Home » BIT COMPOSER GAMES » Jagged Alliance: Back in Action (by Coreplay) » Demo review of JA2:BiA
Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297775] Fri, 03 February 2012 20:21 Go to next message
Finn is currently offline Finn

 
Messages:85
Registered:October 2008
Location: Sweden
Hey, so I just played through the Tutorial and the Demo mission, and I would like to share my thoughts and observations with you guys.

- First thing I noticed was that the game was hard because it was really difficult to get a grip of the controls (someone said unintuitive and I agree). However once I figured it out it was a piece of cake. This mainly because of the guard-mode-thingamajig. Those of you who played Fallout:Tactics know exactly what I mean. In that game you could set an aggression level where your squaddies would fire if their to-hit-chance went above the threshold you decided. There was also an overwatch function. Let me just say that you can faceroll your way through the first four levels in Fallout:Tactics because of this.

- Second thing I noticed was that (like many others have commented) the terrain screws up your line of fire, and you basically have to move the camera around for a while to find that sweet spot. However it does really account for terrain and obstacles in a nice way and I actually raised an eyebrow when I managed to get a shot off between the trunk and a thick branch of a fallen tree, and the trace was drawn to show the path of the bullet. I think much of it would be solved if they changed the camera, so that you could move it around more, zoom in and out more and with simpler controls.

- Apparently you can't shoot at people if you're lying down and they are standing in front of you. This makes for veeeery dangerous melee as one of Deidranna's soldiers happily trudged through Magic and Lynx using just the butt of his rifle. Basically I regard it as a bug that needs fixing. The guy coming around the corner should obviously have had his feet exploding into a fine pink mist from the two assault rifles opening fire.

- The "plan & go" system is a very nice thought even though it currently makes the game too easy (or at least the demo). I like it a lot, and how you can synchronise the mercs actions to some extent. However I find it badly bugged. Sometimes the mercs will just ignore your orders (such as sneak up to the corner of a house and provide fire support to their comrades) and sit on their asses while their friends are being made into swiss cheese.

- It's annoying that you can't climb houses or blow things up on other places than pre-determined spots. But not only that. One of the biggest issues I have with JA2 is still abscent in BiA: You still can't climb in and out through windows. Seriously! How hard can it be? The lack of bullet tracers is a non-issue in my opinion as it just gives you too much information.

There are many more things to say about the demo of "Jagged Alliance 2: Back in Action", but I'll stop here with one more thing in closing:

"Jagged Alliance 2: Back in Action" feels flat. The socialising, constant bickering or flirting between the mercs, their comments on everyday things, and their reactions to each other's comments. All abscent, with the exception of one comment from Fidel and one from Lynx. It feels bland and boring, and feels like it's trying to be more serious. Lynx seems particularly bitter when he comments on a kill with "I used to make sick jokes about that, but I've seen too many friends die that way. It's not funny anymore." Basically the feel of JA2 is not there and I'm glad they released the demo so I don't waste money on this.

[Updated on: Fri, 03 February 2012 20:28] by Moderator

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297781] Fri, 03 February 2012 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss is currently offline EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:137
Registered:September 2009
I agree with your points.

I didn't even use the P&G system and got through it.

To add to the list


  • When the enemy has dug in options are very limited.
  • Sneaking is rubbish.
  • AI seems to have omnipotence cheat.
  • Grenades... WTF are they good for?

And I want my Turn Based BACK!!! :lostwings:

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Sergeant
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297783] Sat, 04 February 2012 00:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hanakin is currently offline Hanakin

 
Messages:35
Registered:June 2008
Location: Czech Rep.
I completely agree with your posts, except that I don't consider 'plan and go' a good system. The demo was pure hell to play. And the controls were just crap.

During the tutorial I noticed that in order to use a key to unlock a door, you had to put it in one of your merc's slots - in JA2 mercs just use the right key on their own, don't they? This could potentially give you a headache if your merc collected 10+ identical keys. I guess you'd have to try them one by one...

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Private 1st Class
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297784] Sat, 04 February 2012 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Finn is currently offline Finn

 
Messages:85
Registered:October 2008
Location: Sweden
Hanakin
I completely agree with your posts, except that I don't consider 'plan and go' a good system. The demo was pure hell to play. And the controls were just crap.

