Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab » 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316242]
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Wed, 13 March 2013 22:12
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Parkan |
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Messages:439
Registered:April 2010 Location: Russia,Sevastopol |
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Update exe to 5917-bug will fix.
Strohmann,
Very intresting overhaul,indeed.If you don't mind i have maybe intresting proposition.How about to make all LBE gear with custom functions?Stock 1.13 mod have not much LBE gear and such LBe gear player can obtain almost without any troubles.What i suggest:Nerf all LBE gear with some slots(for example remove 1-3 random slots from Lbe gear like ammo pockets,tiny pockets etc),but for that player can make some custom edits with modular Lbe pockets.Plus add to LBe gear some bonuses\penalties with camofluage\AP penalties or something like that.So player starts with really low slots in lbe gear but he can upgrade those lbe gear with modular gear to increase his inventory.
Or make new LBE gear like:Modular LBe Vest(base pockets no more 1-3 slots,other pockets\slots for modular lbe gear),Modular LBE combat pack(1 big slot,1 small slot other closed slots can be customized with modular gear),Modular backpack(1-2 big slots,1-2 small slots,other slots\pockets can be customized with modular gear)
So what do you think about that?
[Updated on: Sat, 16 March 2013 12:53] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316744]
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Fri, 29 March 2013 22:12
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Strohmann |
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Messages:287
Registered:August 2011 Location: Division Thought Crimes |
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Parkan[..]If you don't mind i have maybe intresting proposition.How about to make all LBE gear with custom functions?Stock 1.13 mod have not much LBE gear and such LBe gear player can obtain almost without any troubles.What i suggest:Nerf all LBE gear with some slots(for example remove 1-3 random slots from Lbe gear like ammo pockets,tiny pockets etc),but for that player can make some custom edits with modular Lbe pockets.Plus add to LBe gear some bonuses\penalties with camofluage\AP penalties or something like that.So player starts with really low slots in lbe gear but he can upgrade those lbe gear with modular gear to increase his inventory.
Or make new LBE gear like:Modular LBe Vest(base pockets no more 1-3 slots,other pockets\slots for modular lbe gear),Modular LBE combat pack(1 big slot,1 small slot other closed slots can be customized with modular gear),Modular backpack(1-2 big slots,1-2 small slots,other slots\pockets can be customized with modular gear)
So what do you think about that? Current LBE Situation:
The lbe gear vest is more or less close to what you want with the "Modular LBE Vest" as it has up to 5 small + 1 medium slot for modular pouches. The lrak saw-, ultility-, russian 106-, flecktarn-, tt pistol- and the police vest have 3 small + 1 medium slot for modular pouches. For combat packs and backpacks i couldn't find meaningfull new pocket types that were worth adding to the 3 current, so no large MOLLE pouches for them. Have you some ideas regarding that?
If you want something of that or the other lbe gear changed or added, please post the specifics. I didn't want to add penalties or bonuses because i reserved them for the armors and in case of lbe vests camouflage it seems to override the armored vest bonus.
kruxOk, I'll probably have some time to try this weekend. While I haven't tried it yet I really appreciate that someone finally tries to improve the balancing of the game, and I feel this mod ought to get more attention and feedback.
Should I use the exe in your "Newest Update" package or the newest from depri's archive? I got the latest SCI so I guess the exe in your file might be outdated?
There are 4 possible reasons in my opinion:
1. The mod is not very old, it takes some time for full playthroughs and feedback.
2. Dislike of NCTH.
3. The mod is shitty/redundant/not matching my preferences etc. and not worth commenting (:trollface:).
4. The "advanced" users, that are more likely to test unstable versions, don't "waste" their time with relativly small overhauls like mine and instead go directly for the full-blown conversation mods like AFS, Aimnas etc that match their tastes more (perfectly reasonable). The users that just play stock 1.13 are probably less inclined to play unstable versions and wait for the next stable release. All these factors likely result in a limited pool of testers.
