Home » BIT COMPOSER GAMES » Jagged Alliance: Back in Action (by Coreplay) » Newest gameplay video
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296741] Sun, 15 January 2012 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss is currently offline EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:137
Registered:September 2009
lockie
Exos , simply don't buy this product . Easy !
The bear orders you not to do this ! :happybear:


It's not that easy.
If I just roll over and say nothing then BC will think that this is THE way to go ahead with this series.
I've tried to be positive and supportive. But if you look on their official forum and see all the suggestions and wishes from the gamers being ignored without a second glance.
Let's just say that irks me in several ways.

The attitude of the mods on the forum. How they talk to people that agree with them with cheer and demean the ones that do not.
That is the reason that the mood on the forum is a bit hostile at times.

BC has raised the bar for this game to high for them to reach on their first go. Look back at how much content they have cut during the past year that have big influences on the gameplay. Latest victim is the FoW.
Like I said (I believe it's in a different thread here) if they made a simpler 3D engine with destructo physics and cell shading, add some modding tools then they would have a good cashcow for JA3.

The way it looks now they made a isometric squad based CoD game without line of sight. And I was hoping for a bit more then that.

And there lies a major peeve. I hate mediocre games. C&C4, Supreme Commander 2, Crysis 2. All dumbed down to appeal to a "broader" audience or for Multiplayer.
That's one of the big reasons why I asked the chief editor of Gamespot to put a JA2 Veteran reviewer on this. And lets just say his reply put me at ease on that point.

I want a game that gives me freedom and challenges me. But not in a way that the computer AI is just cheating to win. (Like catch up in Need for Speed)
Because that is what I loved about Jagged Alliance.

Rant over for now... I need a cookie...

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296744] Sun, 15 January 2012 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
EXos

Because you never answer properly.
When we ask about why certain things were cut from the game you just say:
Then what are you associated with? Marketing?

You don't get the fact that I'm here as a private person and may not tell you things I'm not allowed to tell. I repeated this like 10 times. I've seen this behavior pattern from you multiple times. For example Michael explained 10 times why FoW was cut and you continue asking the same question again and again and again on the official forum. The answer will not change no matter how often you ask.
Marketing is part of the publisher, not the developer. My name tells you what profession I have.

Regarding demo: In the official german forum, Michael has posted at http://boards.jaggedalliance.com/index.php?/topic/259-das-entwickler-interview-die-antworten/page__view__findpost__p__4007
Aber es wird wohl keinen Aufschrei geben, wie bei anderen Produktionen, wo es zur Ver

[Updated on: Sun, 15 January 2012 17:03] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296746] Sun, 15 January 2012 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
I somehow doubt the wisdom of ambiguity and joking around when one catches that much flak, but that guy will know what he does ... Uh Oh

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Captain

Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296749] Sun, 15 January 2012 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss is currently offline EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:137
Registered:September 2009
Michael

Geschrieben 09 Januar 2012 - 10:45
See, I've already explained this in the german part of the forum. But i'll try my best to answer it here in full detail again.

There won't be a fog of war.
The post from Jochen was from may and back in these days the fog of war was still integrated. Even in times of the gamescom in August it was integrated. And back in these days the fog of war was still part of the gameplay. But it was cut. Not because it wasn't working (It actually worked. Not like some sites may claim that the engine wasn't capable of doing so) but it was not fun at all. Features can change during developement and in this case it happened. It may have been communicated to early.

However let me explain why it wasn't fun: The fog of war lead to dozens of trial and error situations which were not very funny. not knowing where an enemy is was kinda frustrating and the game paused all the way cause you're facing yet another enemy. You couldn't really use tactics but just move along and try to survive. It had nothing to do with deeper tactics and tricking out the AI but just fighting with some luck. In several testrounds with a lot of people it was decided to cut the fog of war.

Dunno if my explanation makes sense in english. It's late here and I'm kinda tired right now. Guess I'll have to read this post tomorrow again. However this doesn't mean there won't be a fog of war forever. We're thinking about some kind of hardcorepatch for the JA-Geeks who want give it a try. But that'd be after release. And it's not carved in stone yet. Just wanted to let you know that we're thinking about it.


