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Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230921] Wed, 12 August 2009 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Sam_Hotte
Would it be possible to make camo kits attachable to a ghillie armor to accomplish that? (thus nobody would not need to draw new pictures)


Drawing those pics is probably the minor problem. And using camo kits would probably not work anyways, it had been possible to attach camo kits to field ops and recon vests and they didn't provide camo bonus to the vest (and besides it would be pretty senseless...).



Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230922] Wed, 12 August 2009 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Sam_Hotte
Man, this guy is fast working! Smile thumbs up!


:type:

Had quite some time this morning due to some noisy carpenters working on our shared flat's attic. But I also had only 4 hours of sleep... so my working motivation has reached low levels right now. :compcuppa:


Guess I just need more coffee... and I'm again running out of cigarettes. *yikes* seems I have to leave the house soon (and I also have to go to work for two hours later on...). Might get some more work done on the mod later today.



Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230923] Wed, 12 August 2009 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Quote:
I slept some hours over that suggestion and find it quite reasonable. I think the best approach would be the following:
I will make regular armour and C-18 armour only repairable with C-18.
C-20 armour, KAZAK, EOD and Dragonskin must be repaired with C-20 (and maybe those Dragonskins with uniforms attached will convert back to normal Dragonskin when repaired, the C-20 basically destroys the uniform).

To create C-18 and C-20 armour, you'll need armour upgrade kits (like field ops conversion kit). This would be necessary in order not to screw up merges (otherwise you couldn't repair regular armour at all).

Some armours will of course be treated differently (like Flak Vests, Uniforms and Leather Jackets, which can be repaired just as normal and can easily be treated with a small tube of C-18//C-20)


nice work dude! but be sure to change the description texts of C18/C20 accordingly to point out their armor repair ability.

other than that, i think this feature is a nice additional balancing factor for armors and the treated ones especially.

just one more thing: do not make Dragonskin treatable or repairable. Dragonskin by definition is a special, new armor that doesn

[Updated on: Wed, 12 August 2009 15:27] by Moderator


☆★GL★☆
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230925] Wed, 12 August 2009 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Mauser

nice work dude! but be sure to change the description texts of C18/C20 accordingly to point out their armor repair ability.


by now you should now me better Wink Already changed the description texts.

Mauser
other than that, i think this feature is a nice additional balancing factor for armors and the treated ones especially.

just one more thing: do not make Dragonskin treatable or repairable. Dragonskin by definition is a special, new armor that doesn

[Updated on: Wed, 12 August 2009 15:28] by Moderator



Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230928] Wed, 12 August 2009 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1995
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
smeagol
And using camo kits would probably not work anyways, it had been possible to attach camo kits to field ops and recon vests and they didn't provide camo bonus to the vest

Oops. I forgot about that. You're right, this cannot work.

[Updated on: Wed, 12 August 2009 15:37] by Moderator

Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230931] Wed, 12 August 2009 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Waldtroll
My intention was that a ghillie suit could be modified with plants and stuff of the terrain, so it would be more flexible when other "simple" camouflage.
However as I tested it a combined camo dosn't seem to work good.

Well I had another Idea which may be interesting.
1. The Ghillie suit has no camo bonus at all (prehaps a stealth bonus)
2. There are special Ghillie camo patches you can attach to your Ghillie suit which provide the camo bonus.
- This way may lonely recons and sniper could have different camo patches in the inventory and change it according to the terrain.



Uhhhh..... just had a thought coming to my mind I need to preserve... what if I added several new "camo patch" items that need to be made from merges? You could order basic stuff from BR, but in order to get the most efficient camo you have to take "local" vegetation into account. But that of course would mean, I'll also have to add such "plants" as items to the XML and as well to certain wilderness maps (which would then also lead to exploring more obscure sectors, that usually are not visited that often... those items could be either quite rare, as it may be difficult to find suitable objects or they could also be quite common, but that would probably mean to litter many maps with "pickable" plants. Don't know at the moment, which approach would be more suitable *pun intended*). This however will of course mean a lot of work (I think just for diversity I would need like 5 or 6 different camo patches for woodland and desert each).

I will keep this idea somewhere in my head.

So, if anyone out there who likes this idea is capable of providing good pics for plants//vegetation that could go on a ghillie suit, feel free to submit them. Smile (otherwise I would have to do them myself, which could take some time...).

And this might even add some usefulness to the rubber bands, which could be used in the merges. Wink


Edit:
After some research using the keyword "Ghillie Kit", I found some nice pics that could work.