You can use the newest unstable exe, as long as it not denoted as save-game-breaking in his thread. I try to stay up-to-date with most important xml-changes, but i won't post a new update every time the exe version changes^^.
ErzengelThe effects of folding and collapsible stocks are somehow overestimated in the game. Collapsible stocks are used to adapt the weapon length to the shooters arms and the thickness of the body armor. Therefore they make make the handling and the aiming/shooting of the gun easier/faster. You only change the length of the stock if You get new body armor, otherwise it will always stay at the same length. You can also collapse it for the transportation in a vehicle or in a backpack. So the effects of a collapsible stock should be easier handling/shooting and a punishment for pulling it out of a combat pack slot during battle. No punishment for taking it from the sling.
Folding stocks should only be folded while riding on a vehicle with tight space or while doing some work where the long rifle is a disturbance. When You are on patrol You always have Your stock unfolded to react faster to hostile situations.
There is a big difference in the construction of folding stocks. The skeleton style, like it is used on the G36 and used as image for the attachment in the game, should betreated like a conventional stock and only reduce the item size for packing it into a backpack. There should be additional AP costs for taking it out of a backpack during combat.
I don't know if the AKs and other ARs/SMGs with the folding stock made from bended steel wire are more difficult to shoot than their versions with a fixed buttstock. Toggle SpoilerCollapsible Stocks (extended):
PercentBase 5
PercentHandling -10
PercentCounterForceAccuracy -5
Collapsible Stocks (retracted):
ItemSize -1
PercentReadyTimeAPReduction 15
PercentBase 5
PercentCap -20
PercentHandling 15
PercentMaxCounterForce -20
PercentCounterForceAccuracy 15
AimLevels -1
Folding Stocks (folded):
ItemSize -2
PercentReadyTimeAPReduction 35
PercentCap -25
PercentHandling 30
PercentMaxCounterForce -30
PercentCounterForceAccuracy -30
AimLevels -1
I think the ap costs are handled on a per-pocket-type base and can't be modified by items; exception is the rifle sling bonus, but that seems to be handled game internally (? , ask flugente or someone similar). So not feasible (at the moment).
I know some mods use item transformations to change to whole item and weapon image, but i have decided against it. On one hand i still have the mad dream that at least parts of this mod could be integrated in the main trunk some day. For this eventuality using transformations for every case would be unadvisable for stock 1.13 as i would have to make 1-2 copies for most weapons, blowing the item pool out of proportion. Not to mention all the new images i would have to steal/create for all these weapon copies. Also with the inclusion of firing-from-the-hip feature from Sandro the whole folding/unfolding mechanic became mostly obsolete in combat in my opinion.
[Updated on: Fri, 29 March 2013 22:15] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316898]
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Mon, 01 April 2013 20:35
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yelirio |
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Messages:6
Registered:August 2012 |
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Hi! The last month I've been trying to find a way to play with AR. I've been playing UC 1.13 and AFS, and when I installed AR had problems with the balance of the guns.
I tried to balance them more to my liking, but was very difficult. Your mod seems like the solution to my problem!
This morning I installed AR combined with this overhaul, is realy good! There are, of course, some stuff I'd like to see different:
Shotguns: Personally, I like them. Seems like your mod improved their damage, but tweaked a lot their max range. I've recruited Igor, he gets a sawed off with six tiles of range. I realy like to supress enemies with buckshot, but with this limitation to range I need to get really close. I can't even fire if the enemy is more than 12 (+ or -) tiles away. So, can you augment a little their range? Maybe also change the spreadpattern to a more wide one, that way the shotgun can kill really close, and supress at a distance.
Shotguns (2): Seems to me that the AIM mercs with shotguns comes with very limited ammo. Can't remember right, but believe that Igor comes with 8 buckshot shells (loaded sawed off plus three reloads) and nothing more. Maybe the other weapons also get limited ammo, going to check. I think that the mercs should come ready for combat, and 8 shots only (or 4 double ones) seems more like a "test if you like this weapon, if you do, go find some more ammo in the middle of the shootout". Can we get a little more ammo?
