Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232379]
|
Wed, 02 September 2009 12:13  
|
|
 stigma |
 |
Messages:25
Registered:August 2009 |
|
|
I don't have any bugreports on HAM3.6 alpha yet (except for duplicate lines in the XML), apart from the balance issues I voiced above. This is mainly because I havent been playing any "real" games with it yet, just testing mostly. I was kinda waiting for your new INI file with your recommended settings since the one in the download by your own admision had a weird mishmash of JA2 vanilla and HAM settings.
If you could provide that new INI as soon as you can, I will start a brand new game with it and report any bugs I find along with further thoughts on balance issues.
BTW, will any modifications to facility attributes require a restart to activate, or will resuming a saved game after modifying the XML make those changes active?
One last thing spesifically about the Drassen ambient -1 to health: At the current level it is obviously wrong, as an average person would die in a matter of months living there (people work all day at much larger airports IRL with little to no ill effects). However, even if you significantly reduce the chance of that happening I think players would end up treating that sector as "poison", wich is a shame since the ACA office is there and all. In general I guess I just dont see enough of a reason to have that perticular detriment for that sector. Thats just my opinion though, and I will continue to give spesific feedback for the different facility types as I play more. Do with that as you will  Now that I know what those chance numbers mean, I can atleast give a loose suggestion of what might be more suitable.
-Stigma
[Updated on: Wed, 02 September 2009 12:15] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
|
Private 1st Class
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232465]
|
Thu, 03 September 2009 16:00
|
|
| jj |
 |
Messages:8
Registered:August 2005
Location: Australia |
|
|
HeadrockQuote:BTW, will any modifications to facility attributes require a restart to activate
No, there are very very few HAM features that require a restart. Facilities aren't one of them, you can change them whenever you want. But please do make sure that you remove all mercs from facility duty before removing the facility they are using  It shouldn't cause any problems, but just to be sure.
Quote:One last thing spesifically about the Drassen ambient -1 to health
Yeah, I guess the health risk should be moved into the actual assignment fields so that only people staffing or training at the airport will be at risk. Still, with a ubChance of 1 you will get a health decrease only once per 70 days, on average...
Here, I've compiled the excel chart. It's just a statistical guide that "translates" the ubChance value into all sorts of probabilities.
http://www.bookgallery.co.il/JA2PublicPosts/HAM/FacilityRisks.xls
IRA just lost 5 points of health when working at the airport facility. it happens just when I started using ham3.6 for an hour(game time). wht a great lucky.
I dont quite understand why staff will lost their MAX health when they are working at the facility. In my case, IRA has been trained to 97 HPs by dozen of days and she just lost 5 HPs in an hour.
I know her job(work at the facility) is risky and I also recongize that there is "a very little" (which may be 30, 50 or more) chance would cause an accident. however, if work at facility will drop down the MAX attritubes, I doubt the players will use it. In my opition, you could set the punishment by another way, like every accident would increase the cost(for those who are free, just make them costable).
Another question, when mercenary injure, why they dont lost their energy?
Apoligize for my poor english, if u feel hard to read it. I m from TBS.
Report message to a moderator
|
Private
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232503]
|
Thu, 03 September 2009 22:56
|
|
| Gunjack |
|
Messages:20
Registered:March 2008
Location: Stuttgart, Germany |
|
|
jjI know her job(work at the facility) is risky and I also recongize that there is "a very little" (which may be 30, 50 or more) chance would cause an accident. however, if work at facility will drop down the MAX attritubes, I doubt the players will use it.
Same here, permanent Health damage is baaaad. What about setting the damage to somewhat about 50 or so, but make it temporary (healable by doc or hospital), like when getting shot?
Than, repairing at the facility should imho be same cost as it is now, but much faster. There the tech has a full set of professional tools and pro-staff able to help. I'm thinking of 5x-10x compared to normal repair speed.
p.s.: no other bugs so far.
Report message to a moderator
|
Private 1st Class
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232526]
|
Fri, 04 September 2009 02:42
|
|
| Shadooow |
 |
Messages:109
Registered:April 2009
Location: Czech Republic |
|
|
not sure if its HAM 3.6A or 1.13 bug but I encountered this situations:
- Fox standing behind window get disrupted by elite, he fired burst to her, and her lost half HPs and immediately got -53APs, next round she still got -20APs
- Dimitri running, spent like 20APs from 100, enemy ssniper got disrupt, shot him for 10hp and Dimitri got -55APs, next round he got -13APs
- Dimitri running, spent all APs, next round enemy found him, came to him and cut him with knife, in my turn, dimitri got -30APs
the APs are +-
Using default HAM setting. Is this feature or what? This is not playable, everything I can do with this behaviour is to defend good defensive place like house  .
