Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Gameplay Talk » 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike
1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11786] Sat, 17 September 2005 01:19 Go to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
I figure this may just need a whole new thread so here's what I want to know:

1. What options do you play with (Difficulty, Bobby Rays options, Enemy drops options, Sci-fi)

2. What Optional Features do you use (By optional features, I mean, Do you use the features that are On by default, but allow you to choose whether to use them or not) Examples would be the Delete all option, the Sell all option, multiple IMP mercs.

3. What do you think of the overall balance of the game and is there anything you would change to make it better for you?

4. What is your favorite Feature that you wouldn't live without?

5. Opposite of #4, what feature do you not like, or would like to change it's function slightly to better suite your playstyle.

6. In addition to #5 is there anything else you would change about 1.13 that can't easily be changed already in the XML files.

7. What are the most important bugs that you would want fixed ASAP ("All of them" is a valid answer, as well as "What bugs" Razz )

8. What feature (Including ones not listed in any current thread) would you like to see added more than anything else?

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11787] Sat, 17 September 2005 02:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
quasimodo is currently offline quasimodo

 
Messages:54
Registered:November 2000
Location: eugene, oregon U.S.A.
1) Expert, BR minimal, Drop all, Sci-Fi.

2) Multiple Imps, Delete all.

3) The way I play it is very well balanced.

4) Things I really like: Enemies on rooftops, UB style IMP creation, NV gogles and gas masks together. I like the experimental stat increases.

5) Everything OK so far.

6) I would like some form of squad formation movement in real time.

7) Bugs?...What bugs?

Cool see #6.

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Corporal
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11788] Sat, 17 September 2005 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
1)Expert, BR all, Drop All, Sci Fi (but I do more mod testing than actual playing)

2)Custom Multiple IMPs haven't tried the sell all option but it sounds cool.

3)Autofire is too accurate but other than that balance seems just about perfect.

4)Things I love: EXPANDED NO NONSENSE MODDABILITY, vastly improved ai, everything you've done with the IMP selection, everything about the item changes (I consider autofire a game engine change), in short, every single change that has been made except...

5)Am I losing my mind or are the enemy pain sounds when they get hit all different now? On my computer they sound all wrong. I like the old ones better.

6)Of course I'd like to see even more moddability perhaps starting with quests but the Beta Editor is a very close second. Fixing autofire to tone it down a bit is a major general concern. It's way too accurate and makes single shot fire useless at even moderate distance.

7) I really don't see many new bugs just sometimes turns seem to take longer like the computer is spending more time making decisions but I can deal with it for all the fabulous changes that have been made.

8)Crew served or even stationary heavy weapons would be great. But just cleaning up the code would also be a leap foreward.

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Sergeant Major
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11789] Sat, 17 September 2005 03:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Quote:

5)Am I losing my mind or are the enemy pain sounds when they get hit all different now? On my computer they sound all wrong. I like the old ones better.
You're losing your mind Wink

If/when I get a chance I prefer:

1) Insane/BR All/Drop All/Sci Fi

2) One IMP, but I may try more. I think it'd be cool if we could change their outfits so they don't all have white shirts and black pants. Maybe match them to their portraits. 90210 code is a must.

3) The new Alt-LMB sell option is probably a little too high at 25%. 10% might be better. I think if we reduce autofire accuracy, we should also reduce the number of APs needed.

4) The AI. Good luck surviving on the roofs in Insane nowadays without a level 10 merc with major agility (so he can get those interrupts). As soon as they get up there, they can take a shot. (I lost poor Grunty this way once, when a redshirt climbed up and went full-auto on him from 4 tiles away -- read the full story, and add your own, here: 1.13 war stories )

5) The AI. We still need to tweak it a bit. I saw one guy climb on to the roof and walk over to the middle beside my merc without firing a shot. Easy kill.

6) See 5.