I will keep the Stealth bonus nevertheless, to keep an additional bonus on the Ghillie suit, otherwise it would be pretty pointless to wear one with the current camo system. This had been debated many times before, but it seems that all the coders who were capable of implementing a change to the camo system have magically disappeared (maybe they're trapped in some kind of real-life wormhole or something...). So we'll have to come up with changes that are manageable through the XML data that make the items more distinguishable. And especially concerning the Ghillie the next best thing I think is to increase stealth bonus.

[Updated on: Wed, 12 August 2009 16:13] by Moderator



Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230932] Wed, 12 August 2009 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
that with local vegetation to make specialized camo materials is quite a nice, albeit complicated idea. alot of stuff to make and place in the maps.

i

☆★GL★☆
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230936] Wed, 12 August 2009 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
I justed tested the repair feature and it works out fine (the compound needed to repair an armour is exactly the amount of damage to the armour... so in order to fully repair a 71% armour you'll need 29% of C-18).

However using C-18 on a C-20 item doesn't work too well. I intended to destroy the item by doing such a thing, but when the armour has an attachement (like NVG on a helmet or ceramic plates on a vest) the game crashes. I probably just remove the destroy thing then...


But that will have to wait for later... duty calls. Read you guys later.


Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230937] Wed, 12 August 2009 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
waldtroll

 
Messages:31
Registered:February 2007
Location: Berlin, Germany
OK I made some first tests about the G-suit setup.

My G-Suit (Jacket, Hood and Leggins) Has no Camo bonus (and no stealth as I thinkwe should leave that to the spec ops stuff)

I made Small and Big Camo Patches the small for Hood and Leggins the Big for the Jacket
- Small Woodland Ghilie Patch
- Big Woodland Ghilie Patch
- Small Desert Ghilie Patch
- Big Desert Ghilie Patch

The small Patches provide 25% Camo The Big 50% So a compleete fitte Suit has 100% camo

Where are two reasons why I made the small and Big system instead a Hood, Leggins, Jacket system
1. I am lazy, this way I had only to make two items instead of three
2. you can store a whole Patch set in two pockets instead of three (on Pocket with two small patches and one with on big)
Basicly wa are talking about a big bounch of rags you could probably stuff in a medium pocket but afaik we can not put different Items in on Pocket.

However.


The more interesting part is the following

for testing I made Kevlar Vest, Helmet and Leggins attachable with the Ghuilie stuff to simulate the possibility to wear a kevlar vest under your Ghuilie suit.

My question was how attachents on the Armor (e.g. an underarmor shirt on the kevlar vest or night vision googles on the helmet) behave if you atach the armor to the ghilie suit.

Well, as it seems the Game ignores Attachments of Attachments, what is a good thing in this case.
- If I add a Kevlar Vest with an Underarmor Shirt to my Ghilie Jacket I dosn't get additional 5% Camo from the Underarmor Shirt but I get the Protection of the Kevlar Vest.

- If I add a Helmet with Night vision Googles to The G-Hood the Night vision Googles are ignored (you cant swap them with "Shift + N")
However I would suggest to make Sun Glasses an Night Vision Googles attachable to The G-Hood itself that could be justified by assuming that the g-Hood provides some kind of Head Gear similar to this
http://images1.opticsplanet.com/640-640/opplanet-yukon-1x24-nightvision-monocular.jpg
under the camo-rags-pants-stuff-whatever.

My second concern was that Armor would be calculated the wron way.
My setup was that the ghuilie stuff had low armor ratings and 99% coverage
I worried that adding a Kevlar vest (70% coverage and better protection) would lead to an exploit cause the protection rating of the kevlar vest is added to the G-Jacket with it's 99% coverage leading to an armor rating like the Kevlar vest would have 99% coverage itselve.

Though at first place the quick info of the Ghilie Jacked with the attached Kevlar vest seem to approve my concern, by showing a higher protection rating and the same 99% coverage, it shows that the game calculates the compleete armor rating (the one shown between the inventory) correctly.


Edit: Well, I would like to ask you if you thought about adding 12Gauge Frag-Grenade-Rounds?
I know it is probably not possible to give them an Explosion Radius and they would of course be Scifi, but the benefit the much better range (and of course superb stopping power) for the price of a lot of bucks, could make Shotguns much more interseting in late game.
Edit the Edit: Found out that Frag-12 has a Range of ca 200m so in Game terms the Range would be similar to a Slug round, not that spectacular as I imagined.