During the tutorial I noticed that in order to use a key to unlock a door, you had to put it in one of your merc's slots - in JA2 mercs just use the right key on their own, don't they? This could potentially give you a headache if your merc collected 10+ identical keys. I guess you'd have to try them one by one...


I meant the "plan & go" was a good idea. It could be good if executed right.

That the mercs have to try the keys one by one would actually be more realistic in my opinion. Smile

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297785] Sat, 04 February 2012 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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Finn
That the mercs have to try the keys one by one would actually be more realistic in my opinion. Smile
Maybe. It is mindless make-work to f*** with the player though. If I tell a merc to unlock that door, I expect the minimal intelligence feat of trying one key after the other until one fits or all are tried. Allocate a certain chunk of time per key and add the option to try a certain key manually if you know that's the one and don't want to wait. Tada - well rounded system.

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Captain

Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297790] Sat, 04 February 2012 02:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Finn is currently offline Finn

 
Messages:85
Registered:October 2008
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DepressivesBrot
Finn
That the mercs have to try the keys one by one would actually be more realistic in my opinion. Smile
Maybe. It is mindless make-work to f*** with the player though. If I tell a merc to unlock that door, I expect the minimal intelligence feat of trying one key after the other until one fits or all are tried. Allocate a certain chunk of time per key and add the option to try a certain key manually if you know that's the one and don't want to wait. Tada - well rounded system.


Indeed.

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297813] Sat, 04 February 2012 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrgray is currently offline mrgray
Messages:4
Registered:December 2011
Hanakin
I don't consider 'plan and go' a good system.

Try to check all checkboxes in Options->Gameplay, game will pause after every important situation like no order\enemy killed\merc wounded. After that game actually feels like turn based and P&G show its maximum potential. However with no FoW so powerfull sistem makes a game so easy.
And sneaking actually works, try to use Magic with silenced Glock to clear some lone guards. And i think that melee is good as it is in demo, u cant actually shot enemies, who stubing you and it crates a very interesting potential for melee specialists.
After mastering P$G demo feels like JA2 for me (simplified and casual of course), but removed Fog of War is "You shall not pass" point for me.

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Civilian
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297818] Sat, 04 February 2012 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fozzie is currently offline Fozzie

 
Messages:183
Registered:April 2010
Location: Germany
One should really distinguish between "Plan & Go" and just "Smart Pause". The catch about P&G is the chaining and intertwining of orders, and I for my part in the whole demo didn't run into a single situation where this would have been remotely helpful, let alone necessary. It mostly just overcomplicated things and was prone to a lot of mistakes due to the sloppy controls. So when I actually tried using it, I spent more time deleting misplaced orders than actually "planning". It also would only make sense when enemies are very near by, but not aware of your mercs and thus not moving. But that never happened, once even a single enemy moves and/or changes his facing, the whole set of commands goes down the crapper.

About the problem with "point blank" encounters I noticed two game mechanics that seem to rule each other out, resulting in that "catatonic" behaviour of mercs:

1) When an enemy is close enough and you issue an order to attack, your merc doesn't shoot, but stands up (i.e. changes his stance) and clubs the enemy over the head with the butt of his rifle.

2) The "Guard Mode" forces the mercs to "hold their ground" (i.e. keep their stance).

So if an enemy is too close and your merc is crouching/lying in Guard Mode, rule 1) prevents him from shooting, cause it wants him to stand up and go into melee, but rule 2) doesn't allow him to stand up, rendering him unable to attack in melee at the same time.

I can also agree about the uselessness of grenades. They just take ages to explode after being thrown, every enemy in the vicinity has already legged it to a safe distance, once it finally goes off. I guess there might be some situations where you could exploit this, like throwing a grenade from one side into a room to scare them off to the other side where the rest of your squad sits in waiting outside the door to shoot them. But I don't think that was the idea behind grenades...

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Staff Sergeant
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297828] Sat, 04 February 2012 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrgray is currently offline mrgray
Messages:4
Registered:December 2011
Fozzie
The catch about P&G is the chaining and intertwining of orders, and I for my part in the whole demo didn't run into a single situation where this would have been remotely helpful, let alone necessary.