[Updated on: Fri, 04 September 2009 02:43] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232529]
|
Fri, 04 September 2009 03:33
|
|
| stigma |
|
Messages:25
Registered:August 2009 |
|
|
Well this is the supression system in HAM. Its meant to simulate how supression fire works in real life. Basically, getting shot at (even if the bullets miss and only go close past you) has negative effects, mostly that you lose AP. In other words, its not viable to play "action-hero" if you have supression on. If someone goes full auto on you - you WILL get supressed, and youl basically be screwed then if you are also outnumbered.
Thankfully the same tactics also work just as well on the enemies. If 20 enemies are storming towards your team sniping position over an open field, just one or two mercs in good positions with machine guns can suppress them and significantly slow them down. It dosn't really matter if 99% of the bullets from the machineguns miss - as long as the enemies are scared as hell to pop their heads up.
When supression is enabled - being outnumbered/outgunned is a much bigger disadvantage than what you may be used to from before.
So I suggest one of the following:
- Change the way you play DRASTICLY. You basically have to when supression is enabled, but the benefit is that you get a much deeper strategical game IMO.
- Chance the INI settings to either make supression effects less noticable, or disable them alltogether.
EDIT: Headrock made a big post about how exactly the supression system in HAM works. Its on the forums here somewhere under "how-to's" or something.
-Stigma
[Updated on: Fri, 04 September 2009 03:35] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
|
Private 1st Class
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232533]
|
Fri, 04 September 2009 05:46
|
|
| stigma |
|
Messages:25
Registered:August 2009 |
|
|
If you don't want to take the "easy way out" but rather try to adjust your tactics I recommend you try to take advantage of the same system that is causing you problems to adjust to.
I recommend you dedicate one or two people on your team for supression fire. Equipped with machine guns and full auto you can effectively keep enemies pinned down, and while they are covering in fear you can either move around the flank with some other mercs (if you prefer close/mid range combat), or use snipers to good effect and win the long-distace fight with precision shots.
Its doable with a single team, tho easier with two teams on a particularly hard map. Just expect to fire a lot more bullets than you are normally used to. Supression fires main objective is to pin down the enemy, not actually kill them. You do the killing either with a flanking group or snipers for example.
In extreme close quarters, like inside a house, its a bit different. Supresion fire is generally less important in those situations. My best recommendation is to have your mercs allways covering eachother, so if for example one of them gets burs-fired and supressed you can win the situation by having his partner supress them back with full auto (or a grenade/gas also usually works well if they are tightly grouped together, maybye a combo of both). That will render the enemy largely "stunned" for the next round so they can't finish off the merc that got into trouble. In general, as long as supression is activated, it pays off to allways have backup. Going solo anywhere is really really risky... which is realistic I guess
-Stigma
Report message to a moderator
|
Private 1st Class
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232540]
|
Fri, 04 September 2009 10:37
|
|
| jj |
|
Messages:8
Registered:August 2005
Location: Australia |
|
|
hey, does any1 can repair hummer? I cant. neither at normal roal or at Munitions Factory/Junkyard.
only happens to hummer, other vehicles are fine.
[Updated on: Fri, 04 September 2009 10:47] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
|
Private
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232601]
|
Sat, 05 September 2009 10:03
|
|
| stigma |
|
Messages:25
Registered:August 2009 |
|
|
jji know the min. requirements or something like that. and my imp has 100 mechanical skill, other mercs has 98+.
I have tested that only HUMMER could not be repaired.
So, I would like to knwo if it is a BUG.
I dont think so. I have seen discussions about it before.
Try this: Save your game then hire Trevor. I know he can fix anything in the game. If it works with him then its just a hidden trait that some mercs have I guess. For a cheaper alternative, try maybye Gasket. He worked in a garage according to his bio, so if its a hidden trait that some mercs have it would be natural for him to have this ability (and hes cheap, so no biggie).
In an case, if it were a bug I don't believe it would be HAM related (from what I understand about what HAM modifies). Headrock wuld be the only one who could give a proper answer to if tat would be a possibility tho.
-Stigma
[Updated on: Sat, 05 September 2009 10:10] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
|
Private 1st Class
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232608]
|
Sat, 05 September 2009 12:47
|
|
| jj |
|
Messages:8
Registered:August 2005
Location: Australia |
|
|
Stigmajji know the min. requirements or something like that. and my imp has 100 mechanical skill, other mercs has 98+.