[Updated on: Wed, 12 August 2009 19:14] by Moderator

Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230941] Wed, 12 August 2009 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1995
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
I'm with Mauser regarding camo things.

Leave "one has to utilize particular local vegetation to accomplish ideal camouflage" as "this is something even an ill trained soldier would do automatically on his own" to an internal game's presumption as it has been with the old style helmet covers: MK2 offers ability to strap on gras etc. which results in higher camo value just for this opportunity without somebody actually attaching some green stuff to it.

So, i think we should have those "camouflaged rags" to be added to (some? any? one particular?) armor.
And those could either be bought (prefabricated textile strings) or mcgyvered with camo kits, rags, rubber or string as Mauser suggested.

If we are going with only one particular ghillie that is the only armor to accept those camo parts, then it IMHO should be quite light, offering no more protection than (heavy) clothing and should not accept armor as further enhancing attachments.
Being "invisible" by camo should IMHO be a trade-off with protection.
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230945] Wed, 12 August 2009 19:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
one more thing smeagol: do you think there would be any possibility to make the rags some kind of "anti-camo kit", say to make it remove any camo bonus applied by camo kits?

we still miss the possibility to remove a once applied camo to reaplly another type to match the terrain. this is a thing that

☆★GL★☆
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230947] Wed, 12 August 2009 20:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Okay, as I see it, there are several different approaches concerning the Ghillie suit now:

I think we can all agree, that we want the Ghillie suit as an armor item, that should be no problem.

Next thing are the camo patches and possibilites for these include:
- factory made stuff sold by BR
- macgyverd stuff (this could take the local vegetation into account without actually having to gather plants... I think this was a nifty idea, but probably not very convenient to translate into game terms... for simplicity we just assume, that you'll need camo kits, rags, and some kind of string//rubber band. The plants are simply included)
- a mix of both with actually having two different items (one factory made and one macgyvered, which seems like the best idea to me, you'll have to attach both to get the full camo bonus. this would take into acount, that a good Ghillie suit is made on location)

Next is the size of the attachments. I'm with Waldtroll on this one, I think it is sufficient to have 2 different sizes, one small for hood and pants, one large for the vest.


Then the question of stealth:
Again, there would not be too much reason to wear the ghillie suit, when you simply could use a camo kit for the same effect. An 100% camo currently does NOT make you invisible. Opponents detect mercs lying perfectly still with 100% camo way too often, from distances that seem pretty ridiculous (like 10-12 tiles away). If you've seen trained soldiers in Ghillie suits, they are really hard to spot, even at rather close distances. I've seen a sniper school documentaion, where one part of the training was spotting someone in a Ghillie suit hiding 25-30 metres away. And this seemed really hard. The stealth bonus doesn't perfectly resemble what the Ghillie suit really does, but unless there is an option to increase Camo beyond 100%, I don't see any other possibility to make this item more interesting. And limiting other camo items to only 50% would be pretty much pointless, as then enemies would detect you even easier as they do now (which is still to easy for my liking...)
Maybe the Stealth bonus should be limited to something like 50%-70%, where as the Stealth Ops could offer 100%.

And last but not least: Possible armour attachements, weight and protection value:

I'm pretty much undecided yet, whether to make armour attachable or not.

The weight seems okay in my opinion, camo bonus should have a serious disadvantage, that translates best in terms of additional weight at the moment. I might cut some points here or there, but don't expect a full ghillie suit to weigh less than 20 or something...

And protective value of the Ghillie without any armor is obviously pretty slim (and I think this is also an argument to allow armour as attachments, of course not all armour, certainly no Field Ops, Recon and Stealth armor, as this would probably be a bit too much...)


@Mauser: Removable camo is probably beyond my abilities.

And a note on your suggestion about Dragonskin. In order to make that usefull with your suggestions, I would have to raise the protective values to a much higher value, don't know if that would translate too well into gameplay. Otherwise no one would blow 7.5k $ on a piece of armour that will degrade pretty fast.
I think I'll need more testing results on this, before I decide what to do. At the moment, I leave it as it is. I think I might be able to uplaod an update later on (but still with no updates to the description texts, that's tedious and boring work I'd rather do later...). But first of all I need to get rid of these destroy merges that cause the crashes.


Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230949] Wed, 12 August 2009 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dummvogel

 
Messages:5
Registered:February 2007
Location: Stade or Wolfenb

Ok, and now for something completely different: Toolboxes

I am voting for a kind of smaller toolbox. Something that fits into an utility pouch. Because now you need a TT-3-Day-Pack for your mechs, which is kind of impractical, because they are usually the heavy weapons guys and would be better suited with a HSW Pack oder the Recon Pack (40mm or 60mm Slings). And what would a guy reparing a gun need a big ass wrench for. Those toolboxes are overkill for what they are doing. And its kind of silly to lift a complete toolbox into battle.

Maybe something like this:
http://www.tools-plus.com/custom-leathercraft-dg5103.html?utm_medium=shopeng&utm_source=nextag&utm_term=CLCDG5103

Or this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G8XIAO/ref=asc_df_B001G8XIAO877289?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextag-tools-tier2-delta-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B001G8XIAO
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230950] Wed, 12 August 2009 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Quote:
@Mauser: Removable camo is probably beyond my abilities.

And a note on your suggestion about Dragonskin. In order to make that usefull with your suggestions, I would have to raise the protective values to a much higher value, don't know if that would translate too well into gameplay. Otherwise no one would blow 7.5k $ on a piece of armour that will degrade pretty fast.
I think I'll need more testing results on this, before I decide what to do. At the moment, I leave it as it is. I think I might be able to uplaod an update later on (but still with no updates to the description texts, that's tedious and boring work I'd rather do later...). But first of all I need to get rid of these destroy merges that cause the crashes.


well, dragonskin is supposed to stop a whole magazine from a Kalashnikov or M16, not to mention all weaker SMG ammunitions and even some sniper rounds like 7,62x51mm NATO or Dragunov.

so jacking up the armor value massively, would definitely be a good idea and also making the dragonskin VERY resilient against degradation, but also non repairable as said.

DBB mod had a very good Dragonskin, which really felt like the ultimate armor that would let your merc survive multiple bursts from close range, just taking a lot of stamina away but leaving your merc otherwise mostly only lightly wounded.

i think that

☆★GL★☆
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230951] Wed, 12 August 2009 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Dummvogel
Ok, and now for something completely different: Toolboxes

I am voting for a kind of smaller toolbox. Something that fits into an utility pouch. Because now you need a TT-3-Day-Pack for your mechs, which is kind of impractical, because they are usually the heavy weapons guys and would be better suited with a HSW Pack oder the Recon Pack (40mm or 60mm Slings). And what would a guy reparing a gun need a big ass wrench for. Those toolboxes are overkill for what they are doing. And its kind of silly to lift a complete toolbox into battle.

Maybe something like this:
http://www.tools-plus.com/custom-leathercraft-dg5103.html?utm_medium=shopeng&utm_source=nextag&utm_term=CLCDG5103

Or this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G8XIAO/ref=asc_df_B001G8XIAO877289?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextag-tools-tier2-delta-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B001G8XIAO


good idea, i second that! something like a small compact field maintennance and repair pouch with a limited assortment od tools and cleaning materials.

enough to maintain your guns and equipment, but not to make extensive repairs and only half as heavy as the full toolkit. something every grunt would be carrying around in the field for his own use.

maybe something like this: http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=186

or this: http://www.amazon.com/30-Piece-Emergency-Tool-Kit/dp/B000VBG0QG

☆★GL★☆
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230952] Wed, 12 August 2009 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Mauser
Dummvogel
Ok, and now for something completely different: Toolboxes

I am voting for a kind of smaller toolbox. Something that fits into an utility pouch. Because now you need a TT-3-Day-Pack for your mechs, which is kind of impractical, because they are usually the heavy weapons guys and would be better suited with a HSW Pack oder the Recon Pack (40mm or 60mm Slings). And what would a guy reparing a gun need a big ass wrench for. Those toolboxes are overkill for what they are doing. And its kind of silly to lift a complete toolbox into battle.

Maybe something like this:
http://www.tools-plus.com/custom-leathercraft-dg5103.html?utm_medium=shopeng&utm_source=nextag&utm_term=CLCDG5103

Or this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G8XIAO/ref=asc_df_B001G8XIAO877289?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextag-tools-tier2-delta-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B001G8XIAO


good idea, i second that! something like a small compact field maintennance and repair pouch with a limited assortment od tools and cleaning materials.

enough to maintain your guns and equipment, but not to make extensive repairs and only half as heavy as the full toolkit. something every grunt would be carrying around in the field for his own use.

maybe something like this: http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=186

or this: http://www.amazon.com/30-Piece-Emergency-Tool-Kit/dp/B000VBG0QG



Don't know if this is as easily done as said. I've thought about it as well, but I don't know, how the game engine would handle this. Maybe I should play around with the kit status tag a bit to see what's going on...


