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Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327493] Sat, 02 November 2013 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1430
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Either I messed up the installation somehow or the latest version's all screwy.
Mercs arrive without any LBE. It does show up in AIM but that's it. Poof! Gone.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327494] Sat, 02 November 2013 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:436
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

messed installation.Your bug is in ja2_option.ini.Check max item size and max weapon size,they must be no 34 and 9 numbers present here.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327495] Sat, 02 November 2013 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Parkan is right, if you don't use the fitting Ja2_Options.INI as per opening post instructions, you have to do some adjustments per hand. For example MAX_ITEM_SIZE has to be 75, MAX_WEAPON_SIZE 29, USE_XML_TILESETS has to be TRUE, NUM_P_ITEMS 7 etc.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327508] Sat, 02 November 2013 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1430
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
I see. Much gratitude.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327609] Mon, 04 November 2013 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun

 
Messages:72
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun
Strohmann
[*]update the game files at least to gamedir r1842 with SVN or SCI


Can I use SCI version of 1.13 6553/1854 (latest release) and then install the A.R. compatibility, maps, and stock zips on top?

Or do I need to use 1.13 6534/1843?

Thanks.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327614] Mon, 04 November 2013 23:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
My mod has own variants of many xmls. They can coexists with newer version in the stock 1.13 folder, but the way the Virtual File System works my xmls will overwrite their counterparts upon firing the game with my mod.

If you know enough about editing these files you can add any changes made by newer revisions by hand to my files.

Otherwise you are "stuck" playing my mod with the included revision (and no, i won't upload updates for every new revision, only if serious issues occur or enough changes to my mod have been pooled to justify a new release).

Btw you only need either the Stock-Package or AR Compatibility (for both).
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327616] Mon, 04 November 2013 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun

 
Messages:72
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun
Cool.

So hopefully this is the correct install order-

-JA2
-SCI 1.13 v.6534/1843
-Arulco Revisited 1.4

then your versions of
-AR compatibility
-stock 1.13
-random maps

installed to the JA2 main directory?

Looking forward to playing this, thanks for your efforts Strohmann.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327617] Mon, 04 November 2013 23:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:436
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

1.JA2
2.-SCI 1.13 v.6534/1843
3.-Arulco Revisited 1.4
4.-stock 1.13
5.-AR compatibility
6.-random maps
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327618] Tue, 05 November 2013 00:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Again:

Stock_1.13_GameDir_rxyz contains the core mod files.
AR_Compatibility_GameDir_rxyz contains these same files plus the stuff necessary for Arulco Revisited. No need to download both, unless you deliberately want to waste time and bandwidth.

Otherwise correct order.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327622] Tue, 05 November 2013 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SmokinGun

 
Messages:72
Registered:June 2007
Location: Land of New Rising Sun
Ahhh-so.

Thank you both very much. Nope, not into wasting time except maybe for recreation :smilingsoldier:

Just trying to figure out what to install and how to correctly install it. There's a daunting amount of new and beta development projects to cipher through for the average stumbling person like myself. Thanks for your efforts.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327690] Wed, 06 November 2013 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:187
Registered:April 2012
Strohmann
It is possible, but i don't see what purpose adding the current 3 large pocket types general large, weapon sling and combat pack as MOLLE versions would serve. There is a clear usefullness ranking between the 3, so there would be no meaningful choice between them and i don't want to artificially nerf them down to enable a choice.
Like i said in the previous post i need proposals for new meaningful large pocket variants before i would decide to expand the MOLLE system to large pocket slots.

Proposal:
Enable General large (for backpack) and combat pack (for combat pack) MOLLE versions. =)
The reason is simple. As I understand, the pockets have "volume" and the maximum volume of an item is limited, so you will have to choose either to install big pocket or install 2-3 smaller. And combat packs can be limited to only combat packs if it is possible.
And as far as I am here, I want to ask a question. What is the volume? is it an option of the item, or of a slot type? and where can I edit it, in which xml file?

[Updated on: Wed, 06 November 2013 18:59] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327691] Wed, 06 November 2013 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1430
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Having a dang good time with the latest version. Kudos to you, Strohmann.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327692] Wed, 06 November 2013 19:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3698
Registered:July 2009
cnagorneac
Proposal:
Enable General large (for backpack) and combat pack (for combat pack) MOLLE versions. =)
The reason is simple. As I understand, the pockets have "volume" and the maximum volume of an item is limited, so you will have to choose either to install big pocket or install 2-3 smaller. And combat packs can be limited to only combat packs if it is possible.
And as far as I am here, I want to ask a question. What is the volume? is it an option of the item, or of a slot type? and where can I edit it, in which xml file?
You shouldn't be able to change the main pockets of a *pack. Those things only have straps on the outside for additional small stuff you don't want to search in the main pocket.

volume is a property of each pocket as defined in pockets.xml


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327695] Wed, 06 November 2013 21:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
The last update added a modular combat pack and backpack with 4 slots for small MOLLE pouches and 1 for a medium MOLLE pouch. Both can be carried together.