7) Pffft. There aren't any bugs anymore, are there? Wink

Cool More items. More weapons. More armour. I'm probably going to start tackling some of this pretty soon, since it shouldn't take too much time to do. The hardest part is going to be trying to figure out what all the guns are in the other mods and pics people have sent me.

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11790] Sat, 17 September 2005 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
1. I am currently playing Insane, BR-All, Drop-ALL, Sci-Fi

2. All of them (I gotta test ya know...)

3. Haven't gotten far enough to experience balance or unbalance, the AI is definitely tougher, BUT I was able to purchase my 6th IMP merc with the proceeds from 2 battles fought and Alt-LMB, which needs to be restricted to town sectors if it isn't already (didn't test that part).

4. Being able to choose my Imp's Traits of course. But I'm Biased Smile

5. I'd up the cost of things in the Bobby Ray - Sell everything option. A price to pay for a better selection. But only increase the Sell price on the Awsome (and possibly excellent) options.

6. Agree with MM, still some "issues" to work out in the AI, While the enemy has Definitely gone through better training lately, they still do some very stupid "waste AP" type things.

7. The AP loss for grenades, the Leadership skill not capable of being set to 0, Breath bug, and the Throwing Knives. Simply because they are most likely to affect more people, and because 3 of them are fixed Smile

8. Vehicle Inventory and externalized options.

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11791] Sat, 17 September 2005 07:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
Messages:437
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
i have 2 games going on.

1 both Insane and realistic ,one with Drop all and one without. Bobby Rays's at Excellent both. and i don't play sci-fi always realistic.

2.4 IMPs in both. qucik delete and sell in Drop all game and only Delete in the Normal.

3. the balance has been screwed up but that's why i expected on Insane and on the other hand i can't think of anything that would actually help.

4. what Khor said Smile

5. hmmm , dunno.

6. AI can always be better yes.

7. none yet have been unavoidable so i'll be happy with everything you fix Smile

7. higher resolution Very Happy and some unique weapons , that can be build perhaps. Smile

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Master Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11792] Sat, 17 September 2005 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
When you say balance has been screwed up, you mean more difficult? or Stupidly easy?

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11793] Sat, 17 September 2005 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
What I mean is that it is now difficult to keep mercs alive once automatic weapons are present. Enemies drop like flys but so do Mercs. Unless you reload like crazy it's impossible not to lose someone in the first few days.

If autofire wasn't unrealisticly accurate I'd maybe be inclined to hold my tongue about this because the other factors are highly entertaining and add to the replayability.

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Sergeant Major
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11794] Sat, 17 September 2005 12:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DurtyDan is currently offline DurtyDan

 
Messages:103
Registered:November 2001
Location: Oregon, USA
My 2 cents:

1. Expert, awesome b-ray, non-sci-fi

2. multiple IMPs (I use 6) with 90210, so I can have each with a different shirt color

3. Balance seems fine, and flexible enough for everyone to tweak to their heart's content.

4. I love the new AI. Sometimes it can be boneheaded, but it is much improved.

5. none

6. (a)more guns, like the high end ones introduced in the last couple of years.

(b) Is someone already working on a map/quest mod for this great platform?

(c) How about more than 6 IMP mercs? I know the voices are a show-stopper now, but so much as been changed already, maybe this can be altered too. Maybe raise the generation cost to appease those concerned about balance. I wouldn't care if some voices were repeated with different MERCs, or we/I could chip in and record more (I would need some help sound editing)

(d) Why not bring the mercs from UB over to MERC? This has already been done at least once by others, veangence mod i think. Can this be done without replacing Biff, Flo, etc?

7. no bugs seem too bad, but is there a way to stop the hangups with stopwatch cursor when telling mercs to do some things? This happens sometimes when standing up next to a building, stealing, and so on. Not repeatable, either.

8. stationary emplacements, more useful fire support (why does line of sight have to matter to a mortar round????).