It works great in CQB, pretty usefull in hard exterior with alot of cover.

Fozzie
So when I actually tried using it, I spent more time deleting misplaced orders than actually "planning".

Its all about lack of experiense in a game, not a game fault.

Fozzie

1) When an enemy ...
2) The "Guard Mode" ...


You can always try to run away from enemy with knife and let other put of the team shoot him. It was a JA2 issue, that u can shoot into head with 100% acc enemy , who stubing you, i'd like to see someone doing such thing in real life lol, so imho that part of a game is fine. And Guard mode is pretty useless, i dont see any point in using it. Pause works fine with all autopause options checked.

Actually a game is not so bad, only reason because i will not buy it because of lack of FoW (finished demo mission 3 times).

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Civilian
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297829] Sat, 04 February 2012 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Finn is currently offline Finn

 
Messages:85
Registered:October 2008
Location: Sweden
mrgray
And i think that melee is good as it is in demo, u cant actually shot enemies, who stubing you and it crates a very interesting potential for melee specialists.


You should be able to shoot people that approaches. I tried the demo again yesterday and three of my four mercs were wiped as they sat kneeling with their guns on full auto pointed at a door when they got swarmed by four soldiers they knew were coming, through that very door.

Fozzie
About the problem with "point blank" encounters I noticed two game mechanics that seem to rule each other out, resulting in that "catatonic" behaviour of mercs:

1) When an enemy is close enough and you issue an order to attack, your merc doesn't shoot, but stands up (i.e. changes his stance) and clubs the enemy over the head with the butt of his rifle.

2) The "Guard Mode" forces the mercs to "hold their ground" (i.e. keep their stance).

So if an enemy is too close and your merc is crouching/lying in Guard Mode, rule 1) prevents him from shooting, cause it wants him to stand up and go into melee, but rule 2) doesn't allow him to stand up, rendering him unable to attack in melee at the same time.


Ah, that explains it. Because I've had them respond and stand up to fight in melee as well on the rare occasion I turn off guard mode. Bug confirmed.

Quote:
I can also agree about the uselessness of grenades. They just take ages to explode after being thrown, every enemy in the vicinity has already legged it to a safe distance, once it finally goes off. I guess there might be some situations where you could exploit this, like throwing a grenade from one side into a room to scare them off to the other side where the rest of your squad sits in waiting outside the door to shoot them. But I don't think that was the idea behind grenades...


In my experience the grenades in the game have a very large blast radius (larger than the actual explosion) and frag grenades often hit people with shrapnel quite far away, like in reality. Gas grenades are used for area denial, while tear gas and flashbangs are used to flush out room campers (pop a couple of flashbangs in the room and then storm it). In this sense I actually think the grenades work well and realistically. My only issue is that you can't throw them very far, but that may be due to the mercs that was chosen for me in the demo. And the time they take to explode is just right. Count the seconds. Wink It's normal to lose sense of time in real time when action starts. The human brain works like that, and a second is a looong time for a brain.

Ok, two more observations of the demo:

I see a lot of Fallout-inspiration in the demo. Does anyone know if the designers had anything to do with Fallout:Tactics for example at some point? What I'm thinking about are the numerous items you can find. Sure you can eat many of them but some I just don't see a use for. Basically when my mercs started finding all these items I just thought "..just like the old Fallout games.."

The "plan & go" system has one big flaw: You can't read the terrain right. In old JA2 you had to move carefully one step at a time and check your angles at every step, like sneak up to a rock (too high to shoot over prone), sit up (now able to shoot over but enemy instead shielded by a trashcan), turn left and lie down to fire (another enemy shows up), and so on. With the "plan & go" system you que several commands based on you having read the terrain correctly which is hard because of the limitations, primarily of the camera angle. Like for example I have my mercs crawl prone behind a low ridge, but apparently there was no ridge and the enemies open up on them. This turns it into a reflex workout when you sit on the edge of your seat ready to "PRESS SPACE! PRESS SPACE! STOP! GO BACK! SHOOT! DO SOMETHING! DON'T JUST CRAWL AROUND IN YOUR OWN BLOOD! YOU'RE GETTING SHOT! STOP! PRESS SPACE!" and that's a flaw.

mrgray
You can always try to run away from enemy with knife and let other put of the team shoot him.