I have read the official response. And found it lacking. Even if he wrote it late at night.
Instead of making it optional from the beginning they are thinking about adding it in a patch. Basically it's been turned into commando's without the emphasis on stealth.
In Commando's 2 there were several mission where a wave of German troops would enter the level. They we're easily defeated if you put the commando's around corners etc. and just shoot on sight.
I can see the same happening here. Unless you have some good AI routines, so the enemies can work around it, it's going to break gameplay with a loud audible snap. You say they're working on the AI then I hope this is high on the list.

As for your inability to answer questions. What did you think would happen, coming here in the lion's den where all the fanatics hang around (myself included).
Having said that, I commend you on being here. I truly do.
With all the questions on the official forums you could have expected more of the same (maybe more) here.

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296756] Sun, 15 January 2012 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cdudau
So.....

Who is giving this franchise a shot next?

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Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296757] Sun, 15 January 2012 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hazapuza

 
Messages:262
Registered:February 2009
Location: Finland
If I'm not mistaken, bitComposer has/had plans to make Jagged Alliance 3 after BiA.

As for Koda, thank you for coming here and clearing things up a little. I think we all are more or less grateful for that.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296772] Sun, 15 January 2012 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun is currently offline SmokinGun

 
Messages:69
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun
Koda
Did you ever think about that in a company DIFFERENT people exist with DIFFERENT opinions?

Edit: Oh and by the way, I was in no way associated with the game design, so I really don't have to defend myself against this ignorant attacks.


So you're here as a "private" person who works for one of the companies that developed the game. You're here to clarify aspects of the game and its features, to persuade people here the game will be grate and of course there are many things you can't discuss about the game as a company representative or "private" person.

But you're in no way "associated with the game". What "different opinion" have you expressed about the game other than being a company cheerleader? Let me spell it out for you- there is a massive disconnect between what your companies are puking out as a representation of the JA franchise and the beloved JA games we've been playing for many years. The gameplay will speak for itself, your empty cheerleading rhetoric for a game you're "not associated with" means nothing.

Fog of war cut because its "just not fun". Turn based cut because its "just not fun" and is "outdated". Psst...the companies developing the "new flashy actiony JA" are fcking clueless about what made the JA franchise ledgendary in PC gaming history. So now would be a good time for you to stop feeling "offended" when the overwhelming concensus is that the direction and choices taken with the new game are mistakes, do not represent a legacy and will basically suck. I'm willing to wager that after the game is released and reviews start coming in you're not going to be so smug about convincing others how good the game is.

The developers did not listen to ANYTHING the core fans were basically pleading to keep intact as core aspects of gameplay.

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296773] Sun, 15 January 2012 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S is currently offline R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
@SmokinGun

Yeah, Silent Storm was such an awful game because it had no FoW, it totally ruined the game balance and tactical fun, right?

And judging something before even trying it never did any harm, no problems there.

Actually knowing what goes on behind the scene at bC and Coreplay might be something you know all about, maybe you would care to share that with the rest of us.

(This was an ironic/sarcastic post, in case you couldn't read between the lines)

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296774] Sun, 15 January 2012 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
@SmokingGun
I said I wasn't associated with the game design, not the game. Stop citing incorrectly! And how often do I need to repeat that I was for keeping turn based combat and that I was for keeping FoW. Read my first posts. I only explained to you WHY it was removed, and that it definitly is working fine as it is. I was skeptical myself before playing it intensively over christmas.

And I was offended by the insults, not any opinions! I did clearly state that and you know that!

[Updated on: Sun, 15 January 2012 22:29] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296775] Sun, 15 January 2012 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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Mind you, I haven't played SS, only H&S a little bit ... but from a quick search, it appears to have FoW ?!?

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Captain

Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296776] Sun, 15 January 2012 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21 is currently offline Shadow21

 
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@ R@s jagged alliance 2 doesnt have FoW either but it has "realistic" line of sight just like silent storm had and jabia should have. Command and Conquer and other RTS-games had FoW

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Master Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296777] Sun, 15 January 2012 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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Well, I assumed we were talking about the line-of-sight/view-range type FoW with uncovered map the whole time, not the start-with-black-map variety.