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Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11795] Sat, 17 September 2005 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dextertt is currently offline dextertt

 
Messages:54
Registered:November 2000
Kaiden,

1. What options do you play with (Difficulty, Bobby Rays options, Enemy drops options, Sci-fi)

Expert, BR All, Enemy drops All, Sci-fi

2. What Optional Features do you use (By optional features, I mean, Do you use the features that are On by default, but allow you to choose whether to use them or not) Examples would be the Delete all option, the Sell all option, multiple IMP mercs.

Sell all

3. What do you think of the overall balance of the game and is there anything you would change to make it better for you?

So far only taken two cities, game still challenging. My concern was in the original game, the game gets very easy once you control all the mines, have tons of money.

4. What is your favorite Feature that you wouldn't live without?

Increase sighting range.

5. Opposite of #4, what feature do you not like, or would like to change it's function slightly to better suite your playstyle.

6. In addition to #5 is there anything else you would change about 1.13 that can't easily be changed already in the XML files.

Sighting range

7. What are the most important bugs that you would want fixed ASAP ("All of them" is a valid answer, as well as "What bugs" [Razz] )

If you accidentially shoot or grenade militia they should not turn hostile on your mercs. somewhat of a bug.

8. What feature (Including ones not listed in any current thread) would you like to see added more than anything else?

Increase sighting range, again.

I remember discussing about increasing the sighting range with Madd Mugsy and the concensus was 1.5x the sighting range. I think this is important because with all the long range sniper rifles available, spoting is very crititical. I read through MM changelist.txt and do not see if MM did made the change.

Madd Mugsy, can the sighting range be increase to 1.5x ?

Thanks both Madd Mugsy and Kaiden for working on the code. It is one heck of a game that we will unlikely see made commercially again.

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Corporal
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11796] Sat, 17 September 2005 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
That's on my list, I just haven't gotten to that section of the code yet. There is ALOT of code. Tons. I mean it. Have you looked. I fell over in my chair the first time. Not sure how long I was out, could have been days. Razz

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11797] Sat, 17 September 2005 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PoliceLT is currently offline PoliceLT

 
Messages:31
Registered:August 2005
Location: Australia, Melbourne
1. I play on Expert, Normal drops, Bobby Rays the same on Sci-Fi mode.

2. I don't use any of the new optional features, I never seen a use for the destroy/sell buttons, I found a use for the chance-to-hit calculator and I feel that the IMP characters should only be 1.

Infact, I believe the IMP character is supposed to be yourself, not clones of yourself.

3. I don't see too much of a problem, it is rather hard to go play the game Splinter Cell style like I usually play, but I guess it's an excuse to play team-based.

4. I seriously have no idea. I figured out how to side-step ingame a few days ago, I found that extremely useful. Also, improved moddability.

5. People going up buildings for no reason. I don't really care about this feature too much, but I'm kind of aggrivated by having to clear out 5 people ontop of a building. Especially since they're usually black shirts

6. Not that I know of.

7. Not sure yet. I guess how the OICW has a strange looking grenade launcher is one, but that'd be it.

8. I demand 800x600. That's kinda a no brainer Razz

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Private 1st Class
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11798] Sat, 17 September 2005 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap is currently offline Snap

 
Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo...
I don't play yet, but if I did, it would be something like this:

1. Expert, normal Bobby Ray, NO DROPS (OK, normal drops Smile ), realistic.

2. Don't use sell all, don't use multiple IMPs - I prefer mercs with some personality.

3. That's a big can of worms. Money and weapons are probably over the top now. Autofire may need tuning up (discussed in another thread).

4. Err... Cheats? :naughty:

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Master Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11799] Sat, 17 September 2005 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
Snap, sent you a reply...

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11800] Sat, 17 September 2005 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap is currently offline Snap

 
Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo...
[quote]Originally posted by Madd Mugsy:
Quote:

4) The AI. Good luck surviving on the roofs in Insane nowadays without a level 10 merc with major agility (so he can get those interrupts). As soon as they get up there, they can take a shot.
I think that someone who just climbed up a roof should have a severe interrupt penalty. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

Of course, that will cut both ways: now that enemy soldiers are all living on roofs like cats, try getting them off there without getting killed... Perhaps enemy AI should be more responsive to noise: if it hears a shot, it should turn that way. Then with team work it would be possible to assault roofs. Smoke would be another solution.