Edit:
Okay, I gave up on that Dragon Skin debate...
I made it unrepairable, no plates attachable, armour rating set to 75 // 80 for the Dragonskin Uniforms and lower aimed shot modifactor. Also increased the price by 2k $. Think of this as a trial version of Dragonskin for test reasons. Don't know if it will stay like this.
I also just fixed the description texts for all armour (unless I missed one or two, as usual).
I'll put an update together now and will upload it soon.

[Updated on: Wed, 12 August 2009 22:16] by Moderator



Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230953] Wed, 12 August 2009 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1995
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Mauser
Dummvogel
Ok, and now for something completely different: Toolboxes

I am voting for a kind of smaller toolbox. Something that fits into an utility pouch. Because now you need a TT-3-Day-Pack for your mechs, which is kind of impractical, because they are usually the heavy weapons guys and would be better suited with a HSW Pack oder the Recon Pack (40mm or 60mm Slings). And what would a guy reparing a gun need a big ass wrench for. Those toolboxes are overkill for what they are doing. And its kind of silly to lift a complete toolbox into battle.

Maybe something like this:
http://www.tools-plus.com/custom-leathercraft-dg5103.html?utm_medium=shopeng&utm_source=nextag&utm_term=CLCDG5103

Or this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001G8XIAO/ref=asc_df_B001G8XIAO877289?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=nextag-tools-tier2-delta-20&linkCode=asn&creative=380341&creativeASIN=B001G8XIAO


good idea, i second that! something like a small compact field maintennance and repair pouch with a limited assortment od tools and cleaning materials.

enough to maintain your guns and equipment, but not to make extensive repairs and only half as heavy as the full toolkit. something every grunt would be carrying around in the field for his own use.


I doubt whether this idea could be translated into the game.

But perhaps it would be a starter to transform the toolbox into a shape (and weight) similar to the "doctor's bag" (med kit). Thus it would fit into an ammo box' pouch?
Furthermore, the SAW vest (and even SAW daypack, if smeagol was going to create one) would then qualify as mech's LBE as well.
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230954] Wed, 12 August 2009 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Uploaded V34 with all changes to the armour system.

Have fun. :happybear:


Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230961] Wed, 12 August 2009 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3787
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
I just installed 33 not a half hour ago........ , you and Headrock must use the same 'stimulants'... :ok:


Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230963] Wed, 12 August 2009 23:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:769
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Quote:
Edit:
Okay, I gave up on that Dragon Skin debate...
I made it unrepairable, no plates attachable, armour rating set to 75 // 80 for the Dragonskin Uniforms and lower aimed shot modifactor. Also increased the price by 2k $. Think of this as a trial version of Dragonskin for test reasons. Don't know if it will stay like this.
I also just fixed the description texts for all armour (unless I missed one or two, as usual).
I'll put an update together now and will upload it soon.


that

☆★GL★☆
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230968] Thu, 13 August 2009 00:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
waldtroll

 
Messages:31
Registered:February 2007
Location: Berlin, Germany
Whoo, you're fast.

First things I notice

-Kevlar vest has Aimed shot -2 and no AP penalty
-Kevlar vest-18 has Aimed shot -2 and AP -2
-Kevlar vest-20 has Aimed shot -1 and AP -1 (imho should be Aimed shot -2)

-> Seems to be this way with all the basic armors I don't know but it is probably not intended that Unmodified armor has an aiming shot penalty worse when C-20 I thought c-20 should be in between c-18 and unmodified as the AP-Penalty implies.

-Kevlar Leggins have AP -3
-C-18 Kev. Leggins have AP -5
-C-20 Kev. Leggins have AP -4

-Twaron Leggins have AP -2
-C-18 Tw. Leggins have AP -3 (should be -4?)
-C-20 Tw. Leggins have AP -2 (should be -3?)

-Recon Kevlar Leggins have AP -3 (should be -2?)
-Recon C18 Kev. Leg. have AP -5 (should be -4?)
-Recon C20 Kev. Leg. have AP -4 (should be -3?)

-Recon Twaron Leggins have AP -1
-Recon C18 Tw. Leg. have AP -2 (should be -3?)
-Recon C20 Tw. Leg. have AP -1 (should be -2?)

