Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » #JAFDEV » Community Wishlist for JA:F
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320322]
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Thu, 23 May 2013 18:55  
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 malthaussen |
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Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia |
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Two things I'd like to see in the game: a Sikh merc (plenty of opportunity for bad puns, there), and a Gurkha. Getting proper voice acting might be a challenge, though.
I have a friend who claims to have worked with a CIA cowboy in the period in question. He says they had to stake him out in the desert to teach him some manners. Something it would be lovely if the player could do...
-- Mal
[Updated on: Thu, 23 May 2013 18:57] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320378]
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Fri, 24 May 2013 00:49
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| whoami |
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Messages:73
Registered:May 2009
Location: Russia, Uljanovsk |
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Congratulations for you guys.
I want to say something. Now everyone is happy, and it seems that there is still plenty of time - 1.5 years! But this is not true when it comes to the development of tactical strategy. The real tactical strategy, you know.
I'm not talking about games for tablet computers, where the AI makes decisions like this: "take cover - shoot - call for backup - flanking"
If you make such a game, it is no different from "BiA", "Hired guns", etc. There each soldier acts as Rambo on the battlefield - he is the one and only thinks about himself. He has no idea about the commander's intent. These games will soon get bored when the player learned the basic tactics of the AI and he gets a good weapon.
I'm talking about the actions of the AI groups. Each group has a local order. If order is flanking, they are not engaged in a firefight with the player until they have accomplished an order!
AI must have a plan, the number of choices of plans should be plenty. In this case, the player will always be surprised by AI, the unpredictability of tactical action!
__________________
Chess ... How many years have passed ... 2000 years. In this game, cool graphics? No. Maybe a bunch of weapons and equipment? Not noticeable. Or maybe there is a lot of sectors with zombies, abandoned bunkers, treasures and genetic bloodthirsty monsters? So why is it so popular so far?
Please, please, please, please, please ... please hire a professional AI programmer, while you still have time! I respect you, I know that you are professionals. But this is a special area of knowledge. Let's hire a guy like Jeff Orkin (creator of F.E.A.R. AI).
All of these new sectors, the golden weapons, new mercenaries - modders can do it. But modders will not significantly change AI after the release of the game.
If the AI in the game will be stupid, "Jagged Alliance: Flashback" turns into another "BiA" or "Hired guns". After all, this is a strategic game that requires thinking. The player needs to think how to deceive the AI, the player should not just drop off the edge of the sector and stupidly clean up the entire map.
I'm afraid that being in the pursuit of new sectors, golden guns, statues, memories of Ivan and quests we forget about the most important - strategy and tactics!
good luck
[Updated on: Fri, 24 May 2013 01:45] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320506]
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Fri, 24 May 2013 08:31
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| wolfmann |
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Messages:2
Registered:February 2008
Location: Norway |
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Okay, this may sound a bit silly to all of yas, since JA is a bit about that gunporn right?
Well, one thing that I actually liked about BiA, was the wearables, you had variation.. tho with their non repair decay system it all went to crap.
But I really liked it! So much that I used the wearables to create uniforms for my squads. I even had variations of the uniforms to let some merc roles to stand out.
Like my combat engineer, who was my mine guy and explosives guy, he was the only one wearing a helmet and goggles, and always the heaviest armor. My sniper, used a boonie, while the rest wore berets.
(Noo! Why did the enemy manage a dang headshot!!?)
I just loved that aspect of BiA.
From a ragtag bunch of mercs, I formed a well trained mercenary army, with their own style and roles.
So yeah, I think JA:F could need a bit of wearables porn too, not just gunporn 
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Civilian
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320517]
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Fri, 24 May 2013 11:45
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| whoami |
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Messages:73
Registered:May 2009
Location: Russia, Uljanovsk |
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DepressivesBrotwhoami"take cover - shoot - call for backup - flanking" Why so much derision, I wish the JA2 AI was that clever
Keyword: coordinated team action.
Example: Drassen mine.
Step 1: map creator sets a key locations on the map to AI:
- Good cover
- Good places for shooting
- Positions for the order "ambush"
- ...
- Strategically important objects on the map
Step 2: AI tries to capture the sector:
- Created 2 groups by number strategic objects (head of the mine and the church), and one group for the distraction. All groups - from all sides the sector (assuming that they have taken this position crawling before the battle).
- A group of distractions is moving into the center of maps, other groups waiting at the edge of the map
- A group of distraction engages in battle, other groups are moving towards their objectives - strategic targets. These groups are located in the "assault" mode - when engaging the fire contact with the player, they continue to move towards the goal
Group distraction is in the "defense" mode - the soldiers take cover as well and do not protrude. Their goal - to survive as long as possible.
- Micro AI acts within each group. Some of the men suppresses the the firing points ("machine gunner"), part of the soldiers using grenades, rocket launchers and mortars ("heavy weapons"), part of the soldiers using sniper rifles ("sniper"), and part of the group is moving forward ("stormtroopers")
That is, group level = "Macro AI", the level of fighters = "Micro AI". Both AI operate simultaneously, the priority is "Macro AI" (order of the commander).