I have tested that only HUMMER could not be repaired.
So, I would like to knwo if it is a BUG.
I dont think so. I have seen discussions about it before.
Try this: Save your game then hire Trevor. I know he can fix anything in the game. If it works with him then its just a hidden trait that some mercs have I guess. For a cheaper alternative, try maybye Gasket. He worked in a garage according to his bio, so if its a hidden trait that some mercs have it would be natural for him to have this ability (and hes cheap, so no biggie).
In an case, if it were a bug I don't believe it would be HAM related (from what I understand about what HAM modifies). Headrock wuld be the only one who could give a proper answer to if tat would be a possibility tho.
-Stigma
I hired Trevor and it also doesnt work. however, my Imp can repair Hummer in HAM3.5. Besides, He could repaired other vehicles but HUMMER.
Stigma, can you repair your HUMMER in HAM3.6 ALPHA?
Report message to a moderator
|
Private
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232923]
|
Thu, 10 September 2009 06:15
|
|
| TheShodan |
|
Messages:23
Registered:May 2007 |
|
|
So I was just messing around in Drassen and took the SAM site. Apparently you can staff your mercs there but you pay for them to work, what are they paying college internship or something? Anyways the sector was attacked by a small group, I wiped them out. I put the same merc back onto working but it said I had an outstanding debt of $380. I clicked yes but nothing changed, no money was deducted at all, and the merc was not put on staff duty. I tried again but clicked no this time and the game crashed.
Report message to a moderator
|
Private 1st Class
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #232926]
|
Thu, 10 September 2009 10:11
|
|
| Starwalker |
 |
Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany |
|
|
jj2. in the tactical map, when I press SHIFT+M, all items will locate at the selected MERC`s place. let`s call this location A. sometimes when somebody pass this loaction A, it becomes an explosion, just like a mine.
That was a landmine, indeed.
Sometimes SHIFT+M relocates some buried mines as well, and sometimes this is detectable: If you cannot see the stack of items on the tile (i.e. no picture of things on the round), then a hidden item (like a landmine) may be in the stack.
EDIT: BTW, that's not a HAM-bug
[Updated on: Thu, 10 September 2009 10:12] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #233171]
|
Mon, 14 September 2009 08:13
|
|
| dinglehopper |
|
Messages:134
Registered:January 2008 |
|
|
I have some bugs.
If the job for a merc was blinking (like maybe just finished being patient) and you assign them to a facility, it keeps blinking.
Sometimes when working at airport packages deliveries vanish, always happens when I make two orders at once and have people working at airport, but it doesn't happen every time so not sure what is causeing it. And yes I have stealing turned off, so is not that. I think it only happens if airport attacked while someone staffing it.
Practicing at a facility gives no benefit to learning the skill. had two mercs with same wis and same starting level of skill, and they progressed the same one using facility other not. Not sure if it was not intended to speed things up, which brings up a point. Before you make this go live you need to make a readme, add a help screen to the game, add info to your wiki, or do something to let players know what each facility task is meant to do. Would really help with testing too to know that. For example, far as I can tell the sam site job is just a great way to loose money and degrade your mercs, not much fun really.
the health hits are evil, not in a fun way. health is hard to gain, and I have tried to regain but can't even come close to catching up to what i have lost. this alone makes me want to ditch facilities even though they seem fun otherwise. The airport hit, which seems like just a cheap attempt to get environmentalism in JA2 really sucks since you have to be there to train militia for drassen.
Also the readme for installing and running ham needs to be updated to include info for those who use the ini editor.
the other changes seem to be working great. And i think there is tons of potential for facilities, but the current method of hitting health ruins it. Perhaps make each facility hurt a different trait and make it known what these are, that way you know if you work at facility x you may loose attribute y, but you can spread the wealth around. Like it is now, I am going to have to change the train health ini setting to like 2 in order to keep up with my loses.
thanks and keep up the good work.
Dingle
Edit: forgot some bugs.
The penalty hits don't always get displayed via a popup, noticed this especially at airport. Really sucks to look at your stats and realize you lost 8 health and never got a popup for a single one of them.
one time i left a facility that paid me to work there and lost all the money I had been paid. Actually caused me to go negative in cash, which has never happened to me before in ja2. i didn't even know it was possible. have not been able to repeat this.
