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Big Maps Project[message #152552] Fri, 10 August 2007 12:41 Go to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Hi all

The goal of the project is to increase the tactical map size. For now the biggest map can have 160x160 tiles , after the project is completed the map size can be really big (about 46340x46340 tiles).

An alpha exe is now available for testing here: http://81.169.133.124/~lalien/release/New_exes/ (BM in index). The savegame format is not compatible, you'll have to start a new game.



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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #152557] Fri, 10 August 2007 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax is currently offline Slax

 
Messages:1411
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Hahaha, you could model a whole country on a 46340x46340 map Very Happy

I'll definitely be trying this out.

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Sergeant Major
Re: Big Maps Project[message #152558] Fri, 10 August 2007 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Slax
Hahaha, you could model a whole country on a 46340x46340 map Very Happy

That would be 289 x 289 of the old 160*160-tile maps, surely that would be enough to put the whole of Arulco into such a big map Wink

But mortars could become much more interesting Wink

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First Sergeant

Re: Big Maps Project[message #152562] Fri, 10 August 2007 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
Messages:437
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
Everything could become much mroe interesting .... except hunting down the remaining soldiers that are fleeing Very Happy

So with this we'd get all kind of map sizes right? SO biggest maps would be used for town sectors, then the importance of the sector will decide on how big the map should be ... or will all the map have to be the same size?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Big Maps Project[message #152565] Fri, 10 August 2007 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sleepyfox is currently offline Sleepyfox

 
Messages:50
Registered:March 2003
Location: Belgium
Majek
Everything could become much mroe interesting .... except hunting down the remaining soldiers that are fleeing Very Happy


Yes without a system which can locate even approximatively the last few soldiers, it can be really boring.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 August 2007 16:08] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Big Maps Project[message #152566] Fri, 10 August 2007 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
They /should/ be about the same size if the are next to each other, because otherwise there would be logical errors that would cause the player to shake his head in disbelief.

In other words, maps of different sizes would lead to gaps and/or overlaps on the worldmap, which is not good.

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First Sergeant

Re: Big Maps Project[message #152570] Fri, 10 August 2007 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Majek
will all the map have to be the same size?


No, variable map size will be possible.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #152571] Fri, 10 August 2007 14:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Starwalker
They /should/ be about the same size if the are next to each other, because otherwise there would be logical errors that would cause the player to shake his head in disbelief.

In other words, maps of different sizes would lead to gaps and/or overlaps on the worldmap, which is not good.


The world map has nothing to do with the tactical map size, so there will not be any technical problems. And the size of the tactical map should not be taken as a real sector size, much more as "mission area" or "most important area" in the sector.

For now we have sector size of 160x160 meters, this means that whole Arulco is 2560*2560 meters (2,5km) big. After the change we'll have 46340x46340 per sector (46km) and the possible Arulco size of 741*741km.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #152573] Fri, 10 August 2007 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1834
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
i could imagine such huge maps would require broader tileset selections as otherwise maps might become repetitive... there has been a request around to get rid of tileset alltogether and use any tile in any map. I could imagine that this request would fit your project somehow

this is sounding extremely exciting. looking forward to how this devlelops

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Sergeant Major
Re: Big Maps Project[message #152584] Fri, 10 August 2007 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking is currently offline SpaceViking

 
Messages:751
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
I concur about the worldmap versus tactical map size. It takes less than a minute game time to cross a tactical map but over an hour to get between outdoorsy sectors and 5 minutes for city sectors.

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First Sergeant

Re: Big Maps Project[message #152808] Sun, 12 August 2007 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
incidentally, is there any bigger maps done somewhere?

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Big Maps Project[message #152812] Sun, 12 August 2007 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1159
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
Kermi
incidentally, is there any bigger maps done somewhere?



Not yet that I am aware. This was just made available so there could be. So why don't make us one? Wink

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Sergeant Major

Re: Big Maps Project[message #152815] Sun, 12 August 2007 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
weeell..... the norm map editor allows making ridiculous sized maps? Smile

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Big Maps Project[message #152818] Sun, 12 August 2007 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
moki is currently offline moki

 
Messages:56
Registered:July 2007
Location: Wismar, Germany
As soon as there's a good editor for big maps available (preferably an update to the current standard editor), I'll start mapping... already have some great ideas for bigger maps, like better fortifications and if irregular maps are supported also long/narrow maps (maybe 80*1000 for that nice arcade-style Wink )

So much new stuff to test here... the Linux build, the big maps build, the latest from SVN... has anyone seen my coffee machine lately? Very Happy

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Corporal
Re: Big Maps Project[message #152833] Sun, 12 August 2007 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tbird94lx is currently offline tbird94lx

 
Messages:682
Registered:April 2002
Location: ohhhhhh canada
i took it... :compcuppa: :cuppa: :redracer:

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First Sergeant

Re: Big Maps Project[message #153955] Tue, 21 August 2007 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Testers needed!!!

