Home » BIT COMPOSER GAMES » Jagged Alliance: Back in Action (by Coreplay) » One question to those who played release: FOW?
One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298414] Fri, 10 February 2012 13:51 Go to next message
Istrebitel is currently offline Istrebitel

 
Messages:212
Registered:December 2009
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Was fog of war implemented, or do you see every enemy on the map as in preview versions?

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298415] Fri, 10 February 2012 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dethica is currently offline dethica

 
Messages:43
Registered:September 2009
no fog of war. not now atleast.

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Corporal
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298417] Fri, 10 February 2012 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arquebus is currently offline Arquebus

 
Messages:68
Registered:June 2008
Location: Oslo Norway
The US is backing your insurrection with Drone coverage so no fog of war.

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Corporal
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298419] Fri, 10 February 2012 14:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
Sure, drones with advanced life sign detectors that even work through bunker roofs ... try harder.

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Captain

Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298421] Fri, 10 February 2012 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arquebus is currently offline Arquebus

 
Messages:68
Registered:June 2008
Location: Oslo Norway
You just aren't paranoid enough Smile

They also have a car that runs on water. Water man!

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Corporal
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298423] Fri, 10 February 2012 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Istrebitel is currently offline Istrebitel

 
Messages:212
Registered:December 2009
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Thanks, that saved me some money. Until they introduce FOW i'm not even trying a pirate version of that game...

Eh... What else to say. Long live 1.13 developers!

PS: It amazes me how can a paid company of professionals do a job worser than a bunch of people who code an open source project in their spare time. I mean, no IMP, no FOW, ugliest faces ever (well maybe that XCOM remake game had even more ugly faces, personal preference...), ugly interface, ugly inventory, bugs...

PPS: Why even call this JA? JA one, JA ONE, that old DOS game had BETTER CHARACTER PORTRAITS AND BETTER INTERFACE OMFG! Had a fog of war too. Was bug free on release.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 February 2012 14:25] by Moderator

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298429] Fri, 10 February 2012 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burns is currently offline Burns

 
Messages:11
Registered:January 2012
You call it JA because you BUY the rights to the name.

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Private
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298497] Fri, 10 February 2012 22:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Istrebitel is currently offline Istrebitel

 
Messages:212
Registered:December 2009
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Just talked to a friend. Apparently, there is even more to this:
- Mercs randomly just wont want to be hired by you. No reason, start of the game, 0 mercs on your team yet. They just tell you "i dislike you as a comander"
- You cannot carry a loaded weapon! If you wanna switch to another gun, you'll have to load it first. Very fun during combat. The only weapon that can be loaded is your main hand weapon and putting a weapon in a bag unloads it automatically

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298499] Fri, 10 February 2012 23:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Yes this weapon cannot be stored loaded is weird. But even more weird: If you unequip every weapon preparing for unarmed close combat (boxing) in planning mode - there are automatically two tasks assigned to your command qeue - "changing weapon" and "reload" ....

[Updated on: Fri, 10 February 2012 23:21] by Moderator

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Sergeant Major
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298500] Fri, 10 February 2012 23:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
Must be one of the most retarded 'design decision' in a game that isn't exactly noted for a lack thereof. It nullifies the very concept of a backup gun.
http://www.evergreensearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/jackie-chan-wtf.png

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Captain

Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298531] Sat, 11 February 2012 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fozzie is currently offline Fozzie

 
Messages:183
Registered:April 2010
Location: Germany
I think the concept of a side arm is already made superfluous by the lack of FoW. They are for occasions when an enemy appears unexpected. Now, how would that ever happen in BiA?

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Staff Sergeant
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298537] Sat, 11 February 2012 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Istrebitel is currently offline Istrebitel

 
Messages:212
Registered:December 2009
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
For example, your sniper vs two targets, distand and close. You have three shots to take at distant target until close target gets sight to shoot on you. Would you just waste those three shots and wait for the close target to come by? Thats what you need backup gun in any game, even w/o FOW.

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298541] Sat, 11 February 2012 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fozzie is currently offline Fozzie

 
Messages:183
Registered:April 2010
Location: Germany
No, you just need a second soldier with a burst-capable assault rifle in guard mode lying next to the sniper.

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Staff Sergeant
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298550] Sat, 11 February 2012 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Koda is currently offline Koda

 
Messages:40
Registered:December 2011
Quote:
- Mercs randomly just wont want to be hired by you. No reason, start of the game, 0 mercs on your team yet. They just tell you "i dislike you as a comander"

It's not random. You just haven't progressed far enough, so some early and most later mercs don't want to join you as inexperienced commander. That's RPG you missed, isn't it?

Oh: and you might sometimes be able to hire a merc that initially doesn't want to join by hiring a friend of him first.