Yeah, I guess you shouldn't trust your mercs to act rationally. Just take control of them instead. "No dude. You're getting rifle butted. It's time to skedaddle".

mrgray
It was a JA2 issue, that u can shoot into head with 100% acc enemy , who stubing you, i'd like to see someone doing such thing in real life lol, so imho that part of a game is fine.


Yeah, because shooting someone in the head with 100% accuracy when they're standing beside you and you're prone is the same thing as not reacting when you're guarding a door with a fully automatic assault rifle and enemies that you are expecting because you heard them coming enter through that same door. No dude. That is clearly bugged.

mrgray
And Guard mode is pretty useless, i dont see any point in using it. Pause works fine with all autopause options checked.


You can't seriously argue that it's not bugged because it's useless and there's no point in using it.

- "Damn, my car broke down."

- "Meh, cars are useless. All they do is ruin the environment. Buy shoes and walk instead."

Buying shoes doesn't fix the car.

[Updated on: Sat, 04 February 2012 14:44] by Moderator

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297833] Sat, 04 February 2012 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CptMoore

 
Messages:224
Registered:March 2009
Biggest problem so far is the save/load game stuff.. i saved with my mercs unseen. I loaded and suddenly half of the enemy groups sees my mercs.

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297842] Sat, 04 February 2012 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrgray is currently offline mrgray
Messages:4
Registered:December 2011
Finn

You can't seriously argue that it's not bugged because it's useless and there's no point in using it.

I say nothing about bugged guard mode or not, i just dont care. All my points are about melee.

Finn

Yeah, because shooting someone in the head with 100% accuracy when they're standing beside you...

Melee is not about standing beside each outher, you know?

About guarding a door - order a merc to shoot an enemy bofore he enter a door (give him like 5 or more order to shoot), even if the enemy out of merc LoS. Merc will say few times something about "Cant do this bla bla" and when enemy appears in a door will shoot him. Its my tip to solve a problem, its not bug, just crude game mechanics. Merc must spend some time before shoot (it shown near hit chance), thats why guard didnt work here - spot, shoot time, shot, but if u use my way for this - shoot time already done, if you lucky of course. Anyway it must be patched (like no shoottime in guard mode).

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Civilian
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297848] Sat, 04 February 2012 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hanakin is currently offline Hanakin

 
Messages:35
Registered:June 2008
Location: Czech Rep.
Finn
The "plan & go" system has one big flaw: You can't read the terrain right. In old JA2 you had to move carefully one step at a time and check your angles at every step, like sneak up to a rock (too high to shoot over prone), sit up (now able to shoot over but enemy instead shielded by a trashcan), turn left and lie down to fire (another enemy shows up), and so on. With the "plan & go" system you que several commands based on you having read the terrain correctly which is hard because of the limitations, primarily of the camera angle. Like for example I have my mercs crawl prone behind a low ridge, but apparently there was no ridge and the enemies open up on them. This turns it into a reflex workout when you sit on the edge of your seat ready to "PRESS SPACE! PRESS SPACE! STOP! GO BACK! SHOOT! DO SOMETHING! DON'T JUST CRAWL AROUND IN YOUR OWN BLOOD! YOU'RE GETTING SHOT! STOP! PRESS SPACE!" and that's a flaw.

Yeah, not being able to read the terrain correctly was an issue for me too. I thought my mercs were behind cover when they were not and enemies were perfectly safe when they should've been exposed. The system seemed broken to me, but those are just my two cents.

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297853] Sat, 04 February 2012 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Finn is currently offline Finn

 
Messages:85
Registered:October 2008
Location: Sweden
mrgray
Finn

You can't seriously argue that it's not bugged because it's useless and there's no point in using it.

I say nothing about bugged guard mode or not, i just dont care. All my points are about melee.

Finn

Yeah, because shooting someone in the head with 100% accuracy when they're standing beside you...

Melee is not about standing beside each outher, you know?

About guarding a door - order a merc to shoot an enemy bofore he enter a door (give him like 5 or more order to shoot), even if the enemy out of merc LoS. Merc will say few times something about "Cant do this bla bla" and when enemy appears in a door will shoot him. Its my tip to solve a problem, its not bug, just crude game mechanics. Merc must spend some time before shoot (it shown near hit chance), thats why guard didnt work here - spot, shoot time, shot, but if u use my way for this - shoot time already done, if you lucky of course. Anyway it must be patched (like no shoottime in guard mode).