- For each group, there are algorithms for Action: "distraction", "storm the object", "flank attack", "ambush", etc.
"Ambush": If the AI decides to abort the attack and make an ambush, then two thirds of the fighters takes cover, and third soldiers lure the player, shooting and running away in the direction of the ambush.
"flank attack": third group of fighters firing from cover, the rest 2/3 part of the soldiers making a flank attack.
... etc.
AI behavior of algorithms should be a lot - that the player is constantly surprised by the unpredictability of AI.
The current algorithm may be selected by a random number.
- After reaching the strategically important points of the sector is a "diversion": the elimination of the chief of the mine or father Walker. The player did not see the main group, engaging in a battle with the distraction group.
__________________
We tried to do that in JA2. As a result, one elite soldier did move for 3-5 minutes, calculating the tiles around him and analyzing the cover, the location of his teammates, the location of visible enemies, the location of his teammates visible enemies, the type of weapon in the hands of a visible enemy, the presence in the inventory of the visible enemy heavy weapons, the ratio of the number of our soldiers to enemy fighters in the sector, etc.
In the end, we settled on a simple tactic: some soldiers detect targets, others shoot "on a tip" of machine guns, grenade launchers, sniper rifles. Throw in the "gray targets" grenades, etc. But it's stupid, it's quickly bored.
"Therapist" worked on AI in our team, and he said that we need to mark on the map the key things for AI. In this way made bots for CS, and modern shooters.
Maps format of JA2 need to completely remodel to add annotations to the AI, a lot of testing new AI ... This is a job for the "paid professionals", not for enthusiasts.
[Updated on: Fri, 24 May 2013 12:01] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320782]
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Sat, 25 May 2013 15:10
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| Cosmo Bozo |
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Messages:16
Registered:May 2013 |
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RapheOkay, this may sound a bit silly to all of yas, since JA is a bit about that gunporn right?
Well, one thing that I actually liked about BiA, was the wearables, you had variation.. tho with their non repair decay system it all went to crap.
But I really liked it! So much that I used the wearables to create uniforms for my squads. I even had variations of the uniforms to let some merc roles to stand out.
Like my combat engineer, who was my mine guy and explosives guy, he was the only one wearing a helmet and goggles, and always the heaviest armor. My sniper, used a boonie, while the rest wore berets.
(Noo! Why did the enemy manage a dang headshot!!?)
I just loved that aspect of BiA.
From a ragtag bunch of mercs, I formed a well trained mercenary army, with their own style and roles.
So yeah, I think JA:F could need a bit of wearables porn too, not just gunporn
Agree with this, possibly BIA's best feature, you could make them look like professional soldiers, or like an A-team style rag tag bunch, or any mix of the two..
[Updated on: Sat, 25 May 2013 15:43] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320789]
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Sat, 25 May 2013 16:48
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| Cyborg |
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Messages:37
Registered:November 2006
Location: Europe |
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RapheOkay, this may sound a bit silly to all of yas, since JA is a bit about that gunporn right?
Well, one thing that I actually liked about BiA, was the wearables, you had variation.. tho with their non repair decay system it all went to crap.
But I really liked it! So much that I used the wearables to create uniforms for my squads. I even had variations of the uniforms to let some merc roles to stand out.
Like my combat engineer, who was my mine guy and explosives guy, he was the only one wearing a helmet and goggles, and always the heaviest armor. My sniper, used a boonie, while the rest wore berets.
(Noo! Why did the enemy manage a dang headshot!!?)
I just loved that aspect of BiA.
From a ragtag bunch of mercs, I formed a well trained mercenary army, with their own style and roles.
So yeah, I think JA:F could need a bit of wearables porn too, not just gunporn
Yes, though BIA didn't have bikinis, which was a major fault.
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #320929]
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Sun, 26 May 2013 20:34
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| Shinr |
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Messages:12
Registered:April 2012 |
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No hard limit on how many mercenaries you can recruit. The few things that should prevent you from hiring everyone is the lack of money and bad blood between mercs.
[Updated on: Sun, 26 May 2013 20:47] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322172]
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Fri, 28 June 2013 22:52
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| Akodo Deathseeker |
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Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN |
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R@SWe haven't talked about loot and enemy inventory, so here's my suggestion on that:
A quick and easy to use loot system, making it easy to sort through the loot and pick up what you want. If you have a car, maybe have an "Add to trunk" button in the GUI.
Enemies should drop all their inventory when dying, no half-arsed probability stuff here, give me mah loot!
Shanga- Proper scavenging and repair
I am sick of BiA's constant quest for new armor. JA2's "repair armor" thing might not have been the most realistic feature, but there's a fine line between micromanagement and turning the whole game into "Barbie needs new clothes".
By scavenging I mean the ability to break down a weapon into parts of various quality and use those to repair damaged equipment. I don't need and I have no use for a weapon cache of 200 AKMs when I can carry 10. But having a working trigger group or barrel when you are dying to repair your weapon might be fun.