[Updated on: Sat, 11 February 2012 11:28] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298656] Sat, 11 February 2012 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flettner is currently offline Flettner

 
Messages:59
Registered:April 2006
Koda
Quote:
- Mercs randomly just wont want to be hired by you. No reason, start of the game, 0 mercs on your team yet. They just tell you "i dislike you as a comander"

It's not random. You just haven't progressed far enough, so some early and most later mercs don't want to join you as inexperienced commander. That's RPG you missed, isn't it?

Oh: and you might sometimes be able to hire a merc that initially doesn't want to join by hiring a friend of him first.

That isn't much of an RPG element at all. In part that isn't surprising since you don't have an IMP merc you don't have an in game PC so there really isn't a commander. In JA2 mercs worked well with some and refused to work with others but you could still employ them by deploying conflicting mercs in different sectors. The JA way of doing it was more interesting and allowed the various personality traits of the mercs to come to the forefront. Mercs simply refusing to work for you till your rep reaches some undisclosed level is a pretty poor substitute and simply another the indication the RPG elements of JA2 are nearly non existent in BiA.

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Corporal
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298676] Sun, 12 February 2012 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
1Samildanach

 
Messages:56
Registered:February 2009
Location: Southern hemisphere
Koda
It's not random. You just haven't progressed far enough, so some early and most later mercs don't want to join you as inexperienced commander. That's RPG you missed, isn't it?

Oh: and you might sometimes be able to hire a merc that initially doesn't want to join by hiring a friend of him first.

It may not be random, but it obviously doesn't sufficient feedback. "I don't like putting my life in the hands of inexperienced CO's. Call me when you've got a reputation" would work fine, but "i dislike you as a comander" gives you no idea what you're doing wrong.

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Corporal
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298683] Sun, 12 February 2012 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lucky141187 is currently offline lucky141187
Messages:3
Registered:May 2011
Location: indonesia bandung
is it possible for JA2 fans to Mod this FOW?

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Civilian
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298705] Sun, 12 February 2012 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
Something so deeply within the game mechanics? Hardly.

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Captain

Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298706] Sun, 12 February 2012 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Istrebitel is currently offline Istrebitel

 
Messages:212
Registered:December 2009
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
If those who own rights to the game would care about people who want to play real JA sequel, they'd make one. However, one can always hope. I hope that this game's source code is released to JA 1.13 team and then i bet we'd have a great game to play. Or i hope at least that some modding tools are released.

Actually, adding FOW is not that hard. From a programmer point of view, you only need to:
- add a flag, or a float, that controls if the enemy is seen or not (or how soon till it disappears from map after being spotted but not tracked)
- simple code that sets this flag when your merc sees someone and ticks it down/unsets when noone sees the enemy anymore
- an option to pause the game when new enemy is spotted and some indication/sound for when new contact happens (since i think there is no voiceovers for "See them!")

That would be just basic FOW. Not that hard. Then you'd of course have to add some ways to spot enemy at a distance, like binoculars, make it less clunky in situations when enemy goes in and out of sight, make cover/camouflage do it job correctly etc. But basic FOW isnt that hard to achieve.

However, this indeed would be problematic if the source code or scripting ability isnt released to modders. If you can only edit game data files you can only mod in a new gun or model or something...

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298709] Sun, 12 February 2012 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
Exactly. How many games do release their source?
That's what annoys me so much about all those naive 'give modders five minutes with the game and it will be great' comments. We have exceptional access to JA2. This is not the default case. Some games provide pretty powerful scripting engines to partially make up for it, but very few projects have basically unlimited access to the very core of the game.

Btw, retarded as it may sound: Your mercs do acknowledge enemies entering their vision cones. You get the usual "The Army!" and "They are here" comments.

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Captain

Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #298807] Mon, 13 February 2012 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Istrebitel is currently offline Istrebitel

 
Messages:212
Registered:December 2009
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Well, what choice do we have? Hope hope hope....

If we dont have scripting and dont have source then its just another "title killer" game out there. Not the first one, look at X-Com, Might and Magic, Heroes of M&M, lots of great titles are killed just to make some more money out of it (maybe some fans would buy it just for the title, who knows?). At least Ja2 didnt get FUBAR into FPS game like X-Com did... and is going to be done again (very soon under the oh so different name "XCOM", notice the absence of dash)

[Updated on: Mon, 13 February 2012 14:59] by Moderator

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Sergeant 1st Class
Re: One question to those who played release: FOW?[message #299179] Thu, 16 February 2012 23:03 Go to previous message
Cagemonkey is currently offline Cagemonkey

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2001
Location: Sweden
DepressivesBrot
Sure, drones with advanced life sign detectors that even work through bunker roofs ... try harder.


F**kers should have used the tinfoil hats!

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Master Sergeant
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