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Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance: Unfinished Business » Tools and Guides Repository (Archive) » Improving Original JA2 graphics
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179332] Fri, 28 March 2008 18:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1821
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
I agree with that assessment to a point. However, the inspiration for modding comes from an idea the modder wants to see happen. If Lisac is willing to do the coding and some graphics guys are willing to do the sprites who are we to say it does not warrent so much attention?

I agree that a simulated 3d environment (NOT A 3D ENGINE BUT THINGS LIKE TRENCHES) is a more interesting idea for gameplay and I believe a Polish coder has made some progress here. I also agree that starting small is the only way this could possibly get done.

Perhaps a simple armour overlay could be tried to show when a sprite was wearing a helmet, vest, etc. Then we could elaborate once the bugs were worked out of this. But I like the overall idea and think it would add a lot to some mods.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179333] Fri, 28 March 2008 18:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
if you look at ja2's real-existing sprites.

how would you portray the difference between a guardian and a spectra vest on a female or normal merc? i mean on the big guy, i could see it, but on the small bodytypes, let alone civilians, i see only 3 things:

like they are now. A thick thing to portary armour. a coat.

these are the 3 distinct shapes possible for the torso

now the head: headgear or not.

2 options. try to make a different sprite for different helmets or even helmets and caps or boonie hats... with 4-8 pixels, there is no much you can do

legs... well... uhmmm...



thinkable are weapon classes. a sniper rifle vs. submachinegun, there are visible differences.

but armour is not of much use. i made a suggestion one time that camouflage (from clothing) should only apply to the bodypart where an item that gives the camo is worn.

if we now expand to 255 camouflage patterns, we gain a lot more than what we can with the 4-8 pixels for headgear that have to be applied in some way to tens of thousands of pictures.


if we had this feature (camo only to the bodyparts effectvily covered by it), i could alsready visually portray the biggest number of vanilla ja2's armours.

and i think the workload for coders to add a big number of exceptions for the different parts of the body would be MUCH less than for drawing armour onto every sprite. (with or without the background sprite... the layer must still be drawn)


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179346] Fri, 28 March 2008 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Da_Fazha

 
Messages:18
Registered:March 2008
Location: USA
:wave:Hello all!

I have 3 questions: :headscratch:

1. Are you guys including the NIV mod in your new pictures? :exactly:
2. Is it possible to use paint (default windows program) to change these sprites? :computer3:
3. I forgot my third question, but I'm sure it will come to me... :placard:
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179347] Fri, 28 March 2008 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
1. NIV is part of 1.13 now and doesn't affect animations anyway.

2. Yes if you are very skilled with it like Dr-D.

3. .....


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179350] Fri, 28 March 2008 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Da_Fazha

 
Messages:18
Registered:March 2008
Location: USA
Kk Thnx! I will try some of this stuff if I get a chance later. :bluecool:
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179353] Fri, 28 March 2008 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:766
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Kaerar
1. NIV is part of 1.13 now and doesn't affect animations anyway.

I believe he was asking about modeling sprite layers to actually show LBE...


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179355] Fri, 28 March 2008 20:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
If thats the case then yes it would show, but its gonna be like a pixel here and there in the scheme of things. Going on current sprites though not even armour is shown. Hence I didn't remember LBE :S


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179371] Fri, 28 March 2008 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Da_Fazha

 
Messages:18
Registered:March 2008
Location: USA
Star walker is mostly right, I would like to know that but my primary reason was to see if you are making sprites to include all the different variations in the NIV as well as the original inventory, ie, LBE, new weapon shapes, etc.

I'm probably outta my league here, so some of my questions might seem wierd, or odd. Sorry bout that, but its not like I'm gonna get to it yet anyway so I might as well learn what I can, when I can.

Again thanks for all the help you guys have given!
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179400] Sat, 29 March 2008 05:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
If we can show armour there is no reason we can't show LBE, but there would be coding needed before either can work. The weapons are first on the agenda Wink


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179405] Sat, 29 March 2008 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1821
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
If we could have new colours to portray armour I don't see a problem. Also, a pixel here and a pixel there (extending the silhouette) could go a long way toward this portrayal.