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Captain

Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296778] Sun, 15 January 2012 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss is currently offline EXile 150 Abyss

 
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DepressivesBrot
Well, I assumed we were talking about the line-of-sight/view-range type FoW with uncovered map the whole time, not the start-with-black-map variety.


Same here.

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296781] Sun, 15 January 2012 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S is currently offline R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
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Ooops, I was wrong about Silent Storm then, and I got pie on my face(which I deserve for not checking my notion before posting, lesson learned)

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296782] Sun, 15 January 2012 23:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun is currently offline SmokinGun

 
Messages:69
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun
Ha. I still play SS (great AI btw) and TOEE and JA etc. Also recently picked up 7.62 solely because of the modding you did to fix the game. I've only been able to play a small amount, but thanks for your MODDING to make the game playable.

Koda
As much as I love a game being replayable, it seems the online forum(!) community often seems to mistake their continued affection to a game with commercial success. This is sadly not true. Most people pay once and that's it. The publisher (even less the developer) can't live from that, as there usually are really just a few sales after some time even if the game is "alive" for ten years (and these sales are for cheap money) due to mods.


If I seem overly harsh, well I am. Your above statement was an assinine thing to say here, especially as a representative of the game. Right, so you did not make "design decisions" on the current game. But as someone who worked on the game and have clearly stated you represent the game, stop splitting hairs. For you to blatantly state that the focus is to make a quick buck while raping a franchise's name and stripping any semblance of the original series, is hardly professional, respectful or likely to win support.

Preaching to the community here about how we've been mistaken about enjoying the game in relation to $$$ and commercial success doesn't sit well. You think people want to support that ideology around here? You are still not listening because you're so busy trying to be right. Can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm starting to think you might be german? wink wink.

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296784] Sun, 15 January 2012 23:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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Maybe that's why JA:O enjoys an overall more positive reception among the forum community? They depend on the players continued enjoyment of the game to slowly relieve him of bits and pieces of cash due to the very basis of how that gametype works. While the classic SP retail game will relieve you of 50

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Captain

Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296787] Sun, 15 January 2012 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
SmokinGun

If I seem overly harsh, well I am. Your above statement was an assinine thing to say here, especially as a representative of the game. Right, so you did not make "design decisions" on the current game. But as someone who worked on the game and have clearly stated you represent the game, stop splitting hairs. For you to blatantly state that the focus is to make a quick buck while raping a franchise's name and stripping any semblance of the original series, is hardly professional, respectful or likely to win support.

Preaching to the community here about how we've been mistaken about enjoying the game in relation to $$$ and commercial success doesn't sit well. You think people want to support that ideology around here? You are still not listening because you're so busy trying to be right. Can't quite put my finger on it, but I'm starting to think you might be german? wink wink.

You did notice that I was responding in the context of mod support and the context of long-living games not necessarily being successful in a commercial point of view? It's not about making "a quick buck" - especially since we're the developer, not the publisher. But you need to make sure that you get enough money to survive. And that was what I was stating, to make clear that the publisher needs enough sales to cover the cost. Again, I'm not from the publisher so this is an outside view!
I also don't agree at all with that "raping" comment. You continuously use strong words but haven't even seen the final version of the game live, so you're not even able to judge it.

Oh, and it's not hard to judge that I'm german when Coreplay is located in Munich...

I won't respond any further to comments like this. For the others: if you have specific questions, I'm glad to check whether I can and may answer them.

[Updated on: Sun, 15 January 2012 23:50] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296788] Mon, 16 January 2012 00:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S is currently offline R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
@SmokinGun
I'm sorry about my harsh post before, didn't now you were a fellow 7.62 player :waving: . And I'm glad you appreciate my and the community's work. Since you haven't played it much I would like to give you some advice that will make the game more pleasant to play. There are some keys that should be used a lot, the "shift" key to speed up camera movement and the "+" and "-" keys that speeds up time. But that's enough off-topic for now.

@Koda
I'm glad you decided to continue answering questions, so I have one that I tried to get an answer from Michael about. I am asking about the preview version, not release version if that gets you out of any restrictions.

Are there binoculars in the game?