Well, I have to work in the morning, so I go to bed now, if I will find more, I will tell you.

Edit: As a side note: The Twaron Vest gets better in APs and Aimed shot when it is upgraded to recon (Aim.S.-2 and AP -2 to Aim.S.-1 and AP -1) And the Kevlar vest can't gain a positive AP Bonus I would suggest that the Kevlar vest gains two points at the Aimed Shot Penalty when upgraded to Recon to Compensate that it dosn't get a bonus on the APs.

In this case Recon Kevlar vests would have the following penalties

-Rec. Kev. Vest. Aim.Shot 0 AP -0
-Rec. Kev. Vest. c18 Aim.Shot 0 AP -2
-Rec. Kev. Vest. c20 Aim.Shot 0 AP -1

Just a suggestion



AND
The Avon S10 Gas mask seems a bit buggy-
1. It gets -10 Daytime vision but +10 Bright light vision
2. It gets a night time vision bonus AND is compatible with Night vision Googles (is that intended? I mean you could have BETTER night vision if you use your night vision googles with this gas mask then without it?)

[Updated on: Thu, 13 August 2009 01:05] by Moderator

Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230970] Thu, 13 August 2009 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Thanks for reporting those. When I work fast, it's easy to miss the details. It's especially difficult, if all item look pretty much identical. More eyes see more.

Would be nice, if you get that list going and search for more inconsistencies, I'll fix them as soon as possible (at the moment I'm taking some hours off... still got seasons 6 and 7 of Voyager lying around unwatched...)


Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #230976] Thu, 13 August 2009 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Forral

 
Messages:72
Registered:May 2009
Location: Sweden
As far as I heard, the Dragonskin armour was pretty sensitive to the elements and it would malfunction in very hot or cold temperatures. There is mayhaps not many ways that unreliability could be portrayed in JA terms, but maybe making it take damage from being submerged in water could be an idea?

I don't know if water would damage it in Real-Life but it's still something to indicate that, while the armour is of tremendous protective qualities against firearms it's still quite fragile to other factors, and care would have to be taken to not screw up the suit. It would naturally be neat if it could be a bit unreliable in the Desert and Swamp sectors in general, because of the extreme environment, but that would go way beyond simple XML.


I don't remember the exact details, but wasn't the odd behavior in various temperatures the reason that it failed the try-outs for the US army? They felt the armour couldn't be "trusted"? Or did I just make that up?

Edit:
Turns out I did sort of pull it out of my arse. The armours did fail, and the Army did claim that they failed to perform in high temperature environments. However,Pinnacle Armour, the producers of Dragonskin Armour claim their product can pass the environmental tests just fine and think the Army either tampered with the armour or faked the tests. The Army simply lean back on the fact that the information is classified and refuse to share any details.

So it's a bit of an area of controversy and conspiracy theories, at least from what can be made of the Wikipedia article. Because of that I'll withraw my request. There's nothing reliable really supporting my suggestion, and its implementation would have had to be crude at best.

[Updated on: Thu, 13 August 2009 11:33] by Moderator

Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #231001] Thu, 13 August 2009 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1995
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Naturally, i am not able to judge if this is trustworthy and telling the truth:
A PDF from professionalsoldiers.com about the official DS testing
Assuming it as truthful then the DS in RL ...
  • is infact negatively influenced by high temperature and
  • not influenced by (salt) water but by oil/fuel.
  • is not really repairable in the field and
  • is not to be amended by "normal" plates.
But of course too much realism could be hindering playability; if the DS in game has too many disadvantages, nobody will use/buy it.
If its advantages are too high, its usage will become a no-brainer - and smeagol won't like it then. Wink
Re: Alpha_Item_Mod_for_WF6.06 Part 2[message #231002] Thu, 13 August 2009 14:32 Go to previous message
smeagol

 
Messages:2730
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Waldtroll

The Avon S10 Gas mask seems a bit buggy-
1. It gets -10 Daytime vision but +10 Bright light vision
2. It gets a night time vision bonus AND is compatible with Night vision Googles (is that intended? I mean you could have BETTER night vision if you use your night vision googles with this gas mask then without it?)


1. The -10 daytime +10 brightlight was intended (tainted lenses that shield the eye from bright light, but won't be effective in normal daylight).
2. That was not intended and will be changed.


I think it's again time to start a new thread, this one got full very fast. :computer3:

Part 3 can be found here

[Updated on: Thu, 13 August 2009 14:54] by Moderator



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