Well no offense but you clearly don't get my point so there's really no point in continuing this discussion.

[Updated on: Sat, 04 February 2012 21:54] by Moderator

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297854] Sat, 04 February 2012 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flettner is currently offline Flettner

 
Messages:59
Registered:April 2006
For the last several weeks I've been trying to convince myself that P & G could be a decent system, that abandoning TBC wasn't necessarily a disastrous move, that the crap art, animation and countless reductions in tactical and strategic play wouldn't result in a horrible gaming experience. I was hoping for a mindless shooter that had some personality and mimicked JA2's RPG like qualities. I was horribly wrong on all counts.

I've spent about three hours of highly tedious and frustrating hours on the JA2: BIA demo and I've concluded that it's simply the worst squad level combat game I've ever seen. The controls and interface are bordering on unusable. I suppose that if I invested enough time I could eventually get proficient in using the interface but the endless camera diddling simply takes any joy out of the game. What JA2: BIA is about is over coming a badly designed interface and getting the camera work exactly right and that simply is tedious.

The P & G system is cumbersome to use and basically useless.

The lack of climbing options, terrain errors, LoS errors, cover errors and an unworkable melee system combined with the horrid controls makes for the single worst gaming experience I've ever had.

The animation work is worse then JA2 ever was and the graphics far inferior to 7.62/E5/E6/Hired Guns which wouldn't be an issue to me if everything else worked properly. More troubling is that the art is simply crap which totally kills the mood. The RPG elements are almost non-existent which is something I actually hoped would work out as I hadn't heard any bad news about that prior to the demo coming out.

To say that JA2: BIA isn't at all like JA2 is a bit like saying that having cancer may be less then edifying.

What this demo has shown is that JA2: BIA is not just too expensive at any price but that even if it was free it's not worth the space on my hard drive nor any of my time.

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Corporal
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297886] Sun, 05 February 2012 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fozzie is currently offline Fozzie

 
Messages:183
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mrgray
Fozzie
So when I actually tried using it, I spent more time deleting misplaced orders than actually "planning".

Its all about lack of experiense in a game, not a game fault.

That's actually not how I meant it. What I was trying to say is that the controls are really imprecise. It's nigh impossible to "choose" a merc on the actual game screen. OK, you just stick to targetting them via the portraits, but it's just an example of how flawed the controls are. And a situation where you can't circumvent that issue is when you want your merc to stay put but face another direction. Most of the time you end up deleting unwanted movement orders over and over until you hit the right spot where to hold down the right mouse button. Cause a change of the cursor arrow doesn't guarantee that you got it right. You can also nearly spend minutes trying to order head shots when several enemies are around, cause there sometimes seems to be like a 2x2 pixels area to place the cursor for the game to correctly recognize the body part you want to aim at.

Or you ordered all of them to advance, but between the points of origin and destination, there's a rather narrow spot like a door, or a walkway, or a piece of furniture next to a wall, or a couple of trees, and you can watch them all share a nice Marx Brothers moment when they all get stuck there. Pathfinding of Command & Conquer harvesters was better...

And I know, pathfinding in JA2 wasn't that brilliant, either - but that should be the main point of a re-something (-make, -imagining, -boot, pick one), to IMPROVE on the stuff that was flawed in the original. But instead, they just removed most of the features without putting in anything new instead.

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Staff Sergeant
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297900] Sun, 05 February 2012 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lamurt is currently offline lamurt

 
Messages:52
Registered:July 2008

problem with the game is it's using Jagged Alliance name. if it had another name instead, it would have been a nice game actually...

whether or not the devs are ill intended, that i dunno - but i know i will not be paying them and continue with ja2 as usual.

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Corporal
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297914] Sun, 05 February 2012 20:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Siresmithnj is currently offline Siresmithnj

 
Messages:17
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Location: NY
m8rt
problem with the game is it's using Jagged Alliance name. if it had another name instead, it would have been a nice game actually...

whether or not the devs are ill intended, that i dunno - but i know i will not be paying them and continue with ja2 as usual.