IMP gear: I created six IMPs just to test, and found a lot of attachments without weapons to attach them. The Kobra sight and folding stock seems useless to me at this point. Going to war with stuff that you don't use doesn't seems right to me, I don't know. I have a MG replacement barrel but no machinegun also. My sniper got an amazing ruger mini-14, but comes with an unattachable WWII-scope.
Also the game crashed when I've tried to steal from an enemy and the enemy got an interrupt. Well, actually it wasn't a crash: The cursor dissapeared, the turnbar became red (indicating interrupt), and the buttons of the steal menu appeared. I couldn't interact anymore with the game, except for the show enemy view button (del). Maybe this is from the interrupt system, but I don't know.
So, please tell me if you need to playtest anything. And sorry for the poor english.
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Private
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316947]
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Tue, 02 April 2013 23:56
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Strohmann |
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Messages:287
Registered:August 2011 Location: Division Thought Crimes |
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ErzengelI found a bug, which might be in Your xml work or in the game itself. I can't sell the Steyr TMP and the PP-93 MP to Tony if their folding stock is unfolded. Technically the variant with unfolded stock is a completly new item, which isn't in TonyInventory.xml yet. I will update his list next time, until then just fold the stock and sell it then.
Quote:[...] I would rather like to see a special mortar backpack with one slot for the mortar and many slots for single mortar rounds. Maybe I will create the xml for it, when i need it in my actual game. If you have fitting images and xml-data you could send them in^^.
yelirioShotguns: [...]Seems like your mod improved their damage, but tweaked a lot their max range. I've recruited Igor, he gets a sawed off with six tiles of range. I realy like to supress enemies with buckshot, but with this limitation to range I need to get really close. I can't even fire if the enemy is more than 12 (+ or -) tiles away. So, can you augment a little their range? Maybe also change the spreadpattern to a more wide one, that way the shotgun can kill really close, and supress at a distance. [...] Seems to me that the AIM mercs with shotguns comes with very limited ammo. Can't remember right, but believe that Igor comes with 8 buckshot shells (loaded sawed off plus three reloads) and nothing more. Maybe the other weapons also get limited ammo, going to check. I think that the mercs should come ready for combat, and 8 shots only (or 4 double ones) seems more like a "test if you like this weapon, if you do, go find some more ammo in the middle of the shootout". Can we get a little more ammo? The suppression effect of buckshot got buffed with HAM 5.0. I think with a too high initial range they will overshadow every other weapon in this part as one shot potentially can suppress whole groups of soldiers. Apart from this the sawed-off shotgun is more a sidearm, the typical shotgun has a range of 10-13 tiles with buckshot. The limited gauge ammo aspect will be addressed with the next update.
Quote:IMP gear: I created six IMPs just to test, and found a lot of attachments without weapons to attach them. The Kobra sight and folding stock seems useless to me at this point. Going to war with stuff that you don't use doesn't seems right to me, I don't know. I have a MG replacement barrel but no machinegun also. My sniper got an amazing ruger mini-14, but comes with an unattachable WWII-scope. Items that can use the kobra and the 5.56mm barrel appear at 10% progress, the ww-II rifle scope can be mounted on 0% weapons. With the folding stock you are probably right, maybe i replace it next update.Quote:Also the game crashed when I've tried to steal from an enemy and the enemy got an interrupt. Well, actually it wasn't a crash: The cursor dissapeared, the turnbar became red (indicating interrupt), and the buttons of the steal menu appeared. I couldn't interact anymore with the game, except for the show enemy view button (del). Maybe this is from the interrupt system, but I don't know. Likely unrelated to this overhaul.