Will a day/night cycle be present and does it affect the AI?

Are there weather conditions or is it "Always sunny in Philadelphia"? Smile

Oh, and you mentioned in the other thread that modders usually limit a game to fit their idea of what is good(maybe bad paraphrasing here), but you are posting on a forum that is known for the JA2 1.13 mod which leaves those decisions up to the player via the Ja2_Options.INI file. This is a great tradition I have implemented in my work as well, giving the options to the player when it comes to any major gameplay changes is important to me, and this community as well. Just wanted to point out the irony, no offense meant.

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296790] Mon, 16 January 2012 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
R@S

Will a day/night cycle be present and does it affect the AI?

Yes. There's special cameo for night missions to make you less visible at night. I'm not sure about the details how the camouflage values are calculated though. Also, some mercs like night missions.

R@S

Are there weather conditions or is it "Always sunny in Philadelphia"? Smile

Not like the day/night cycle. There's some visual weather fx like rain, sand turbulence particles and so on certain maps. So you definitly get different feelings like sunny day, rainy weather, sunny beach, rain forest etc, but it's tied to the maps.

R@S

Oh, and you mentioned in the other thread that modders usually limit a game to fit their idea of what is good(maybe bad paraphrasing here), but you are posting on a forum that is known for the JA2 1.13 mod which leaves those decisions up to the player via the Ja2_Options.INI file. This is a great tradition I have implemented in my work as well, giving the options to the player when it comes to any major gameplay changes is important to me, and this community as well. Just wanted to point out the irony, no offense meant.

Ok, that's probably not the best reasoning then. I didn't specifically mean 1.13, but the average mod. For example, in Civ5's mod browser you see a vast amount of mods that aren't balanced at all.
It's usually not an option for commercial projects though, as there are budget and time restrictions and you cannot implement (and balance!) all possible permutations of those options. For projects made in spare time, you don't have to consider these constraints. You can release a new version from time to time and add new features.

[Updated on: Mon, 16 January 2012 01:13] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296791] Mon, 16 January 2012 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S is currently offline R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
Hehe, thanks again for the IMHO positive answers. And by not answering my binoculars question I suspect this might be something you are discussing internally(and people claim you don't listen to the community Razz )

I also see your point about game balance when giving player options by using different game settings, but I'd like to point out that not all players are equally good when it comes to using tactics in tactical games. I think this is why many of us "veteran" players keep asking for options that will balance the game towards a more difficult setting.

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296838] Tue, 17 January 2012 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun is currently offline SmokinGun

 
Messages:69
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun
Koda
As much as I love a game being replayable, it seems the online forum(!) community often seems to mistake their continued affection to a game with commercial success. This is sadly not true. Most people pay once and that's it. The publisher (even less the developer) can't live from that, as there usually are really just a few sales after some time even if the game is "alive" for ten years (and these sales are for cheap money) due to mods.


You did notice that I was responding in the context of mod support and the context of long-living games not necessarily being successful in a commercial point of view? It's not about making "a quick buck" - especially since we're the developer, not the publisher. Again, I'm not from the publisher so this is an outside view!


Thanks for clarifying Bit Composers rationale for NO Mod Support for JA backin $$. And you did notice this is one of the main Mod centers for the JA franchise that you're trying to promote and sell your rip-off game? Weird huh? So you're hear to tell this online community that after 10 yrs of affection and modding JA that it's not helping you make a buck off your game which bears little to no semblance (name only) to the original series? Wow you really are Clueless.


koda
You continuously use strong words but haven't even seen the final version of the game live, so you're not even able to judge it.


Nope not able to "judge" the final game. As if you have any right to tell me what or how to think. But maybe I'll be able to "persuade" you that your (ie developers) approach toward the community and franchise has been a clusterfck. BC "asked" the community about what they wanted to see as game features when they stole/bought the name of JA. They then proceeded to give everyone the middle finger by completey disregarding that very feedback. Now weeks before release company "spokespeople" start showing up here trying to sell the non-features of the game no one wanted, and you're insulted by the criticism?