The most bugs in big maps exe are fixed and it has all bug fixes from the main branch.
Please test it and report.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #153957] Tue, 21 August 2007 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wanne (aka RoWa21) is currently offline wanne (aka RoWa21)

 
Messages:1961
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@lalienxx:
- How does the radarmap and the overview map work with the big maps???
- Do you have any new big maps for download and testing?

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Sergeant Major

Re: Big Maps Project[message #153960] Tue, 21 August 2007 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
RoWa21
@lalienxx:
- How does the radarmap and the overview map work with the big maps???

Just like in the current main version.


RoWa21
@lalienxx:
- Do you have any new big maps for download and testing?

No, we need to change the editor first. For now we need to test if everything works with old maps.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #153998] Wed, 22 August 2007 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gincan is currently offline Gincan

 
Messages:15
Registered:August 2005
I will test, BTW which EXE should I use?

1235BM or
1239

I ask because I assume BM stands for big map

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Private
Re: Big Maps Project[message #153999] Wed, 22 August 2007 00:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
Messages:605
Registered:March 2007
With such a huge increase in map size, don't we need to increase the number of soldiers that can occupy a map at one time? 20 (or so) might be fine in 160sq meters but it's not much if we're on a 1600sq meter map (let alone a 46340sq meter map). But, of course, if we increase the max number of soldiers that can be on the map at one time, don't we then cause speed issues?

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First Sergeant
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154086] Wed, 22 August 2007 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Fume
I will test, BTW which EXE should I use?

1235BM or
1239

I ask because I assume BM stands for big map


Take the exe with BM in index.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #154088] Wed, 22 August 2007 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
ChrisL
With such a huge increase in map size, don't we need to increase the number of soldiers that can occupy a map at one time? 20 (or so) might be fine in 160sq meters but it's not much if we're on a 1600sq meter map (let alone a 46340sq meter map). But, of course, if we increase the max number of soldiers that can be on the map at one time, don't we then cause speed issues?


I've already increased number of possible persons on map from INT8 to INT16. Tough there is more work to do like changing definition of NOBODY, increasing max number of soldiers and changing merc/civilian/npc/enemy indexes.

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Re: Big Maps Project[message #154124] Wed, 22 August 2007 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
I'll volunteer for testing Very Happy

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Re: Big Maps Project[message #154146] Wed, 22 August 2007 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Kermi
I'll volunteer for testing Very Happy

Get an exe and start working. Wink

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #154157] Wed, 22 August 2007 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
Roight.. Already got one.. but so for now, just test if the thing works on current maps?

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Re: Big Maps Project[message #154158] Wed, 22 August 2007 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Kermi
Roight.. Already got one.. but so for now, just test if the thing works on current maps?


Yes, we don't have bigger ones yet.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #154205] Thu, 23 August 2007 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obscuritan is currently offline Obscuritan

 
Messages:9
Registered:May 2007
This is a really cool idea. I'd love to see all the city squares expanded to maybe 240x240, while the less important ones like just random swamp are scaled down to maybe 120x120 or 100x100. I find there's a lot of tedium in slowly sneaking across generic forest when what i really want to do is finish my battle quickly. city maps being bigger would allow mappers to make the cities look less like ghost towns and more like they should be, bigger and more populous.

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Private
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154307] Thu, 23 August 2007 23:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

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Re: Big Maps Project[message #154308] Thu, 23 August 2007 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
oh, and also apparently savegames get corrupted.. Just found out after getting pissed off and trying to reload before the battle.. alt+l gives me "failed to load game". Anyone i should send this one to be examined?

edit: well.. the game kicked me to the main menu, clicked the "continue saved game" (or summat) button and loaded the same quicksave. loaded like a charm. Someone please tell me wtf is going on in here..

[Updated on: Thu, 23 August 2007 23:56] by Moderator

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154326] Fri, 24 August 2007 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
Messages:437
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<

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Master Sergeant
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154342] Fri, 24 August 2007 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Majek
Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<


Can you try it on "normal" exe (before 1239 and current one) and look if this behaviour remains?
It looks like the changes on aiming system have broken something.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #154369] Fri, 24 August 2007 14:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
Majek
Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<


So, your rationale is that either you can't shoot what you see at long ranges (i've had visual upto 58 squares), or then you can't hit anything at all? One of the less rational statements i've heard in a while Very Happy

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154370] Fri, 24 August 2007 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
lalienxx
Majek
Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<


Can you try it on "normal" exe (before 1239 and current one) and look if this behaviour remains?
It looks like the changes on aiming system have broken something.