I find Dr. D's gun renderings at sprite size hard to believe. But if he really was working with the same number of pixels we get for sprite sized weapons armour would be a piece of cake.

I don't see the problem.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179407] Sat, 29 March 2008 07:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Its not the sprites being the problem. The coding is there to change the guns on cue but it isn't for armour and LBE. I agree that it would be great if Lisac and Dr-D could work on this together to update the sprites, but we will probably need 4-5 people helping them too. If a coder or two could work on adding calls to change armour and LBE gear, we can add almost whatever we wanted. Hell maybe even a set of pliers and a gun lying on the ground while someone repairs!!


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179410] Sat, 29 March 2008 09:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arethusa

 
Messages:26
Registered:August 2006
Location: Connecticut

Augh. By the time you finish this, computers will have 3d holographic displays.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179422] Sat, 29 March 2008 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:766
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Arethusa
Augh. By the time you finish this, computers will have 3d holographic displays.

Well, that does not matter, as JA2 1.13 will still rule over all of the official JA2 successors! Wink


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179438] Sat, 29 March 2008 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:441
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
I. PNGs
I think the main problem with png images will be the blitting. If i have seen it correctly,
then almost every blitting function works on 'ETRLEObject's (these are the compressed .STI
subimages). That is you cannot just push an arbitrary block of data (unpacked image data) into
the function and expect it to work. You would either have to convert pngs into ETRLEObjects
(not really an option) or you would have to change the blitting functions, which should not be
thaaaaaaaat big of a problem, as the STI/ETRLE compression is by all means trivial. The actual
problem is the inline assembler code.

Another point is transparency. Can someone give me a specific example of what you would do with
a 50% transparent image. I could think of some examples myself, but just want to know what others
are expecting.

II. 2D vs. 3D
There is this discussion about a 3D engine and as I see it, there were mostly requests for an
engine and there was almost noone who actually knows how a 3D engine works or how Vertex processing or
Fragment processing works or how GPU shaders work (I may be wrong in that point). This knowledge
would be really helpful to program an engine or even to use it, as it might help to find where
the problem lies, if something is not going as expected. If there is noone who could work on it
(or not enough people), then the 3D engine will stay a dream for a very long time. Well, unless you
take the JA3 or JAZZ: Hired Guns or a similar engine. But then again, you don't have access to the
source code of these engines and thus the possible modifications would be quite limited.

And by the way, what's wrong with 2D?

III. My Engine
The main ideas of my engine are these.
- replace the current rendering engine as a combination would be impossible (directx -> opengl)
- definition of all elements with local coordinates -> no more global '#define'-crap
- simple setup of all graphical elements
- extensible and replaceable graphical elements

As the topic of this thread are layered sprites, let me use them as an example. You would have
two graphical objects that can render normal sprites and layered sprites. Then you could just replace
old objects with new ones, image by image and animation by animation. You would get a funny mixture
of rendering results in the first place, but at least you have something. You replace the most common
animation first and the least common animations last. Thus the mentioned 'problem' would gradually
go away.

Then there is the objection of why doing the layered sprites stuff anyway if they are going to change
only a couple of pixels on a given object. That is true, but it also doesn't have to stay this way.
We could use larger objects (higher resolution), and i am also thinking about zooming in and out
of the scene, you know, supreme commander style. That would make the visibility problem a lesser problem.


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179445] Sat, 29 March 2008 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Transparency to allow anti-aliasing for the edges of guns (less hard edged jaggies) mainly. But it could also be put to use in the interface for transition effects and thing like superimposing the inventories over the top of the rest of the GUI for instance.

To change a couple of pixels is pretty much all us gfx boys do! There is only a couple of pixels difference between bad and great, but mainly its for the immersion in the game. If your IMP picks up a G11 and the image on your character is an M16, it kinda removes that immersion. So if you have layered sprites and a good 3D engine (or a pseudo 3D plugin for PS allowing 2D to be rotated in 3D) then you can change the sprites very quickly.



As for your engine I think its a great idea. Can you link in more realistic maps and more detailed characters? Will you use 3D and limit it to the 2D iso viewpoint? That may help for creating new guns and characters. Someone mentioned disliking block faced characters from 3D, but with games like CoD4 and GRAW2 they seem to have faces done really well so I don't think that is an issue any more.