@Slax

With default settings or the overpowered values of your Slaxmod?^^
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327696] Wed, 06 November 2013 22:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1430
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Own settings, naturally. Very Happy Forever a work in progress.
The way you've balanced things helps a lot with modding.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327703] Thu, 07 November 2013 03:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:187
Registered:April 2012
Want to give some feedback on the balance of this mod. Have to mention that I played only first couple of locations of AR + overhaul.

First of all, I had to decrease parameters of suppression. My mercs became suppressed to fast. 2-3 bullets flying near them and they start screaming like babies. What it means in game terms is that it is very risky to change position during the gunfight. If you catch an interrupt you have a lot of chances to become frozen in one place without any chance to run away. The same with enemy. one good volley can suppress a bunch of troops. Maybe this is intended, but I didn't like it.
I changed SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS back to 100 and limited MAX_SUPPRESSION_SHOCK to 50 and it became much better for me.
Second. 20 view range instead of 13 looks like to much for me. Maybe it would be nice for BigMaps, but I really do not enjoy it here. Maps are simply to small.
3rd. I am not sure what caused it, but my mercs die to fast. There could be 2 reasons for it. Weapons in the beginning are definitely better, but I still do not have any good armor. And you mentioned that you increased the damage, maybe this is the reason also. I do not like my mercs dying in 2, max 3 hits. I understand that it gives more challenge, but it also forces me to use Save/Load.
4th. I did not try it myself, but I am very concerned about CAMO_EFFECTIVENESS = 100. according to description in .ini file, it looks like with 100 the viewing range will be decreased for 100%. But it is unchecked.
5th. Shotguns are really good now with buckshot ammo. they suppress like hell and kill. A bit overpowered, but I like it. Now when I see the guy with the shotgun - he is my first priority to kill.
6th. Weapon variety in the beginning of the game is excellent.

So at the moment I think I will just edit .ini file and some items and this mod will become perfect for me.
1. I leave 100 suppression effectiveness.
2. I will compare the damage of stock 1.13 and this mod and if possible will decrease weapon effectiveness overall without editing weapons.
3. I will restore default visibility range. Cover effectiveness will remain on 30. Maybe I will reduce view distance not to 13, but to 15, because now more items have camo values.
3. I will edit camo kits so they will become as default or a little bit less effective.

EDIT:
I tried to use XML editor for editing this mod's items, but I failed. I copied everything file by file so XML editor would have all files necessary to load, but when it came to tabledata\items\merges.xml, it wrote me the following:

One or more of your files contain invalid data. Please fix the data and restart the editor.
Error:
Failed to enable constraints. One or more rows contain values violating non-null, unique, or foreign-key constraints.

After that I can only press OK button and the next dialogue box appears:

Error Loading Files
Details:
File: Utems\Merges.xml
ForeignKeyConstraint Constraint5 requires the child key values (12) to exist in the parent table.
Maybe you can give me an advice of how can I fix it and finally load this mod to XmlEditor?

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 03:27] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327705] Thu, 07 November 2013 06:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
cnagorneac:

Camo values for LBE were seriously decreased in this mod, and camo kits with camo bonus=3 are useless.
This approach is strange for me, possibly the reason is that you will never have camo=100 and must rely mostly on LBE bonuses.

For damage you can change in ja2_options.ini
EXPLOSIVES_DAMAGE_MODIFIER = 100
MELEE_DAMAGE_MODIFIER = 100
GUN_DAMAGE_MODIFIER = 100

Higher visibility range helps AI to be more effective, because it cannot use binoculars or scopes for scouting.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327706] Thu, 07 November 2013 06:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
That was an excellent post.

1) Acknowledged, i can decrease the default suppression effectiveness further down to 125% or even 100%, as you are not the first bringing that up.

2) The vanilla situation was that every(?) scope gave you a vision range bonus. So at some point in the game it came to "scope wars" during day; you were often just sitting and waiting for the enemy to charge into your increased field of view. Also i didn't like, that most (unscoped) weapons could immediately fire at targets, that just stepped into the default sight range; also the ratio possible distance traveled per turn to sight range.
The situation is now: spotting doesn't mean immediate engagement, at least in early phases of the game. Scopes with magnification lower than ~5.0 don't give vison range bonuses, so you are at equal footing with the ai most of the time. And you can't run as far you can see in one turn (unless ubermerc). I know the old maps are reaching their limits, but i can't do something about that.