I definitely agree with this statement.

The demo had some problems, but if I do not consider this a remake of JA I had some fun playing the demo.

I will also point blank say that, you will never find the motivation, nor the dedication that the fans have for JA in a company, not since we lost Sirtech.
I do not believe there will ever be a commercial product full of the pride, sweat, tears and life blood that you see in 1.13 or the other mods here on Bears Pit.

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Private
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297925] Sun, 05 February 2012 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flettner is currently offline Flettner

 
Messages:59
Registered:April 2006
m8rt
problem with the game is it's using Jagged Alliance name. if it had another name instead, it would have been a nice game actually...

whether or not the devs are ill intended, that i dunno - but i know i will not be paying them and continue with ja2 as usual.

I suppose I'd say that targeting via portraits is a horrible idea no matter what a game is called. The problem isn't just that JA2:BiA isn't a JA game but that it's bad game no matter how it's labeled. If the interface wasn't such a pain to use and the tactical limitations weren't so severe it could, theoretically, be a decent third person shooter but the lack of a fog of war means that it would still be a fairly mindless exercise in blasting stuff. As it is it's simply a tedious mess that simply doesn't deserve hard drive space no matter what it's marketed as.

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Corporal
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297938] Mon, 06 February 2012 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Finn is currently offline Finn

 
Messages:85
Registered:October 2008
Location: Sweden
Flettner
m8rt
problem with the game is it's using Jagged Alliance name. if it had another name instead, it would have been a nice game actually...

whether or not the devs are ill intended, that i dunno - but i know i will not be paying them and continue with ja2 as usual.

I suppose I'd say that targeting via portraits is a horrible idea no matter what a game is called. The problem isn't just that JA2:BiA isn't a JA game but that it's bad game no matter how it's labeled. If the interface wasn't such a pain to use and the tactical limitations weren't so severe it could, theoretically, be a decent third person shooter but the lack of a fog of war means that it would still be a fairly mindless exercise in blasting stuff. As it is it's simply a tedious mess that simply doesn't deserve hard drive space no matter what it's marketed as.


This is indeed a bad game no matter what you call it. It's unfinished.

Would you buy a car that's not finished?

- "Yeah we might send you the tires later. Just drive on the rims for now."

Would you buy a car that's broken?

- "Yeah the engine is shot, but just get a friend to push you to work."

If you would then I have a car to sell you.

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297939] Mon, 06 February 2012 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3692
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Also: "Yeah, it's a scrap heap, but you may find someone who pimps it for free" (that modders-will-save-it attitude some have)

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Captain

Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297967] Mon, 06 February 2012 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
1Samildanach

 
Messages:56
Registered:February 2009
Location: Southern hemisphere
"The petrol tank was rusted out, so we upgraded it to a plastic bag, no extra charge! Not only that, we also replaced the threadbare seat covers with 100% pure hemp fabric, nice and coarse to help keep you in your seat! But wait, there's more! We've repainted that faded black paintwork with an all-new pastel green job, complete with bright red racing stripes!"


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[Updated on: Mon, 06 February 2012 13:08] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297968] Mon, 06 February 2012 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MisterMoe is currently offline MisterMoe

 
Messages:38
Registered:February 2011
mrgray: Are you affiliated with the Back in Action Developer/Publisher team?

I came to the same conclusion after the playing the demo, I'm not gonna play the full game, after beating the demo in realtime with just lynx and his misspelled dragunov and new voice, constantly remained that he used to make a sick joke about killing and hes sick of it blalbla

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297995] Mon, 06 February 2012 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wasp is currently offline wasp

 
Messages:6
Registered:February 2004
After playing the demo of BIA . I was shocked..I hoped that ppl that want to create the new JA understanded that the game HAS one of the best devoted ppl playing on it.Its a turn based game havent they saw that?The game was a fail for me.A realtime game are you kidding me.no sorry another failure.
So my only hope is the 1.14 ( in the future) patch which will make our game better and better since companies dosent seem to get it.