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Master Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11801] Sat, 17 September 2005 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Quote:

(d) Why not bring the mercs from UB over to MERC? This has already been done at least once by others, veangence mod i think. Can this be done without replacing Biff, Flo, etc?
It's on the list of things to get to eventually.

Quote:

7. no bugs seem too bad, but is there a way to stop the hangups with stopwatch cursor when telling mercs to do some things? This happens sometimes when standing up next to a building, stealing, and so on. Not repeatable, either
This happens in 1.12 and earlier too. I decreased the lockup time, so it shouldn't be quite as long in 1.13. You can also try pressing Ctrl+Enter to make it go away. I forget if this requires the cheat mode to be enabled or not. We should disable that requirement if it's there.

Quote:

Madd Mugsy, can the sighting range be increase to 1.5x ?
I don't know if you saw my posts about this in ht e main thread, but I tried doing this and it through the whole game out of whack. What happened was the AI (not the flanking AI, that I had under control) wouldn't know what to do when it could see you from that far away, but not have any cover nearby or a decent shot to take. It would just run back and forth like some decaptitated chicken.

However, it IS possible to configure items to increase your sighting range. There's a tag in items.xml - VisionRangeBonus - that applies to all types of vision. Setting this to 13 or so, should effectively increase the visual range by 13 tiles when that item is used. This can be applied to ANY item that can be held or worn by the mercs / enemies. (For guns, the bonus is only applicable when the gun is raised in ready position) So this means, it's possible to create binoculars and stuff.

You could also just apply the bonus to, say, armoured vests (since everyone needs to be wearing those anyway), and effectively increase the sighting range by 1.5. Just don't be surprised if/when the enemy decides to do the chicken dance.

Quote:

5. People going up buildings for no reason. I don't really care about this feature too much, but I'm kind of aggrivated by having to clear out 5 people ontop of a building. Especially since they're usually black shirts
Hey wouldn't you go hide up in a tree (roof) if there were scary mercs after you? Wink

Seriously, it's because of the cover value. It IS a good place to hide.

Quote:

7. Not sure yet. I guess how the OICW has a strange looking grenade launcher is one, but that'd be it.
Make us a better pic, and we'll fix it.

Quote:

enemy soldiers are all living on roofs like cats, try getting them off there without getting killed...
They're not quite as bad anymore. They don't start off on the roofs nearly as often. They do seem to like to go hide up there though. (meow)

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11802] Sat, 17 September 2005 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dextertt is currently offline dextertt

 
Messages:54
Registered:November 2000
Madd Mugsy,

"There's a tag in items.xml - VisionRangeBonus" Thanks for the tip there. I lost track of that discussion threat on the range a while back.

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Corporal
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11803] Sun, 18 September 2005 04:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
1. Expert, BR's 'good', Drop all

2. Sell all, delete all

3. Balance is good, the enemy is pretty tough on Expert and they use grenades, breaklights, snipers and flanking attacks.

4. Drop all. If I were playing without it on Expert I'd have a much harder time equipping a team properly early in the game.

5. Losing all APs when standing to throw a grenade and spotting an enemy.

6. Not sure yet.

7. If the breath bug, the tile redraw bug, and most of the CTD bugs are all fixed I can't really think of anything else right now.

8. Being able to throw a grenade for shorter ranges while crouching and prone. 3 ranges depending on stance.

Have friendly planted mines/boobytraps automatically placed with a blue flag but still triggerable by enemies.

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First Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11804] Sun, 18 September 2005 10:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Multiple grenade positions is next on my to do list as soon as we get finished with the crouching and prone LAW animations.

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Sergeant Major
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11805] Tue, 20 September 2005 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
w00t!