3) With the higher proliferation of automatic weapons comes a general balance problem: because successive hits in a volley increase the damage exponentially, many single shot weapons had to have their damage increased to have any chance to compete at all. Also there are many ammuntion types (early), that give bonus damage against flesh, but quickly loose potential against armour. I'm willing to do some tweaks, but i won't likely change the general damage to protection ratio, as hitting at all is harder with NCTH. Any specific weapons?

There isn't much difference in the armour anymore. First vanilla vest gave 20 protection and came with coolness 4, here it's 15 and coolness 3.

4) That's possible, theoretically. But if i didn't miss something, the maximum you can reach is 65 (ghillie hood, jacket and leggings + camo kit) at the cost of 0 protection. I won't recommend restoring the 100% camo value the kits gave you in vanilla, unless you want to tweak the complete camouflage system and items.

XML editor problem: that's strange, i copied the file from the last update and could start the editor without any problems. In the file itsself i couldn't find anything with index 12 that could cause an error. Could it be a problem with merge type 12 (Tripwire Roll), that you are missing up-to-date files from stock 1.13?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327707] Thu, 07 November 2013 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Nah, they aren't completly useless, when a vest just gives you 18% and the kit 3-5%. You apply that thing just to the skin of your face and hands, that's not much total surface of the whole body.

All camouflage values are half as high as in vanilla, because of doubling the CAMO_EFFECTIVENESS.
The main part has to come from armour, lbe gear doesn't give camo bonuses any longer.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327708] Thu, 07 November 2013 07:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Strohmann

So we should set CAMO_LBE_OVER_ARMOR_MODIFIER = 1.0 for armour camo to work?

If we could allow camo kit to work as a "rag" item (itemflag 1024), then is will not be used repeatedly.
(mechanics: first clean old camo from kits, second apply new camo from current kit).


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327709] Thu, 07 November 2013 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Yes, it even seems to affect the total camo value if the lbe vest has no bonus at all.

Questions is, who is this "we" that will code that?^^ Currently it doesn't work, the cleaning seems to happen immediately after the camouflage application.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327710] Thu, 07 November 2013 07:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1430
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Think I'll try something like CAMO_LBE_OVER_ARMOR_MODIFIER = 0.6 to see how it works out.
Having to strip the vest for the sake of camo seems like an interesting concept. That's what combat packs and leg rigs are for anyway!

Hmm. Maybe 0.4...

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 13:41] by Moderator


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327711] Thu, 07 November 2013 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
cnagorneac:
As for suppression, there are
AP_MAX_SUPPRESSED
AP_MAX_TURN_SUPPRESSED
constants in APBPconstants.ini
So you can make suppressed soldier still be able to run away or change position, but not shoot accurately.
This can make different tactic options.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327714] Thu, 07 November 2013 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:549
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
cnagorneac
I tried to use XML editor for editing this mod's items, but I failed. I copied everything file by file so XML editor would have all files necessary to load, but when it came to tabledata\items\merges.xml, it wrote me the following:

One or more of your files contain invalid data. Please fix the data and restart the editor.
Error:
Failed to enable constraints. One or more rows contain values violating non-null, unique, or foreign-key constraints.

After that I can only press OK button and the next dialogue box appears:

Error Loading Files
Details:
File: Utems\Merges.xml
ForeignKeyConstraint Constraint5 requires the child key values (12) to exist in the parent table.
Maybe you can give me an advice of how can I fix it and finally load this mod to XmlEditor?
As Strohman already replied, your Lookup\MergeType.xml is missing entry 12, Tripwire roll. Editor finds a merge that uses type 12, doesn't find a corresponding entry, so it throws an error. So just add
	
		12
		Tripwire Roll
	
to the end of it, or grab an svn revision greater than 1802.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327716] Thu, 07 November 2013 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:187
Registered:April 2012
Sevenfm
cnagorneac:
As for suppression, there are
AP_MAX_SUPPRESSED
AP_MAX_TURN_SUPPRESSED
constants in APBPconstants.ini
So you can make suppressed soldier still be able to run away or change position, but not shoot accurately.
This can make different tactic options.

Hmmmm........
It looks very promissing. Theoretically you can leave suppression high as it was and changing this values it is possible to simulate situation when it is very hard to shoot back with precision and you will have to use another soldier for cover fire. So Cover fire will become more effective without making enemy helpless.
BUT... that will limit the suppression in some way. Maybe you wish your enemy stay without AP and this will not be possible. So with High suppression effectiveness, I think the best option would be be to make some adjustments in INI file.
To make something like
AP_SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS = 50
CHT_SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS = 100
MORALE_SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS = 100
or similar
we have MAX_CTH_PENALTY_FROM_SHOCK
But can have CTH_PENALTY_FROM_SHOCK_MOD midifier.
Same for AP_PENALTY_FROM_SHOCK_MOD
If you tweak this values, I think the fights can be more interesting with better use of civering fire.