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Private
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #297998] Mon, 06 February 2012 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Omega is currently offline Omega

 
Messages:63
Registered:January 2004
Location: Peterborough, England

Their forums are getting bombed with demands for FOW, better camera manipulation, AI, shooting mechanics, bullet physics, being able to place C4 anywhere we want, as well as a ton of other things, and considering the demo was from a build on the 24th of January it doesn't look like anything is going to change...

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Corporal
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #298004] Tue, 07 February 2012 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
parachute is currently offline parachute

 
Messages:13
Registered:October 2007
demo review: the plan and go system is inferior (UI-wise) to frozen synapse, you can't switch the order of commands for example.
Auto-pause didn't work.

Basically the whole p&g is a glorified 1995-RTS-shiftclick-command-queue with graphics. About as complex as Baldur's Gate combat.

So now we are playing "Baldurs Gate: Dragon Age: Jagged Alliance" and because we are so stupid we can see who has what kind of commands before we hit space to watch the adventure (place C4 H E R E, talk for quest H E R E, secret weapon trader H E R E etc.)

Somebody creating something remotely as ambitious as Jagged Alliance (huge story, huge voice acting, huge selection of strategies, intelligent gameplay)

[Updated on: Tue, 07 February 2012 01:02] by Moderator

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Private
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #298006] Tue, 07 February 2012 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3692
Registered:July 2009
parachute
Oh, and adding a Deagle and Klack is not going to make the friends too. You wouldn't like a fantasy game with wissards, or dworfs would you?
Yupp. If there really are issues with using real names, go the whole way and make up a completely new line of manufacturers and weapons. Heck, even 'ACME Combat Rifle' and 'Arulco Defense Advanced Assault Rifle' would be better than this 'Druganoff' sh*t.

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Captain

Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #298010] Tue, 07 February 2012 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal is currently offline Peal

 
Messages:265
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
The famous german gaming magazine "PC-Games" gave JA BIA an overall score of 66% out of 100%.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #298014] Tue, 07 February 2012 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax is currently offline Slax

 
Messages:1430
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Cowboy, Hartman, Joker, Stanley. Oh boy, the wit of these hacks.
This is just getting more and more sad. Put this bleeding animal down already.

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Sergeant Major
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #298038] Tue, 07 February 2012 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wasp is currently offline wasp

 
Messages:6
Registered:February 2004
Ye i saw their forums and posted my short opinion there also.How can you ignore the ppl that still plays JA 2 and create a rts with a pause button....You wont get anyone to buy the game..Maybe next company will understand.This will be worst that jagged edge..

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #298058] Tue, 07 February 2012 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Narva is currently offline Narva

 
Messages:6
Registered:April 2009
Downloaded the demo and gave it whirl few minutes ago.

My first impression - whats wrong the camera? I cannot tilt it so I can see further than 5-6 meters in front of my merc. I can zoom out to see more of the surrounding area but not enough (and this is not an elegant solution). Generally came controls feel clunky.

Second thing I noticed - Sometimes the weapon carries the right name sometimes it doesn't. This is immersion breaker for me.

One more thing : a grenade is thrown - and before the merc has started throwing animation - the guys run away from the impact point. That is a serious bug in my book. I could have understood if they run away when they see it coming (in air) or when it has landed but this is ridiculous.

I haven't played much past tutorial and few minutes of first mission so it is way too early to tell but I feel I will not be buying this one.

It doesn't give me that feeling of excitement I have when I start a good game and my instincts are rarely wrong about these things.

[Updated on: Tue, 07 February 2012 18:41] by Moderator

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA[message #298063] Tue, 07 February 2012 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Omega is currently offline Omega

 
Messages:63
Registered:January 2004
Location: Peterborough, England

I've played through the demo several times, and I'm afraid all your fears are true, this game that we hoped might be our next JA will be utter shite..

On the plus side we can hope that Bitcomposer will make a massive loss on the game and then we can all go over to their forums and point and laugh and say "haha...we told you so" NOW GIVE US THE SOURCE CODE BITCHES!!


Or at least that would be nice...