If you could do the Supreme Commander zoom you would be classed in the realm of human gods! Please do that would shut the CQB vs Sniper battles up Smile


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179459] Sat, 29 March 2008 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arethusa

 
Messages:26
Registered:August 2006
Location: Connecticut

BirdFlu
And by the way, what's wrong with 2D?

The biggest problem is extensibility. If I want to make a new gun and add it to the game, it's pretty trivial if it's 3D. I make a model, uvmap it, and skin it. A bit of quick coding for stats following established guns already ingame, and I'm almost there. If I'm feeling exceptionally ambitious, I can make a few animation sets that will be blended into existing animations (ie I'm animating at most parts of the upper body). That's it. With 2D, the process is an excruciating geometric hell of rendering every possible combination by hand.

There are plenty of other problems. It's hard to update. Visibility is bad, especially with the standard set by games like Silent Storm, which may have been far from perfect, but it did do a very good job with a number of things, including its use of 3D. Everything else you said I more or less agree with. I just think people should take a 3D engine more seriously and balance that against a consideration of the enormous disadvantages 2D represents. There's a reason no one uses it anymore.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179470] Sat, 29 March 2008 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
the reason probably is development ease and speed, (costs) and customer expectations. For many games, it might not even be the looks themselves (3d often looks poor too)

for the characters alone, 3d might be an option. But then, there should be a way to keep the advantages of isometric games, especially the very large maps

in 3d, you either have tiny ranges like in silent storm. i think this is a no-no

or, you have characters at a couple of meters distance look tiny. No-no as well.

so probably the best thing would be if only the characters themselves be a 3d model but with fixed sizes so we'd get the advantages of both systems, iso and 3d.

some hybrid kind of thing if just ja2's animation system is replaced by 3d. But then, layered sprites might have a similar effect, but be more work art-design wise, while the 3d character engine might cause more coding effort.

but that's just guessing. can't judge these things myself.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179471] Sat, 29 March 2008 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Have you read what Birdflu said earlier about his engine? He is thinking of implementing a Supreme Commander style of zoom interface. That I believe would solve all the range issues.


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179472] Sat, 29 March 2008 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1836
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
i doubt it. many players hate having to zoom in and rotate cameras and all that crap, that's why they play ISO games.

i personally would want the game perfectly playable without any zoom. Zoom only for showing some details (whatever nature they might be...) to give an additional bonus. But the important design decisions must be taken before the zoom feature comes into play, otherwise you get the same mess many modern games have with their cameras.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179473] Sat, 29 March 2008 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arethusa

 
Messages:26
Registered:August 2006
Location: Connecticut

Kaerar
Have you read what Birdflu said earlier about his engine? He is thinking of implementing a Supreme Commander style of zoom interface. That I believe would solve all the range issues.

That is impossible with 2D. I imagine he was talking about something else.

the scorpion
i doubt it. many players hate having to zoom in and rotate cameras and all that crap, that's why they play ISO games.

i personally would want the game perfectly playable without any zoom. Zoom only for showing some details (whatever nature they might be...) to give an additional bonus. But the important design decisions must be taken before the zoom feature comes into play, otherwise you get the same mess many modern games have with their cameras.

No one complained about Silent Storm's camera, which pretty quite good. It's not really that big of a deal.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #179482] Sat, 29 March 2008 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
concerning useable and powerful 3D engines (which is not the topic of this thread anyways) maybe checking out the open source freespace 2 engine could prove worthwihle?

http://www.hard-light.net/

http://scp.indiegames.us/news.php

it

☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179505] Sun, 30 March 2008 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:441
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
some thoughts and questions about the 3D engine

1. considering graphics ONLY, what would or should be the difference to, let's say, Brigade E5?

2. what should be the minimum requirements for a possible 3D engine?

3. should the actual game (mapwise) be in 3D or just a subset of it or should it be a whole new mapset?
-> if it is the whole game, then it can't be fully released until ALL maps are converted

4. if there is a 3D engine, then fixing the camera for isometric view is quite simple. It is actually
much simpler than creating an interface for arbitrary viewing directions.