EDIT:
Thank you, JMich.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 10:41] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327728] Thu, 07 November 2013 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Strohmann
> Currently it doesn't work, the cleaning seems to happen immediately after the camouflage application.

Actually, it happens right BEFORE the camouflage calculation and application.
So we just need to change one line 9123 in items.cpp (in function ApplyCammo)
from
return( TRUE );
to
if ( !Item[pObj->usItem].camouflagekit ) return( TRUE );

So the function just don't stop after camo cleaning.
I tested this change and it seems ok.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327731] Thu, 07 November 2013 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:187
Registered:April 2012
Where weapon damage is stored? I couldn't find it in Items.xml and in Weapons.xml when I wanted to compare them with stock 1.13
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327732] Thu, 07 November 2013 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:700
Registered:July 2008
weapons.xml ubDeadliness
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327733] Thu, 07 November 2013 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:187
Registered:April 2012
Gambigobilla
weapons.xml ubDeadliness

really?
deadliness is the separate perameter in XML editor. And both damage and deadliness can be edited separately.
Looks like damage is Impact parameter, but what is Deadliness?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327734] Thu, 07 November 2013 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1995
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Deadliness is AFAIK to describe how good a gun is considered by mercs. Influences morale (great stuff -> better morale) and determines if speech "i like this gun" or "this is crap" is given occasionally.

Damage is of course stored in damage. Smile
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327736] Thu, 07 November 2013 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3698
Registered:July 2009
Noobs, all of you Razz
Damage is of course the 'impact' value, deadliness is how scary the gun looks.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327740] Thu, 07 November 2013 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:700
Registered:July 2008
Damn, this is the last time i post without checking my facts. Thanks for the correction.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327743] Thu, 07 November 2013 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:187
Registered:April 2012
DepressivesBrot
Noobs, all of you Razz

Not me. I wrote the correct answer Cool

[Updated on: Thu, 07 November 2013 18:41] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327748] Thu, 07 November 2013 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2800
Registered:May 2009
Sevenfm
Strohmann
> Currently it doesn't work, the cleaning seems to happen immediately after the camouflage application.

Actually, it happens right BEFORE the camouflage calculation and application.
So we just need to change one line 9123 in items.cpp (in function ApplyCammo)
from
return( TRUE );
to
if ( !Item[pObj->usItem].camouflagekit ) return( TRUE );

So the function just don't stop after camo cleaning.
I tested this change and it seems ok.

Why should camo items work like rags? Existing camo is already reduced when we apply different camo on top of it if CAMO_REMOVING = TRUE. There is a bug in that function (that I'm fixing) which caused too much of the kit to be used but that's the only thing that needed fixing.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327751] Thu, 07 November 2013 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
silversurfer

The idea is that camo kit's apply only to face and hands - only small amount, 3-5%.
The rest of the camo (lbe, armour and such) should be untouched.
Rag itemflag is needed as workaround to prevent repeated using of camo kits.
So your merc's total camo is (camo from lbe and such) + (small amount from kit)

As you can see, this camo system works a bit different from that already implemented.

Strohmann can explain it better because it's his mod and maybe i am completely wrong.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327758] Thu, 07 November 2013 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2800
Registered:May 2009
Repeated use of camo kits was not possible when I tested unless I used a camo kit of different type which then removed the already existing camo type. That's exactly what CAMO_REMOVING = TRUE is supposed to do.

With the bugfix I just implemented in revision 6565 it is now not possible anymore to use up more camo from the kit than (100 - amount from worn items). If your items already give you 90 camo you can only apply 10 additional points using camo kits. That's how it works now.
Of course if you have only armor and LBE that provides 0 camo then you can color yourself 100% with a camo kit.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327759] Thu, 07 November 2013 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
1) With current system, if i have 90% camo bonus from ghillie, and camo kit with 10,
then applying kit adds only 1% of camo when i expect it to be 10%
2) If we want to limit camo for only small parts of body (face, hands) then we should somehow limit camo from kits.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327763] Fri, 08 November 2013 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2800
Registered:May 2009
1) Yes, this is correct. If you lower the bonus to just 10 percent the game will only apply 10 percent of what is possible. Your decision. Stock 1.13 kits don't work like that. They apply full bonus.

2) Limiting kit camo to face and hands would be a good thing but requires more coding.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327767] Fri, 08 November 2013 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seven.

 
Messages:2521
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
[Moved code to Code Snippets thread]

[Updated on: Sun, 10 November 2013 23:56] by Moderator



Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #327899] Sun, 10 November 2013 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Slax

 
Messages:1430
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Gotta say, the gun bags are a treat. Just like Christmas!

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