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Corporal
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA (My pennies on the demo)[message #298074] Tue, 07 February 2012 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Skinner is currently offline Skinner

 
Messages:5
Registered:January 2002
I Couldn't agree more with most of what I've seen here. I have only had this demo for a couple of days now so probably only spent about 4-5 hours playing it. My evaluation. so far: Clunky camera controls, p&g should actually stand for pause n go (The less orders u give your mercs the better they seem to perform.) As far as misreading the terrain goes : I found that zooming in all the way on your chosen shooter before giving commands then panning around at the targets gives the best results, manually moving them into place is a must as well. So far I've had Lynxx and Magic snipe every enemy from the checkpoint southwest of the lab(Danny and Fidel just popping off a few shots here and there) and all the guys that hang -out in and patrol the driveway (without anyone on the team getting wounded.) Other things I have noticed: There doesn't seem to be any quick save feature, and no controls as in JA2 to "look" or back-step.

The only way the full game ends up on my box is if I find it in a cut-out bin for $5-$10 in a few months (Unless it turns out to be even crappier then what I've seen so far.) Oh yea, ditto for whoever pointed out the uselessness of grenades ( I get the feeling they are just useful for getting some enemy attention.) :exactly:

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA (My pennies on the demo)[message #298077] Tue, 07 February 2012 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wasp is currently offline wasp

 
Messages:6
Registered:February 2004
Cant seem to understand companies.They see that a LOT of ppl are still playing a true turn based strategy.They have develop it and keep doing it plus the mods and fun.And they decide to release the next of ja focusing on the old ppl that still play the "old" one , how can you target the old ppl with a rts with crappy controls and several things missing from it compared to ja 2.How they can get new ppl playing it since the name goes to TBS..
As i said lets hope for more mods and new patches cause we are going to wait several years until another company will try their chances..
Ill keep playing so ..

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Private
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA (My pennies on the demo)[message #298094] Wed, 08 February 2012 00:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burns is currently offline Burns

 
Messages:11
Registered:January 2012
I have my misgivings but I withhold judgment for now mostly because it also took JA2 half a decade to become good.

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Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA (My pennies on the demo)[message #298102] Wed, 08 February 2012 03:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Finn is currently offline Finn

 
Messages:85
Registered:October 2008
Location: Sweden
Burns
I have my misgivings but I withhold judgment for now mostly because it also took JA2 half a decade to become good.


I call bs. I recall a former friend and I playing through the demo of JA2. It was awesome. And so was the game, and is still.

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA (My pennies on the demo)[message #298109] Wed, 08 February 2012 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fozzie is currently offline Fozzie

 
Messages:183
Registered:April 2010
Location: Germany
Yes, it is also actually kind of unfair from people defending BiA to turn to the argument "the original was flawed on release, itself".
Of course, it was. But as I already posted some way above, removing those flaws and tapping out the full potential of features formerly not fully developed should be, what a remake is all about in the first place.
It's also about the sense of improvement. When JA1 was around, I really liked it. Then the sequel came, improving on about every single aspect - and I loved it. Then I stumbled upon the 1.13 mod, that did it again: improved on everything and feels more like a remake than BiA. This time, there is no improvement, at least not how I see it.

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Staff Sergeant
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA (My pennies on the demo)[message #298121] Wed, 08 February 2012 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wasp is currently offline wasp

 
Messages:6
Registered:February 2004
This time, there is no improvement, at least not how I see it.
I totally agree with that

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Private
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA (My pennies on the demo)[message #298131] Wed, 08 February 2012 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dzsono is currently offline Dzsono

 
Messages:29
Registered:January 2008
Location: Hungary
I think this has the potential to be a good game. If we just pretend that Jagged Alliance isn't written at the top of the box, then I think this will be quite enjoyable after a couple of patches. It shouldn't be too hard, almost nothing about the game reminded me of JA2. Also, many of us enjoyed playing The Fall - Last Days of Gaia. If we can enjoy that game, we can enjoy this!

Remember, 1.13 is absolutely exquisite. Nothing could ever live up to it, so just enjoy BiA for what it is!

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Private 1st Class
Re: Demo review of JA2:BiA (My pennies on the demo)[message #298150] Wed, 08 February 2012 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Fozzie is currently offline Fozzie

 
Messages:183
Registered:April 2010
Location: Germany
When I tried The Fall, once, I don't think I even spent as much time with it as with the BiA demo, even the fully patched "Gold" version was pretty much unplayable for my taste. But I can see how those two would appeal to the same audience - just not to me...

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Staff Sergeant
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