Quote:
Originally posted by Madd Mugsy:

They're not quite as bad anymore. They don't start off on the roofs nearly as often. They do seem to like to go hide up there though. (meow)
LOL @ Mugsy.

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First Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11806] Wed, 21 September 2005 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dextertt is currently offline dextertt

 
Messages:54
Registered:November 2000
Mugsy, and update

I change all armor vests VisionRangeBonus = 20 .
So far no discernable problems. firefights are a lot of fun now. you can see about half way across the map.

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Corporal
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11807] Wed, 21 September 2005 06:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank Ballew is currently offline Frank Ballew

 
Messages:23
Registered:September 2003
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
1. Expert, 1 above minimal, normal, sci-fi

2. Still trying to finish with 8/20, do use multiple IMP (love the idea of different even customizable colors) & will use alt-LMB

3. I think it is nasty right now, perfect. Roof ambushes & AI flanking have really changed the game.

4. Love the auto-fire options and the new AI

5. Can't figure how enemy can see me and my NO expert with UV can't see them.

6. Ditto what Quasimodo said a couple of options for squad formation movement in real time. This would be a) more realistic than all mercs miving into or as a clump and b) would really aid in tracking down that last remaining enemy in open terrain.

7. Already sent you my "paralyzed" merc bug. I have also encountered the invisible enemies and enemy trapped at the edge bug. Maybe some of these have been picked up in 9/14 version.

8. One thing that is small but useful can the canteens be combined like camo kits? & see 6. above.

Awesome, awesome effort to all involved.

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Private 1st Class
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11808] Wed, 21 September 2005 07:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Quote:

8. One thing that is small but useful can the canteens be combined like camo kits? & see 6. above.
In there since the first release Smile

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11809] Wed, 21 September 2005 16:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Expert is a lot more crazy since the last update. The battles are tougher but have better rewards. I've only captured Drassen, Chitzena and half of Cambria (+the NE, NW and Central SAMs; gotta have air cav to run a sensible war Smile )

The enemy AI is much better, I've been re-learning a lot of tactical lessons from my battles. Flanking, smoke and grenades are all getting a lot more use because the enemy is unforgiving and crafty. The number of enemy snipers in some battles is a little nuts but it makes the game a hell of a lot more interesting when you *have to* keep your head down and pay attention to cover areas.

My current game is as I stated above, I notice that the best gun BR is selling online is a mini-14 but I can get gl ammo and 7.62 NATO mags, that's kinda wierd. Do I have to buy guns from BR to get them to evolve? I haven't bought much since Diedranna's guys are much faster at delivering the weapons and they provide on-site live-fire training Very Happy .

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First Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11810] Wed, 21 September 2005 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
BR's inventory goes up as you progress through the game. The Ammo values and related gun values are probably out of whack just a little, which may explain why you have better ammo than guns. Also, because of all the guns, there are some smaller weapons that use the higher calibre ammo, so that might also be a factor.

On a completely different note, While I was testing the INI code during Militia battles on INSANE, I noticed a HUGE difference in Auto-fire. I think this is MUCH more balanced now Mugsy. I've never seen so much wasted ammo in all my time of playing JA2.

Keep in mind though, that the penalty is relative, when a burst is fired, 1-3 out of 6 shots will typically hit someone. With Auto-fire and approximately 10-15 shots, I was noticing 3-6 bullets hitting on average. So Auto-Fire did not lose it's advantage.

But this makes me wonder about burst... With a weapon capable of Auto-Fire, I felt myself reluctant to use Burst at all, same penalty, fewer shots, I thought to myself, this weapon doesn't even need Burst, I can't think of a single advantage to using it over Auto-Fire.

Thoughts, Comments? Any Advantages to Burst I don't know about, or Disadvantages to Auto-Fire that I don't know about?

(I'm not even thinking about removing it, just balancing it a little if it needs it).

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11811] Wed, 21 September 2005 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frank Ballew is currently offline Frank Ballew

 
Messages:23
Registered:September 2003
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
There is a way to move in formation?