After an "accident" the merc who was involved stays at the facility but no longer gets any benefits from doing so. this sometimes spreads to other mercs at same job. can't figure out the commonality but i think it has something to do with resting during the accident.
The facilities make the game progress much slower because instead of fighting and winning my mercs are working fulltime jobs it seems. enrico is getting very mad at my lack of progress. Is there any way to make enrico slack up on his timescale demands when using facilities?
Dingle
[Updated on: Mon, 14 September 2009 08:27] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant
|
|
|
|
| Re: HAM 3.6 Alpha - RELEASED[message #233183]
|
Mon, 14 September 2009 12:24
|
|
| Kaihuligan |
|
Messages:4
Registered:September 2009
Location: New Zealand |
|
|
First up, Headrock, thanks for some pretty damn neat changes to the game - especially suppression, even though it's usually my troops suffering from it rather than the enemy ...
Some comments on the facilities that you've set up with 3.6:
As I'm playing Smeagol's Wildfire mod (items+maps), I tweaked a few of the locations (particularly the ACA buildings) and introduced the port in Chitzena. Also added a weaker version of the Munitions Factory to both Cambria and Drassen (Wildfire includes an extra sector, C14, as part of Drassen), which has lower benefits than the Munitions factory, lower skill requirements, but has the same penalties. Haven't had a chance in the current playthough to test many of the facilities - currently only hold Drassen and Chitzena, but messing around with the facilities in these areas leads me to the next point ...
I definitely concur with Dingle - the permanent reductions to skills and attributes, particularly the health hits, are pretty vicious, especially if you slow down the rate of advancement for skills and attributes. Typically, I use x4 for all points required for advancement, which slows the advancement/game to a pace that I like, but as a consequence it really stings when you have to try to recover 5 points of health on someone that started out in the 80s or 90s. I've reduced the chances of any permanent stat change to a third of what they were originally in the facility type xml file, but having used Gasket in Drassen over a period of two weeks in-game, he's now sitting on 59 health having started with 72, and even sitting in the beach resort in a trainer/student setup, I can see it's going to take an awfully long time (at best guess, 6+ weeks or more) before he gets back to anywhere close to that original health.
From some of the previous posts, I understand you're still trying to balance out the risks of the facilities, but as a suggestion from someone who messes around with the advancement rate (and assuming it's not already taken into account), would it be possible to have the chances of both positive and negative stat and skill effects to be adjusted by the same proportion as the appropriate SUBPOINTS_TO_IMPROVE - otherwise what may be a nicely balanced facility with stock advancement simply isn't worth using with 4x slower advancement.
Effects like injury on the other hand, while the chances might still need adjusting, don't have the same issue - even though I've slowed the healing down as much as I could (from 1/4/12 in the base options.ini to 3/10/20), a couple of days with a competent medic and all's well.
Some of the facility stat/skill requirements strike me as being high - particularly the practice strength features of the airport and harbour, along with some of the wisdom requirements - 85, 90 strikes me as cutting out too many of the mercs from the assignments, and that 70, 75 would be a better high end limit for most assignments (barring those few assignments that really should require the best of the best, where maybe 2 or 3 mercs in total can undertake the assignment).
I definitely like the facilities system - it's changing the way I tend to play, as normally with 32 mercs I'd have probably around 24 that I'd consider combatants, whereas with this I can see myself down to about 12-18 combatants with the rest staffing various facilities ...
Finally, one thing in the facility types xml file, Facility 17, the Lab, appears to have an error - TRAINER_EXPLOSIVES appears twice, with no STUDENT_EXPLOSIVES?
In addition, I've run into a couple of bugs with 3.6:
Like Dingle, I've had shipments disappear on me in Drassen - messing around tonight, managed to get 2 out of 3 shipments arrive after forcing an attack on the airfield, but tried it again with 2 attacks and all three shipments arrived.
The mercs section of the laptop is reporting all sorts of weird assignments for each of them - apparently half my crew is dead (but still lethal - move over Universal Soldier ...), two of them are POWs, and a few of the others are reported to be doing things that might be remotely related to what they're actually doing, plus both Buns and Spider are showing up in the departed mercs section with Barry's portrait. Not annoying as much as amusing. 
Again, thanks for the work you've done with HAM so far, and look forward to seeing what you'll introduce next ...
Kai.
Report message to a moderator
|
Civilian
|
|
|
|
| Pages (12): [ 4 ] |
  |
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Thu Apr 18 20:53:07 GMT+3 2024
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02891 seconds
|
Blog
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