KruxMy only complaint so far is that I would like to see a few more enemies with pistols in early game, even though I like the new gun choices overall. Hmm, 11-12 weapons out of the pool of 50 are pistols at progress 0/10%, that's already higher than later. As the intended role of most pistols is more the of a sidearm, i won't likely increase that.Quote:My IMP got a lot of duplicate basic stuff but that's a minor complaint. You probably have chosen two major traits. I can't do something about that except to abandon the itemchoice based on major traits, which i won't. Not sure if the majority of players even choses 2 major traits, so not worth the the loss/effort in my opinion.
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Master Sergeant
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #316985]
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Wed, 03 April 2013 17:25
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Erzengel |
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Messages:15
Registered:February 2013 Location: Germany, "Federal Village... |
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StrohmannErzengelI found a bug, which might be in Your xml work or in the game itself. I can't sell the Steyr TMP and the PP-93 MP to Tony if their folding stock is unfolded. Technically the variant with unfolded stock is a completly new item, which isn't in TonyInventory.xml yet. I will update his list next time, until then just fold the stock and sell it then.
Quote:[...] I would rather like to see a special mortar backpack with one slot for the mortar and many slots for single mortar rounds. Maybe I will create the xml for it, when i need it in my actual game. If you have fitting images and xml-data you could send them in^^.
I already wrote the xml, but my actual game is so fresh that I don't have access to Bobby Rays yet. So I have to wait until I can buy one backpack. If it is working, I will look for a fitting image (at the moment I'm using the Patrol Pack image) and publish the xml-data. My research revealed no dedicated carrying devices for mortar crews, this (propably outdated) Field Manual shows some improvised carrying devices:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/7-90/Ch8.htm#top
I discovered some new issues:
I can apply the woodland helmet cover only to the steel helmet and not to the other helmets.
The camo shirt can only be applied to the kevlar vest and not to the flak jacket or the Guardian Vest. I don't know, if this is intentional or not. I was also surprised that the camo kits only add a low percentage value to the mercs camo. With 4870 and stock original data, I could use one kit to get at least two mercs to 100% camo (depending on the camo values of their other equipment):
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Private
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317086]
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Fri, 05 April 2013 20:02
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yelirio |
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Messages:6
Registered:August 2012 |
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Hi!
I've been trying the shotguns again, i was misusing them, they are useful.
Can you give the Baikal MP-233B a burst to fire the two barrels at the same time?
The Fabarm FP6 is worse than the Ithaca Model 37, except for the possibility to attach a rifled choke. I don't know if it should be better, but with range 5 is worse than the sawed off, and IIRC has a higher coolness level.
The armor seems too nerfed to me. The enemy are using steel helmets, flak and kevlar vests, and my 9mm HP ammo kills them in one/two/three shots, it's like the same as no armor at all. Maybe the protection value should be higher, but with lots of degradation after being hit. Flak has 10 protection, with 75% coverage and 25 degradation. Maybe 20 protection, 75 coverage and 50-75 degradation?
The Trapper seems too powerful to me. With 49 damage and 1.3 against flesh is (usually) a instakill against my mercs. The ruger redhawk has the same issue, but with less range so is more or less ok.
I really like that the different calibers work different now, but I think that they can be balanced a little more. Like .45 for example:
Lead: 1.0 armor 1.5 flesh
HP: 1.5 armor 1.7 flesh
Seems like standard lead is better all around.
Some bug: I used the 9mm match ammo crate (big one) to produce ammo for a glock 17. The result: 20mm mustard gas clips with 15 rounds each. I can load them in the glock, and they behave like match ammo, but the weight and price is the same as mustard grenades.
Extra: Now the SVN version incorporates the deadly games mercs. I had to modify your xmls (mercs and mercstartinggear) to add them.
Thanks for your mod, I'd like to see it in the main trunk.
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Private
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317489]
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Wed, 17 April 2013 00:22
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krux |
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Messages:62
Registered:June 2011 |
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I enjoy the mod a lot so far! Here is a few minor bugs I found:
Seems like some attachment info is incorrect. Almost all SMGs and pistols says that they can take a reflex sight, but very few of them acctually can. Same with ACOG on many weapons.
