place he offers the EXE download. Ideally, he would also document each and every change but since there are so many lines this might slow him down or (God forbid) even turn him off to the whole thing.
I say any contribution the Mod Squad can offer would be greatly appreciated but if they choose to go in thier own direction (perhaps because of the numerous incompatable changes thier version has compared to Mugsy's) I only hope what they produce is of the same calibur as what we've already seen here.

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Sergeant Major
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10729] Thu, 08 September 2005 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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I kinda like the way that things are evolving in this project that Mugsy's got going. There's plenty of community involvement, testing/bug reporting (informal) and the code is overseen by the chief architect. It's a good open source model of development (although the source isn't really licenced to be community-owned.) The other projects are obviously choosing a different path and seeking their own counsel on things to change in the code, that's fine too. Kinda like the differences between the way that BSD and Linux development models differ.

If joining all of these projects together means that this project gets slowed down while waiting for organisational reasons, it's not really a good idea. If there are more and different ideas that's not always bad. In the end there will be a bunch of code that can all be integrated with the best ideas, or not. It's not like Mugsy's been quietly developing this without any notion of the vision of the game that people want to see, it's been pretty exciting to see and I think the ideas bouncing around are almost as much fun as playing the game.

Codesplits and such are normal in many community-based projects and the code gets reused and merged into new projects anyway. It's evolutionary. I can't wait to see what comes out of all this. Has anyone from the other projects made any comment?

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First Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10730] Thu, 08 September 2005 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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Khor, I wasn't getting frustrated, and I wasn't slamming Mugsy or anyone, I'm definitely agreeing with what he's doing, and I'll be helping out as much as I possibly can.

I was just thinking that it could all be better if all teams were on the same project, bu then gpmg made a very valid point, that I agree with, and so it's done Smile We'll wait and see how things go. I've already picked the project I want to be in on... this one.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10731] Thu, 08 September 2005 03:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
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Right. I totally agree. And I wasn't trying to imply that you were slinging mud at anyone. I apologize if any of what I said sounded like that.

What I was trying to say is that if they choose to contribute, that's great, but if not I sincerely hope you folks with the programming know how will carry on with this because so many of the shortcommings of the game have already been fixed and with talented programmers the sky's the limit.
I'm nearing completion of one set of animations I hope will make it into the next release after this one. It's a small contribution but; I'm afraid, very time consuming so it's all I've been working on for the last week or so. Once the other two sets are done and tested another cool feature should be available.

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Sergeant Major
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10732] Thu, 08 September 2005 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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Considering neither of us are very good with graphics, I think that kind of contribution is definitely needed.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10733] Thu, 08 September 2005 04:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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Hear, hear!

Anyone who wants to help out by providing graphics and animations is more than welcome, and your work will not go unappreciated.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10734] Thu, 08 September 2005 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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New version's up!

See page one of this thread for the feature list.

You will need to start a new game, as it's incompatible with existing save games.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10735] Thu, 08 September 2005 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap is currently offline Snap

 
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Kaiden: There is a distinction between a stand-alone mod like UC, and incremental improvements of the code base like what Mugsy has been doing. One is a one-off effort that gives you an entirely new campaign, the other is creating a base upon which future mods can be built, while at the same time preserving (and greatly enhancing) the original JA2 campaign. So it's not surprising that everyone hasn't quit whatever they have been doing and joined us here.

This project really should've been a continuation of the Whitehad project. Except that Whitehat died a lonely death a long time ago, and people that were in charge don't seem to be around any more. Nothing to do about it.

If you know someone who has the beta editor source code, have you tried asking for it? It works sometimes Smile

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Master Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10736] Thu, 08 September 2005 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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Thanks for the new stuff. Can't wait to check it out!

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First Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10737] Fri, 09 September 2005 01:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynxlynxlynx is currently offline lynxlynxlynx

 
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Well, I'm not much of a classical coder and I don't really find much things in ja2 that bother me, so I doubt I will go hacking at the source.