I'll give it a go.

edit: 1235BM seems to work fine.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 August 2007 15:17] by Moderator

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154371] Fri, 24 August 2007 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Kermi
Majek
Kermi
Dunno if it's just me, but i'm using the last BM build i found, 1250, and for some reason or another, my mercs can't hit shit. I mean.. i've got Hitman with 89 MRK four or five squares away, aiming with .50 Beowulf with ACOG to the torso, and misses.. Reload after being killed, taking sidearm (fiveseven), same 4-5 squares, shoots four rounds, all miss. I just find that very irritating..

That's what you get, when "people" demand the 50tiles max range range to be "fixed" <_<


So, your rationale is that either you can't shoot what you see at long ranges (i've had visual upto 58 squares), or then you can't hit anything at all? One of the less rational statements i've heard in a while Very Happy


People it's a bug and it will be fixed soon. Please don't start flame war here.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #154373] Fri, 24 August 2007 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek is currently offline Majek

 
Messages:437
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
Kermi
So, your rationale is that either you can't shoot what you see at long ranges (i've had visual upto 58 squares), or then you can't hit anything at all? One of the less rational statements i've heard in a while Very Happy

I'm saying that forcing them to "fix" a limiation will always break things.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154454] Sat, 25 August 2007 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obscuritan is currently offline Obscuritan

 
Messages:9
Registered:May 2007
I was thinking about the concept of putting the entire map of Arulco into a single tactical map, and had an idea: Perhaps a JA2: Arcade Mode mod? You start with a lot of cash, choose your mercs and their loadouts before entering the map (perhaps by having a matrix-style "Construct" level, where you get everyone prepared for a long haul), and enter from omerta. You are after that point unable to compress time, so you must keep your wits (and a whole lot of regen boosts) about you, as you journey down to Meduna and take out Deidranna in a single haul.

I'm not even remotely sure how possible that is, but it would be an interesting take on the normally very drawn-out games i play, where instead of sitting around training militia you'd have to use the single group of mercs and go all the way through in one go.

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Private
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154457] Sat, 25 August 2007 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wanne (aka RoWa21) is currently offline wanne (aka RoWa21)

 
Messages:1961
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@obscuritan: That is a very good idea.

After the bigmap project is done, we could add a new game style mode to the start screen. So the whole game just uses the tactical screen from beginning to end, except for the merc choosing at the beginning of the game...

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Sergeant Major

Re: Big Maps Project[message #154471] Sat, 25 August 2007 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lalienxx is currently offline lalienxx

 
Messages:86
Registered:February 2006
Obscuritan
I was thinking about the concept of putting the entire map of Arulco into a single tactical map, and had an idea: Perhaps a JA2: Arcade Mode mod? You start with a lot of cash, choose your mercs and their loadouts before entering the map (perhaps by having a matrix-style "Construct" level, where you get everyone prepared for a long haul), and enter from omerta. You are after that point unable to compress time, so you must keep your wits (and a whole lot of regen boosts) about you, as you journey down to Meduna and take out Deidranna in a single haul.

I'm not even remotely sure how possible that is, but it would be an interesting take on the normally very drawn-out games i play, where instead of sitting around training militia you'd have to use the single group of mercs and go all the way through in one go.


I don't think that a very big map will be fast enough to play.

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Big Maps Project[message #154488] Sun, 26 August 2007 09:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermi is currently offline Kermi

 
Messages:81
Registered:October 2002
Heh. nice idea. Though if you'd choose to use some rarer guns, you'd need a truck to carry all the ammo Very Happy

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Big Maps Project[message #154515] Sun, 26 August 2007 18:10 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
redgun

 
Messages:190
Registered:March 2007
Location: Austria
i really like that. if the mapsize is used to full extend, I guess everything will slow down alot because the maps are about 175.000 times bigger. Sad

however if the map are 3000x3000 they are only 750 times bigger which should be do-able with a high-end PC. the longest ranged weapon in the game sofar is the M224-mortar with a range of 3500m.
so if an editor to make such large maps is available, one could correct the range values of the weapons to realistic values.
the best thing about it is that a lot of tactics become useable that can't be done in 110x110 sectors.

thanks alot for this lalienxx and whoever else has done this, I've ranted about mapsize for long time and now everything will be fine.

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Staff Sergeant
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