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Private 1st Class
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11812] Wed, 21 September 2005 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
It's on my list of things to "look into". Lots of people want it, including me, but it all depends on time and difficulty.

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11813] Thu, 22 September 2005 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DurtyDan is currently offline DurtyDan

 
Messages:103
Registered:November 2001
Location: Oregon, USA
Quote:
Thoughts, Comments? Any Advantages to Burst I don't know about, or Disadvantages to Auto-Fire that I don't know about?
The advantage to burst is that the merc can only fire a specific number of rounds. In autofire with a machinegun, all available APs may be used to fire the complete magazine. I've nearly emptied an RPK that way without meaning to. Can't return to cover without any APs :armsfolded: .

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Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11814] Thu, 22 September 2005 02:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
Messages:437
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
many games have promised moving in formation and most have failed. if you can achieve this here that'll certainly be something you can brag around with :ok:

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Master Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11815] Thu, 22 September 2005 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
Should be relatively simple in theory, One Merc will be the "Leader" And he will have to be selected. Then there will have to be a key combination or something to set a flag for moving in formation. When you move the "Leader Merc" The other merc's Gridno's in relation to the leader's will have to be stored in an array, and recalculated at the same ratio to the new location. Then instead of giving one move order and a target gridNo, there would be up to 6 orders to move and 6 targeted gridnos.

The code is already there to move all 6 mercs at one time to a single GridNo, complete with pathing code and everything, it will even stop all 6 mercs if one of them is interrupted.

Keep in mind though, if this were to be implemented, mercs would still suffer from pathing issues like going through a choke-point. When you send all 6 mercs through a choke-point, the last few try to go the longway around because the path is blocked.

Also if buildings get in the way, Mercs would temporarily break formation to go around obstacles, but then would still head to the same previously computed destination GridNo.

I mean the code is ALL there to support this kind of thing, it's just a matter of taking the time to implement it and making sure that it doesn't break something else in the process. As well as working out the complex math involved in recalculating multiple target GridNo's.

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11816] Thu, 22 September 2005 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Quote:

Thoughts, Comments? Any Advantages to Burst I don't know about, or Disadvantages to Auto-Fire that I don't know about?
What if we made some guns burst-only and other guns autofire-only? And we could (very slightly)increase the chance of autofire wasting bullets, or the autofire to-hit penalty, on burst+autofire capable weapons.

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11817] Thu, 22 September 2005 05:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
one little concern from my side: i had an elite attack in the latest version, and they tended to waste most of their AP`s for missing their entire full auto spray on some of my merc or militia. in single shot mode, they were as lethal as always

is there a way of preventing the AI to go full auto against enemies on the roof or in places where accurate aiming would be better?

it seems to me, they don`t hit much if firing full auto on a target on the roof. maybe that was the roof-bug problem though...

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Sergeant Major
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11818] Thu, 22 September 2005 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Snap is currently offline Snap

 
Messages:286
Registered:September 2000
Location: USA (by way of the Old Wo...
Burst/autofire. From the realism point of view, most automatic guns don't even have a burst mode (newer H&K weapons being an exception). Moreover, the most common burst size is 3, which is not all that useful with current damage balance. I know that when I played JA2 "classic", I switched to 5-round burst weapons as soon as possible.

As far as game advantages of burst, I was thinking of making it faster, i.e. more bang for the AP, as it were. So, for instance, a 5-round burst could cost 3 or 4 APs, while full auto would cost 1 AP per round (5 APs for a 5-round burst). Problem is, we don't have that much choice here, so it would be difficult to distinguish different weapons, and even more difficult to do it at least somewhat realistically.

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Master Sergeant
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11819] Thu, 22 September 2005 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
I like the less accuracy per bullet, or cause another accuracy hit after 4 bullets for auto-fire.

So with either, you get the accuracy penalty after the first shot (except for G11's and other modified weapons with the fastburst flag)

Then, if you are using autofire, after the 4th bullet, accuracy takes another hit.