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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296843] Tue, 17 January 2012 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
Guy can you read? I said I'm not from Bitcomposer and therefore I could not even clarify their "rationale for NO mod support". Don't rip everything out of context. I was talking about the gaming market as a whole. And as I'm not working at a publisher, this is an outside view.
I'm no public representative but just a coder, and i was only coming here due to christmas holidays, that's it. I had spare time. I had no spare time before. No secret shit involved.
And I've already written that I'm not insulted by your opinion but by the words you use to express it.

[Updated on: Tue, 17 January 2012 09:30] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296844] Tue, 17 January 2012 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CptMoore

 
Messages:224
Registered:March 2009
Koda, your troll detector isn't working.

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296853] Tue, 17 January 2012 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cdudau
No one is ever from Bit Composer it seems, but they all try to sell us ideas? Weird....

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Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296857] Tue, 17 January 2012 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss is currently offline EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:137
Registered:September 2009
tao
No one is ever from Bit Composer it seems, but they all try to sell us ideas? Weird....


Well in all honesty he is from Coreplay not BC...
But we're still talking about his meal ticket here.

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296865] Tue, 17 January 2012 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CptMoore

 
Messages:224
Registered:March 2009
tao
No one is ever from Bit Composer it seems, but they all try to sell us ideas? Weird....

Paranoid troll... love you.



I'm looking forward to plan and go, gonna check out the first lets play coming out for it. I hate the AP system of Jagged Alliance, and loved the 7.62 approach (that implementation sucked in details though).

These head models look hidious and if they didn't change them, they probably reduce alot of the atmosphere... visual style is so important for getting into the game.

One attachement for each merc sounds bad for JA2 fans, especially for JA1.13 fans. But as long as attachements fullfil the role of "classes", I would think that RPG aspect outweights it, gameplay wise. Of course for the atmosphere it sucks, as it is unrealistic.

As long as its better than "Hired Guns: The Jagged Edge" I'm welcoming Back in Action.

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296866] Tue, 17 January 2012 22:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S is currently offline R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
CptMoore

As long as its better than "Hired Guns: The Jagged Edge" I'm welcoming Back in Action.
I agree, but I have something I really love to fall back on in case I get disappointed. And so does the rest of this community. I was digging through some old threads and came across an old AAR I made for 7.62 over a year ago. I think it shows how I want my games to be, from a tactical point of view. I hope you don't mind me sharing it here and that you'll forgive my blatant attempt to show off my work Embarrassed .

Bushwacked Bullwackers AAR

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Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296870] Wed, 18 January 2012 01:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun is currently offline SmokinGun

 
Messages:69
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun
Koda
especially since we're the developer, not the publisher. Again, I'm not from the publisher so this is an outside view!


So as the developer of the JA reloaded game...


koda
Guy can you read? I said I'm not from Bitcomposer and therefore I could not even clarify their "rationale for NO mod support". Don't rip everything out of context. I'm no public representative but just a coder, and i was only coming here due to christmas holidays, that's it.


Yes I can read very well, and I can read between the lines of you being here. Question is do you have personal and professional integrity? So can you please clarify a few things then? You say you write code for the developer, you have inside knowledge about details of the game some of which you can discuss and other details you cannot. You clearly have discussed liking the game and trying to persuade others to like it.

Have or will you receive payment for working on the game? Have you received income directly or indirectly in some way, shape, or form in relation to work you have done on/for the game? Do you stand to benefit financially from work you have done on the game or in any relation to the games success? Will you be receiving income in the future for work on the game? Has whoever you receive a frickin paycheck from received revenue from working on the game or will be receiving revenue from work on the game? Can YOU read and do you actually have the integrity to be honest?

I worked as an independent manufacturers rep for many years. We had our own small companay that represented over a dozen manufacturers. We did not work in-house for the manufacturers but sold their goods to retailers. Whenever we interacted with the general public (potential consumers), or retail employees (selling our product to the public) or buyers (retailers who bought our product to sell) or even out on the street...We ALWAYS told them that we worked (repped) for the companies of the products we were discussing. We felt it was both professional and ethical to clarify our position.

Since you've been very consistent in sidestepping dancing and prancing around having any "official" connection to the game, yet there are things you can't discuss and obviously have inside information to the game, I won't hold my breath that you'll be forthright and honest.