5. don't underestimate the memory requirements for large 3D environments, especially as memory on
graphics board is quite limited (alse see point 2). In 2D you just have a bunch of textures, but
in 3D you have at least the same amount of textures and you also have a lot of geometry data.

6. If you go the 3D way, then you have to convert almost every graphical element (maps, weapons, animations)
to its 3D counterparts. If you stay in 2D you could reuse old stuff and upgrade or replace it gradually.
I would say, that the gradual approach is more motivating for the creators (i.e. US) as you see
that development is moving forward (slowly, but usable all the time) in contrast to the "leap"-approach,
where you have only 20% of the work done and still have to do 80% until you can call it remotely usable.

7. A 3D engine will probaly require a modified or even a new physics engine. Don't know how much work
this would require.

8. I would say a combination of "2D-Background" with 3D foreground elements (weapons, mercs, etc.) is an idea worth
thinking about. I mean we have limited resources and using a simpler approach would probably be more fruitful.

---------------------------
Quote:

Quote:
Have you read what Birdflu said earlier about his engine? He is thinking of implementing a Supreme Commander style of zoom interface. That
I believe would solve all the range issues.

That is impossible with 2D. I imagine he was talking about something else.
Why would that be impossible? You have a bunch of texture that you render on a bunch of quads. Zooming in and out
would require some scaling of the quads and use of a mipmapping-mechanism for the textures (so it doesn't look like shit).
Are we talking about the same thing?

Quote:

but then, there would still be the issue with the very limited and outdated JA2 2D engine and especially the very limited color palettes.
it

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179510] Sun, 30 March 2008 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arethusa

 
Messages:26
Registered:August 2006
Location: Connecticut

BirdFlu
Are we talking about the same thing?

I don't think so. I think you're talking about the ability to switch between tactical and global view, then? Not impossible in 2D (and an exceptionally crude form of this exists in JA2 already), but not very useful, I think, without a much better (3D) engine and graphics implementation.

Anyway, if this is seriously possible and worth discussing, I think we should at some point soon start a new thread specifically for this. Somewhat more importantly, as I don't know this community very well, are there people who knows graphics programming? To call this ambitious is an understatement, and it requires people who know this stuff and have the time to dedicate to it.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179515] Sun, 30 March 2008 06:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Already did Here

As to the zooming have you played Supreme Commander? I love the zoom ability in that, it goes a little too far out but its a step in the right direction. No need to constantly baby the minimap any more.

Lets continue 3D discussions in the link above.

Back to sprites. I would be happy to see the old ones updated along Lisac's ideas, hell that can go on and be added at the same time as work on Birdflu's or a full 3D engine.


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179520] Sun, 30 March 2008 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arethusa

 
Messages:26
Registered:August 2006
Location: Connecticut

Given the limited number of people here, honestly, one of the two projects should be decided on. People who can do the kind of sprite and 3D work necessary for working on lisac's 2D revision can do content creation work for a 3D update, and there's some overlap in the other direction. If we had more people, it might be another matter, but trying to do just one of these is gargantuan enough; both at the same time is pretty much suicidal.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179537] Sun, 30 March 2008 15:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:441
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Another problem i forgot to mention before are the comments from other users.

- If we stay in 2D, then it will be "so old-school", "so last century|millenium", "not up-to-date", etc.

- And if we go into a 3D world, then we will have "mediocre graphics", "why don't you use XYZ", and "ABC did it better anyway"

These are built-in frustrating moments. It has to be taken seriously or this project will die faster as it came up.

And i agree, we should concentrate on only one project.

Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #179542] Sun, 30 March 2008 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lt.Havoc

 
Messages:34
Registered:April 2006
Location: Germany

Well, I think that any graphic improvment, even if its just 3d Medicore graphics will still look better then JA2
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179557] Sun, 30 March 2008 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arethusa

 
Messages:26
Registered:August 2006
Location: Connecticut

If we really are only 4 months from JA3, I don't think either of these is really worth pursuing unless that game is expected to not be moddable at all.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179577] Mon, 31 March 2008 01:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Berserk00644

 
Messages:8
Registered:March 2008
just my 2 cents but has anyone tried Myth II's engine it uses 3d maps with 2d sprites for units
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #179581] Mon, 31 March 2008 01:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Berserk00644
just my 2 cents but has anyone tried Myth II's engine it uses 3d maps with 2d sprites for units


so does the total war engine. but that

☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179582] Mon, 31 March 2008 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:441
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Quote:
If we really are only 4 months from JA3, I don't think either of these is really worth pursuing unless that game is expected to not be moddable at all.