But, I do have very good bash and sed (perl anyone?) abilities and love this kind of work. What I'm getting at is, if you ever need to change the data syntax, convert this to that and as long as it's plain text, I could help and willingly would. The tools I'd use aren't really portable, but that doesn't matter since it'd mostly be one time jobs. Once there is scalability regarding resolutions, translation improvements come to mind (length).

Thank you both for your efforts! I only recently found out ja2 was opensourced and since the whitehat thing is dead, you're the only hope left. :/

All these threads could be moved on to a new forum and the old whitehat stuff just stuffed into one more obscure.

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Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10738] Fri, 09 September 2005 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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Aren't you up to 1.14 yet? Razz

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10739] Fri, 09 September 2005 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
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yay easy weapon modifying Very Happy to bad i have to start over my game . but that's a price i'm willing to pay for all the new goodies Very Happy

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Master Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10740] Fri, 09 September 2005 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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Interim, quick bug fix build released. Compatible with previous savegames. Just the exe's changed.

EDIT: Oops, forgot to change the build date. Oh, well. It's not sept 9th yet anyway.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10741] Fri, 09 September 2005 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap is currently offline Snap

 
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Madd: found a typo in statchange in weapon.cpp. I could just send you a corrected file if you like. Also the stat gain for HtH doesn't quite mirror the skill requirement - I don't know if that was intentional or not. If not, I can correct that too.

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Master Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10742] Fri, 09 September 2005 23:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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No departure from your code was intentional. Please send the fixes to me or post them in the bugs thread, and I'll put 'em in. Thanks, Snap!

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10743] Sat, 10 September 2005 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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Sent you an e-mail Mugsy, had some questions about the climbing code.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10744] Sat, 10 September 2005 02:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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Kaiden,

Replied Smile Also noticed something else in the climbing code: I was referencing the wrong constant! Instead of AP_CLIMBROOF (10), I was using CLIMBUPROOF (32) from the animation states :bomb: Doh!

Now that I've fixed it, I think we can expect more enemies to climb up roofs and start shooting right away.

But I'm not sure how they were ever able to climb up before that, since they'd need 32 APs plus the APs to actually take a shot. They must've been in green status before climbing.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10745] Sat, 10 September 2005 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
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Doesn't the AI sometimes get 35 APs? I thoght I noticed this a few times by the ammount of running aroud and shooting they were doing. I don't have a problem with that (a freakin' machine needs some kind of advantage) but thought I'd ask.

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Sergeant Major
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10746] Sat, 10 September 2005 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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I don't think so. They should have the same number of APs as the mercs. (Except of course in Insane, where I gave them a 5pt bonus :diabolical: )

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10747] Sat, 10 September 2005 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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BTW, what are people's thoughts about the AI in the latest build?

I scaled it back a bit so less enemies would come looking for you when they heard/saw you. Are they too timid now? Or just right?

How's the suppression fire working out? And the extra elites in Insane?

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10748] Sat, 10 September 2005 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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Ya know... I think I might take a few days off and actually play it to find out Razz

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10749] Sat, 10 September 2005 10:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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Yeah, that'd be nice Wink Maybe I'll call in sick next week or something...

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10750] Sat, 10 September 2005 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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we could externalize that 5pt bonus too Razz and even offer one for every difficulty. Smile

Sorry I'm on a "Let me make a list of every single Constant in the game that's worth externalizing them and then order them by project and category" kick Razz

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10751] Sun, 11 September 2005 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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Just released a new build to fix a couple of minor issues:

-bug spit from m-14, fn-fal and g3a3
-climbing crash/speed
-interrupt duel calculation

Source has been updated too.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10752] Mon, 12 September 2005 02:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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Doh! I'd be finished with the Imp stuff today for sure lol. Did you change any of the laptop IMP files, or the video.h/video.cpp files?

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10753] Mon, 12 September 2005 02:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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Nope Smile You can keep using your version of the source for now.

I'm going to release another bug fix version this morning to address the problem with laser scopes and suppression fire. But nothing IMP-related will have changed.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10754] Mon, 12 September 2005 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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Alrighty then, expect a zip of Imp code from me later today, maybe I can get it done in time for that second patch Smile

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10755] Mon, 12 September 2005 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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9.11.05 build released.