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296880] Wed, 18 January 2012 03:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
What's the point in all this rhetorical questions?
Koda already wrote that he works for BiA's developer (in a professional way, meaning: he gets paid by them) and coded for the game BiA.
And he told us that he is not allowed to comment on every detail about the game. So what?

*shrug*

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Sergeant Major
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296889] Wed, 18 January 2012 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
Unbelievable. And to be "honest": I don't have a clue whether revenues from the sale of the game impact Coreplay's income, as I haven't even seen any contracts. From a general point of view: To my knowledge, when a developer takes a job to develop a game for the publisher (so the publisher owns the franchise etc etc), there are fixed payments. It's mostly independent from sales. If the developer owns the franchise and searches for a publisher, the payment is usually mixed (e.g. until a certain revenue the developer receives nothing extra, after that he gets his share additional to smaller fixed payments). However this is just up to my knowledge and I've never seen a contract in that regard.
I won't comment on your other comments. As Sam_Hotte said, they have no point but just to distract.

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296926] Thu, 19 January 2012 01:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob is currently offline The_Bob

 
Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
http://youtu.be/4QLNsjAk4Ew?hd=1&t=4m13s ugly f***ed up faces are ugly and...

This game is another example of when one shouldn't use an old name for a completely new product. Looks like the only things that actually tie JA2 and JA:BiA are the setting and mercs. Both were done very well in JA2, Arulco being an interesting place with non-trivial sidequests and plenty of cool little secrets, the mercs being diverse and individual, interesting enough to make the player want to try them all. But neither are so great as a concept as to justify creating a whole new and otherwise unrelated game around them. Especially a mediocre looking game that apparently needs all the help it can get.

Both parts are actually quite hard to recreate, and it looks like JA:BiA has already failed at doing mercs - faces are a terrible failure. It would've made a lot of sense to set easier goals for these parts of the game - a smaller setting and less mercs, opting for quality rather then quantity, and more importantly, not having to compete with the predecessor.

Who knows, maybe this could've been a fun indie game otherwise, kinda like Frozen Synapse but with soldiers and different weapons, but instead it had to try and mimic JA2, badly.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296932] Thu, 19 January 2012 07:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CptMoore

 
Messages:224
Registered:March 2009
I disagree Bob, without the JA2 franchise, Back in Action would have probably cost more to build, and had a smaller budget. Then not only you would have to cope with bad looking portraits...

But I agree about those models of the mercs, quality over quantity would have been better. They are probably already bumping their heads for that mistake. Lets hope its moddable and some souls know how to import better looking ones from other games (or even made from scratch).

Thats whats the most disturbing of course.. moddabilty is not part of the core concept, which does make this budget game less valuable, since the chance the cheap parts stay cheap is higher than otherwise, regardless of the modding community.

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296933] Thu, 19 January 2012 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid is currently offline usrbid

 
Messages:1506
Registered:December 2008
Koda
... there are fixed payments. ...


And this is going to answer many other questions posted by other members: "Minimum wage, minimum effort."

Imagine you sit in a cube, over the duration of 12 months you work on about half a dozen different (mini) projects, some of them make it, some get shelved. Your income is mostly a fixed salary with some minor bonus here and there. At this point you are driven by personal preference and work-life balance, what you do when you are not at work. Everything we have seen up to know fits into the above situation.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Newest gameplay video[message #296937] Thu, 19 January 2012 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
Dieter
Koda
... there are fixed payments. ...


And this is going to answer many other questions posted by other members: "Minimum wage, minimum effort."

Imagine you sit in a cube, over the duration of 12 months you work on about half a dozen different (mini) projects, some of them make it, some get shelved. Your income is mostly a fixed salary with some minor bonus here and there. At this point you are driven by personal preference and work-life balance, what you do when you are not at work. Everything we have seen up to know fits into the above situation.


Wrong. I'd go to a different industry then, but as I love gaming I don't! Who says that we at Coreplay had another project active during BiA development (except maybe one small platform conversion which only affected 1-2 guys)? You're spreading lies without any proof, just imagination!
You know what: you guys aren't satisfied when it's a fixed payment, you're not satisfied when it's sale driven, you're not satisfied no matter how it works. With the addition that you have no right at all to demand to know how we are paid!