So, am i seeing this right. When JA3 comes out and they don't screw it up and the engine is halfway moddable,
then development of 1.13 will just shut down (completely)? And does that mean that all projects, that are in development right now, basically futile?

[Updated on: Mon, 31 March 2008 02:10] by Moderator


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179584] Mon, 31 March 2008 03:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
No I don't think JA3 will hold a candle to JA2. Its going to be different so there is really gonna be no comparison. We should look at them as separate games wit different design concepts (Don't think any of the Sirtech crew are being used at all).

1.13 on the current JA2 platform will still be played by most people here on the forums as a lot of them had a say in what happened during the development. It won't stop me playing JA2 I know that much Wink


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179589] Mon, 31 March 2008 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arethusa

 
Messages:26
Registered:August 2006
Location: Connecticut

If JA3 is moddable, why not just move 1.13's conceptual advances over? JA3 should at least provide a much more robust engine and amount of content to work with.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179591] Mon, 31 March 2008 04:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
That is the hope. It uses the Silent Storm Engine though which while designed for the right reasons is about as bad as JA2 initially was to modify. I remember the hacks we had to do to get stuff to work! I hope its more moddable but there is no guarantee, so why not continue working on something we know is moddable and we have the source to, rather than worrying about a game that isn't released yet.

We can also translate what has been done over to other engines given the time and people. Its all a matter of where we want to go with the project, if we ever really start instead of gassing about it Wink


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179628] Mon, 31 March 2008 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lisac

 
Messages:92
Registered:July 2006
Location: Austria
Nice to see there are people interested in seeing this finished. I really don't have time to go into every aspect of the previous posts, so I'll just leave an interesting link for all of us:

http://tionline.ru/

And a screen:

http://tionline.ru/i/screen1.jpg

This is how the game could look like after the face-lift. Is it worth it? Depends on it how much you like your JA2 copy...

And I'd definitely go with the existing 2D source code (which even might be upgraded to a certain level, using 3D objects on a 2D background, OpenGL - thanks goes to BirdFlu) rather than with a or half-(or non-)moddable game for which you'll have to crack the hard-coded pieces of the executable in order to achieve the simplest thing in game (yes, I'm talking about the upcoming JA3).

Zoom is a nice idea, but not the imperative. Original system with two maps (strategic, tactical) worked perfectly - no repair needed.

I'll be around, keep jabbering Smile
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179629] Mon, 31 March 2008 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2041
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
That LoD would be perfect. The zoom I would be in favour of for maps that allow decent sizing. So you can zoom out to a max level for Sniping and zoom in for CQB. More engaging I think.

Can multiple above ground buildings work?


That game also looks like "Worms" with humans instead!


Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #179635] Mon, 31 March 2008 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lt.Havoc

 
Messages:34
Registered:April 2006
Location: Germany

Now, that screen looks impressive. What kind of engine is that? Fallout? You really think its possible to get JA2 to look THIS good?`
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179652] Mon, 31 March 2008 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1821
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
That does look cool but it would require quite a bit more than just sprites. In fact the sprites themselves look cartoonish compared to the scenery. Those brightly coloured vests stand out like a sore thumb.

I don't see anything like this getting done for at least 5 years. But it would be nice to be wrong here.
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics – Sprite[message #179656] Mon, 31 March 2008 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
@ lisac: mate, if you can really make JA2 look like THIS, including real 3D characters, i

[Updated on: Tue, 01 April 2008 00:00] by Moderator


☆★GL★☆
Re: Improving Original JA2 graphics [message #179664] Mon, 31 March 2008 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
KeldorKatarn

 
Messages:37
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany
Have you considered the FIFE engine for this?

http://wiki.fifengine.de/images/b/b4/2007.2.007.jpg

http://www.fifengine.de
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