Fixes:

- non-integrated laser scope and sniper scope bonuses actually work
- Suppression fire toned down a bit. Enemies must now be able to actually see you themselves (not just have one of their buddies see you), and must have less than 10% chance of hitting.

Hopefully the suppression fire change will make it a bit easier. Let me know if the AI does weird things now though.

I haven't updated the source code yet though, as I'm anticipating a bigger release in the next couple days, once Kaiden has finished his new UB-style IMP generation screens.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10756] Mon, 12 September 2005 03:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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I was thinking... if we HAD the german source code, wasn't it released over there? Anyone? What would it take to get a german speaking modder involved to carry the work over there? Ja2 is big in Germany no?

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10757] Mon, 12 September 2005 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
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DOH, stupid comment terminology had me all screwed up, I found the done button code and was correct about why it wouldn't show up. So... Now I have to debug my code, make sure I didn't break anything, make sure the skills get set correctly, make sure new imps get their UB calico, etc...

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10758] Mon, 12 September 2005 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
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maybe scorpion can help with that.

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Master Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10759] Mon, 12 September 2005 05:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
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help with what? as far as i know, only the version 1.12 source is released, but AFAIK (and i`m not a coder)you can build a german exe no?

anyway, the 1.12 source is the source they work with in german modding community. the number of active coders that are not involved wiht individual projects seems to be very small though

they`d like to have a source that has muggsy`s bugfixes but not all of the new features. i don`t know much more than that

best person to contact in that respect is "BONECHUCKER". He`s big in networking, so he`s probably the better link to the german moding community than i am. he`s got better english skills and more knowledge of the code as well

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Sergeant Major
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10760] Mon, 12 September 2005 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap is currently offline Snap

 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Madd Mugsy:
- non-integrated laser scope and sniper scope bonuses actually work
D'oh! So that's what is was...

What did you change in InterruptDuel? I am currently trying to investigate how interrupts work... or don't. The agility stat change will have to be scrapped for now: it's not that it doesn't work, but because interrupt code is much messier than I had realised, it only works some of the time.

As for interrupt point calculation, I may want to tweak that some more to give more weight to experience, after all.

I haven't tested health stat change, but that will almost certainly have to be adjusted, since I pretty much picked a random number...

I'll check other new stat change code for copy mistakes.

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Master Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10761] Mon, 12 September 2005 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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In InterruptDuel I just fixed my typing errors from your original code sample.

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10762] Mon, 12 September 2005 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DurtyDan is currently offline DurtyDan

 
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health stat change seems to increase nicely in v9/9/05. After 45 days and level 6, my IMP merc rose from 90 to 95 health. Didn't try to work on it the usual way (overloading, travel then cancel order). Not entirely sure what causes the increases, even after reading Snap's thread.

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Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10763] Mon, 12 September 2005 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
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OFF TOPIC


@Mugsy
Are you planning on releasing a new debug .exe? My current one still has the FAL Fires bug spit well...bug and I'm just wondering because this tool is helpful.

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Sergeant Major
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10764] Tue, 13 September 2005 02:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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What? Really? I thought I put a new one in the latest release. I know I made one; maybe I missed putting it in the zip?

Anyway, there'll be another new version in the next couple days, with some nice IMProvements Wink (thanks to Kaiden)

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First Sergeant

Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10765] Tue, 13 September 2005 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khor1255:
OFF TOPIC


@Mugsy
Are you planning on releasing a new debug .exe? My current one still has the FAL Fires bug spit well...bug and I'm just wondering because this tool is helpful.
when did you update the last time? cuase i don't have that bug in 9.11. release.

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Master Sergeant
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10766] Tue, 13 September 2005 03:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
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I just mean the Dubug .exe which is seperate from the regular one but very helpful for 'beta testing' purposes.

The FAL works fine for me as well. That bug's been thoroughly squashed.

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Sergeant Major
Re: "1.13" Mod - Main Thread[message #10767] Tue, 13 September 2005 04:13 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
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i thought both .exe were updated at the same time.

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