Shotgun chokes are useless but I guess that is intended?
Folding the stock on a MAT-49 with c-mag results in a CTD
[Updated on: Wed, 17 April 2013 00:23] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317558]
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Fri, 19 April 2013 00:14
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krux |
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Messages:62
Registered:June 2011 |
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Ok now I've checked this with my install.
No shotguns I've found so far (including benelli m3) can mount chokes.
KAC PDW can take a reflex sight when the sights are set to allow scopes, but HK UMP & MP5/40A3 cannot regardless of sight settings.
Pistols like glock and taurus revolver, and also the m3 says that they can take the relfex sight in the ingame info but doesn't ("cannot mount x & y at the same time").
Edit: I realise now that when starting a new game everything works as it should (as far as I can see). I can not remember that tinkering with the xmls ever required a new game though, which made me a bit confused.
[Updated on: Fri, 19 April 2013 01:48] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317575]
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Fri, 19 April 2013 22:27
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Strohmann |
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Messages:287
Registered:August 2011 Location: Division Thought Crimes |
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KruxOk now I've checked this with my install.
No shotguns I've found so far (including benelli m3) can mount chokes.
KAC PDW can take a reflex sight when the sights are set to allow scopes, but HK UMP & MP5/40A3 cannot regardless of sight settings.
Pistols like glock and taurus revolver, and also the m3 says that they can take the relfex sight in the ingame info but doesn't ("cannot mount x & y at the same time").
Edit: I realise now that when starting a new game everything works as it should (as far as I can see). I can not remember that tinkering with the xmls ever required a new game though, which made me a bit confused. If that just happened to a few items, then there is no need to start a completly new game. Just recreate them with item transformations or cheat codes.
CapnJackOn another note, I have found that Tony will not buy Berreta Cx4 Storms from mercenaries at least in the .45 ACP variant. Possibly others but I have only found Cx4 in .45 ACP. In stock 1.13 there is just a .45 ACP variant and the oversight of not being able to sell it was already there. Nevertheless it was fixed with the last update.
wsmithjr2013Thanks for this mod. Can't really offer many constructive comments but I'm enjoying the different items. Just wondering though, is this mod more difficult than stock Arulco Revisited 1.4? Only playing on Experienced and AR 1.4 seems a good balance for me (at least early on) but playing with this mod on Experienced, I'm constantly getting my butt kicked. Maybe it's just me. Also, could it be the difference between 1.13 stable 4870 with AR 1.4 vs 1.13 unstable 5986? Don't mean to complain, just wondering if it's just me or there is an intentional difference. Well, if you use the new features that bring the unstable versions with them the game becomes more complex, but that must not necessarily mean harder.
Judging this mod alone, it will be definitely harder. Reasons that immediatly sprung in my mind:
1. The enemies have access to armor already at 10% progress.
2. NCTH means less odds of hitting by default in most cases. If you use the default CTHConstants.ini from this mod the the enemies will start firing at quite further ranges (but are less likely to hit).
3. The enemy army isn't just sporting pistols at the game start.
4. The increased weapon damage probably is a double-edged sword. On lower difficulty with smaller enemy numbers you should mow them down faster before they become a major threat, on higher ones the ai gets more of an advantage as you have to be more carefull.
You have to report your problems in detail, without knowing that my initial advice is to increase the starting money to hire more mercs.
Erzengel Therefore the Mini 14 and SG552 are rather useless until You find matching sights. Yeah, that SIG Commando in san mona is definitely anticlimatic, as it is a coolness 7 weapon in my mod; AR was just built with OCTH in mind. Did you really find the ruger rather useless? A merc with marksman or hunter trait should get a rather decently target aperture with the iron sights, even at longer range and without a scope.