So for the weapons with a 3+ burst option, if that's all you want is a few shots, fine. otherwise, use full Auto, take the chance of using up all your ammo, and suffer a second accuracy penalty.

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11820] Thu, 22 September 2005 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
hmm yes

the problem is, that ja2 used to use "burst" fire to resemble full auto depending on AP and turns and stuff

now with full-auto added, what are you going to do with burst fire mode?

modern weapons usually have both, 3-shot burst and full auto, but most of the oder ja2 guns wouldn`t

if we go for realism, the burst option might suffer as most oder weapons don`t even have it

on the other hand, giving a 5-shot burst to a weapon is a big advantage over a 3 shot. somehow it becomes a bit weird... *confused*

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Sergeant Major
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11821] Thu, 22 September 2005 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaiden is currently offline Kaiden

 
Messages:504
Registered:September 2003
Playability and functionality over realism...

I wouldn't want to take burst out, I just want to give it it's own advantages, so that it doesn't become obsolete with the addition of auto-fire.

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11822] Thu, 22 September 2005 10:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
One other thing to note (unrelated to autofire discussion):

Quote:

The number of enemy snipers in some battles is a little nuts but it makes the game a hell of a lot more interesting when you *have to* keep your head down and pay attention to cover areas.
Enemy snipers don't just include guys with sniper rifles, but anybody with a scope (= anything with an aimbonus, so Sniper scopes, ACOG scopes and OICWs [w/built in scope] would all count). And sniper rifles should _always_ come with a scope.

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First Sergeant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11823] Thu, 22 September 2005 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Training (Autoweapon skill verses non) aside, isn't controllability dependent on its own laundry list of factors: size of cartridge, mechanism, ergonomics, line of recoil in relation with shoulder, etc... Burst fire modes/limiters seem to me at least, to be an optional component, independent of controllability in full auto. (Ok, I suppose there are examples of weapons families where later variants have limiter/burst options put in place if those in power decide full auto is simply too difficult to handle.)

Speaking as someone who not only is not a programmer, but has also never fired a firearm, might I suggest an independent

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Lieutenant

Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11824] Thu, 22 September 2005 12:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255 is currently offline Khor1255

 
Messages:1817
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Hate to keep on flogging this poor old horse but my main concern is that autofire be rebalanced to where it's not the best form of attack in every situation. This can be done by reducing the accuracy of full auto fire with bursts being somewhere in the middle of the accuracy penalty formula.
Of course I'd also like to be able to choose if a weapon is full auto, semi auto, burst fire or any combination of the three. A real cool thing (once you get the readied weapon formula down) would be to also offer single action as the slowest (when not already cocked or 'ready') but also most accurate of all fire modes.

But I really feel that autofire (while an excellent new feature that I'd hate to have to live without) needs to be fixed because it's just too easy to hit even moderately far away targets.
Wherever it fits with reality advantageous features should also have their drawbacks. Full auto fire is way less accurate than single shots. Also in reality this accuracy penalty varies greatly from weapon to weapon. Having this in the code would expand the dynamic range of weaponmods.

While I'm thinking about it I'd also like to ask whether you've coded variable loading speeds?

Thanx again for all the great work.

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Sergeant Major
Re: 1.13 - How do you play, and what do you like/Dislike[message #11825] Thu, 22 September 2005 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
gmonk

 
Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Controllability is a commonly documented feature of real firearms. Weight and barrel length in relation to cartridge size, operating mechanism and ejection method all combine to make the weapon move in a predictable way or to minimize the drift caused by recoil. That's what the burst penalty is supposed to simulate, I think.

Don't most select fire guns have only single and autofire settings? When I trained with automatic stuff we were taught various tricks to limit bursts to groups of 4-5 rounds (squad support weapon and SMG) Maybe when they designed this game they figured that they could represent that sort of training by allowing a certain number of shots per burst as opposed to burst representing the actual setting?

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First Sergeant
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