[Updated on: Thu, 19 January 2012 10:13] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297004] Fri, 20 January 2012 02:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CptMoore

 
Messages:224
Registered:March 2009
Koda:

a troll is someone who posts inflammatory (...) messages

Your troll detector still isn't working.

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297017] Fri, 20 January 2012 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid is currently offline usrbid

 
Messages:1506
Registered:December 2008
Actually I just want to know more about Koda. I didn't expect him to get upset about disclosing how much money he gets. My guess is people in Munich don't like to talk about that. Everyone who knows me, knows that this information is irrelevant to me.

I wanted to know more about the lack of design / planning. I believe most of us are surprised that someone would go through the trouble of acquiring rights to the JA franchise I almost want to say, and then doing such a pathetic job of taking it to the next level. Don't get me wrong, they really kicked a$$ in the graphic department, but have they captured the spirit and let it soar to 2012?

I believe I am not alone when I say that everything we have seen so far feels like their heart is not in it. Everything feels distant, like a bunch of guys were discussing this in a conference room, about what could be and what should be. It doesn't feel like anyone who had something to say spent 100+ hours with the existing game.

But to be honest, even though Koda does not actually answers what people ask him, he tends to answer what he feels passionate about, this also carries information in itself, or to say it differently, imagine he works for you and you put a requirements spec in front of him, what do you think will happen? Will he read it, will he ask questions if something is unclear, or will he do what he thinks feels right?

Dear Lord, I am such an a$$hole sometimes, but then, my wife keeps telling me all the time...

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Sergeant Major

Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297018] Fri, 20 January 2012 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
Hehe yeah I know what a troll is. I'm just not the person that can easily ignore this. It's really hurting to read stuff like this. I already wondered whether I should even respond. But it was just too annoying to read this -*-.

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297019] Fri, 20 January 2012 09:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
Dieter

I believe I am not alone when I say that everything we have seen so far feels like their heart is not in it. Everything feels distant, like a bunch of guys were discussing this in a conference room, about what could be and what should be. It doesn't feel like anyone who had something to say spent 100+ hours with the existing game.

Well different people have different approaches to their work. I myself hate to deliver stuff that's not ready and can't just say "time's over" and go home.

Dieter

But to be honest, even though Koda does not actually answers what people ask him, he tends to answer what he feels passionate about, this also carries information in itself, or to say it differently, imagine he works for you and you put a requirements spec in front of him, what do you think will happen? Will he read it, will he ask questions if something is unclear, or will he do what he thinks feels right?

Depends on how detailed the requirements are. If they're not very detailed, I'd probably do what I think is right and feels right and ask a few questions when they come up. If they're detailed, it happens very often that I'm discussing things intensively with my in-house "customers" to make sure we're doing the right thing - and this does change the requirements quite often.

BTW, I usually work on engine, tools and platform dependent code, that's why I don't have to do so much with game design or game implementation. At the end of projects I usually start working on the game itself. This is usually too late to drastically influence the game design, but I sometimes can influence it a bit (like nerfing medkits a bit, or nerfing sniper effectivity in several ways).

[Updated on: Fri, 20 January 2012 09:42] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297043] Fri, 20 January 2012 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
b15h09 is currently offline b15h09
Messages:4
Registered:January 2012
Hey R@S. My excitement for a JA:BiA led me to their forums, and after reading over the design choices, I was rather appalled. This in turn led me here to the pit, where it seems most of the fellas around here are thinking on similar terms as I am about the game. One old post here mentioned 7.62 BSM having some 'godly combat'. So, I was like, WTF is 7.62 BSM? That led me to the wonderful work you and the team have done. Bought 7.62 about a week ago specifically to check it out. Very pleasant surprise. So, just wanted to say, many thanks for your efforts. Really good stuff.

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Civilian
Re: Newest gameplay video[message #297046] Fri, 20 January 2012 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
EXile 150 Abyss is currently offline EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:137
Registered:September 2009
welcome to the pit b15 Smile

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Sergeant
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