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Master Sergeant
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317664]
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Tue, 23 April 2013 06:16
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wsmithjr2013 |
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Messages:50
Registered:March 2013 Location: New Jersey |
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buufaceI found it unplayable to begin with but after reducing
SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS to 150
and following your steps to nerf the accuracy of autofire (still very effective but more for suppression and less lethal than before). its now much more enjoyable for me.
Interested in what values you changed. First post indicates changing NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE to globally affect auto weapons fire, but I'm not really understanding what that option does.
StrohmannYou have to report your problems in detail, without knowing that my initial advice is to increase the starting money to hire more mercs.
Thanks for the comments. It's not so much that I'm having "problems", just that it seemed more difficult than previous and the points you make confirm that it's not just my imagination. I had tried heading first to Chitzena (after San Mona) as recommended with AR and was faring rather poorly given the hail of lead from automatic weapons that I was facing.
I have just toned down the suppression system to 100% to see how that feels. 200% seemed a bit too rough given the higher proliferation of automatic weapons early. The higher damage is definitely a double-edged sword. It's nice when it works in your favor. Not so nice when your IMP merc is crouching behind a window in Omerta with weapon raised and ready and an enemy comes into sight and unloads a burst doing 87 points of damage. Can't say I've had that happen in Omerta before.
Not complaining ... just need to step up my game a bit. I really appreciate the mod, probably mostly for the work on the "Reduced weapons" setting. Base 1.13 is a bit overwhelming for me trying to figure out the differences between tons of weapons that all looked the same. I like the variety, but it was a bit too much so I appreciate the effort in this regard.
Thanks.
[Updated on: Tue, 23 April 2013 07:04] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317677]
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Tue, 23 April 2013 15:18
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Strohmann |
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Messages:287
Registered:August 2011 Location: Division Thought Crimes |
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buufaceI think this mod would be perfect for AIMNAS big maps. Have you considered modding aimnas items to your NCTH system (assuming smeagol wouldn't mind)? Not likely, even if i would be interested, there still is much to do for this mod. His stance is: smeagol 23.2.2013I'm still not willing to use NCTH but instead want to make OCTH even more playable with increased sight and gun ranges than it already is. So you probably have to wait till Headrock returns and eliminates the remaining problems with NCTH, then smeagol could eventually consider fully supporting NCTH.
Edit: There was an older thread regarding that matter, that could be your starting point: NCTH for AIMNAS, v1.6 (or is that already incorperated? I don't know, i never played Aimnas^^.)
wsmithjr2013[...]First post indicates changing NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE to globally affect auto weapons fire, but I'm not really understanding what that option does. New CTH system - Presentation
In short, NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE (single shots) and NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE (burst+auto) are calculator units for the shooting system. At these distances, normally associated with the iron sights and the absence of other aiming devices, the targeting aperture (the fancy circle) has a fixed size xyz. If you fire at targets closer/farther away relative to these distances, the target appears visually bigger/smaller for the shooter. Because as you as the player view the battle field always from the same distance, this effect is realized by the shrinkage, if closer/growth, if farther away, of the targeting aperture by the game.
Scopes compensate for the growth of the apertue size by acting as a multiplier to these distances with the tag ScopeMagFactor, so with a 4x scope you will get the same aperture size at 4 x the NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE/NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE (=28/20 tiles with default values) as you would get without any aiming devices at 7/5 tiles.
[Updated on: Tue, 23 April 2013 15:23] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #317740]
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Wed, 24 April 2013 06:19
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buuface |
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Messages:165
Registered:October 2011 |
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So reducing the NORMAL_RECOIL_DISTANCE value would increase the normal size of the targeting circle just for autofire.. But is this effect purely visual or does the value also directly effect the accuracy of the fire?
Really enjoying your mod so far!
I'm guessing that mod-specific items like the new rifle scope x3 wont appear on the AR maps and must be purchased at bobby ray or looted from enemy's guns?
[Updated on: Wed, 24 April 2013 06:24] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Staff Sergeant
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