...
Not if weight restrictions right + scavenging is put into place. Yea, you get 50 weapons, but how much you would actually be able to carry on your mercs?
But instead of hauling around a truckload of weapons you could just scavenge the parts you need.
I have opinions on both sides of this. Obviously it is most realistic for 10 guys who are shooting at you with AKs to once dead produce at least 8 AKs, not just a pack of bubblegum.
On the flip side struggling for good guns and bothering to maintain them becomes irrelevant because you
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Sergeant
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322175]
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Fri, 28 June 2013 23:05
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| Akodo Deathseeker |
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Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN |
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ShangaHaving access to the best weapons too soon kills your game fast. BIA did that. And soon I was roaming the country with a full squad of snipers backed by HMGs, cleaning out entire military bases without breaking a sweat.
Yes, getting the gravy too soon ruins the game
I think part of the way for dealing with this is rather than have 10 enemies with guns equal to or better than yours (who frustratingly don't drop them) is to have 15 enemies who in general have guns that are inferior to yours, with a few that are equal to what the mercs have and very rarely do they have a better one.
Quote:
If it was me, I'd remove weapon dealers from the game entirely. Or at least not have both weapon dealers (+BR) and Drop all. I'd like to see more bartering done, instead of straight up trade.
- Bobby Ray
I'd remove BR entirely from the game and replace him with random shipments (airdrops) from your employer. And don't have a fixed location, you actually get a note saying "We'll airdrop supplies in sector N9. ETA 24h. Be there". And it's up to you to get there in time, recover the stash and haul it back to HQ. Leave them there too long, enemy gets there before you and you've just equipped them with a cool new weapons. The irony, eh?
What I'd like to see is two groupings of guns.
Assault rifles, SMGs, LMGs, and conventional military calibers are to be found through fighting and buying/trading from local merchants.
Bobby Ray sells fancy attachments, scopes, lasers, etc. and semiauto guns...including guns that are quite not military. Bobby Ray is where you'd get a Calico from, or a fancy handgun in an exotic caliber, or a hunting rifle in 338 winchester magnum. (of course, mail ordering more ammo would be the ONLY way to feed weapons that are exotic on the battlefield even if they may be common other places)
Maybe Bobby Ray could sell 'replacement uppers' to convert M-16s you found to exotic calibers but retain full auto features. Would getting an AR-15 in 50 Beowulf be worth it if you knew the only way you'd get more ammo for it is to constantly be purchasing it then waiting a few days for delivery?
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Sergeant
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322326]
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Tue, 02 July 2013 04:13
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| Akodo Deathseeker |
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Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN |
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From the snippets we gathered, you don't lose a skill due inactivity in that skill but because you improve another skill.
So if you fight with a pistol a lot you become an expert. If you then sit around the jungle for a month doing nothing you maintain that pistol skill. However, if you practice riflery for that month and move from being an okay marksman to an expert marksman in rifle, you lose your pistol skill.
It's like a merc in JAF has a limited brain capacity, and once you learn a new fact an old fact gets forgotten. THAT is the problem I have with this system.
SECOND
This system is flawed in that it seems to assume that there are differences in the fundamentals of marksmanship based on what tool you are using. That's simply not the case. Okay, pistols are different simply because of how they are held, but marksmanship with anything that involves putting a gun to your shoulder is going to be the same. If you are an expert at making shots with an assault rifle, that skill is going to directly translate to making shots with a 'regular' rifle or sniper rifle. If you are an expert at doing controlled burst fire with an assault rifle that skill is going to translate to ALL burst fire weapons.
It's like learning a language (French) good enough to read. If you learn a new language good enough to read french romance novels, you also know that language good enough to read a french crime thriller.
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Sergeant
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| Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #322640]
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Fri, 12 July 2013 18:32
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| JAFTeam |
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Messages:157
Registered:April 2013 |
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I understand, being a gamer myself I also crave more info and details from the games i follow all the time. But, having worked on the development side for a while now I also understand that sometimes you have to prioritize your efforts in order to achieve the best results, especially when you're an indie developer.
The most important thing for our company right now is to get Space Hulk done right. If we succeed we'll be able to add even more funds to JAF and secure the future of the studio.
Being the community manager I constantly poke the team for more content to show, both for Space Hulk and JAF, but all efforts go to finishing Space Hulk up at the moment unfortunately.
As mentioned we hired a story writer and a level designer, who are working full time on JAF, I have nice map taking shape right in front of me, but as always it has taken some time to find them and get them started up - Like it would for any other company.
Once a major part of he SH team is shifted over to JAF we'll be able to put out a lot more content and also engage more with the community on different levels. e..g community votes on JAF content, Competitions, Portraits, Story Snippets, Detailed Feature Descriptions and so much more.
Regarding the wounding system it will be a matter of realism vs. fun gameplay. A lot of the time realism sounds like a great idea, but often ends up slowing up the game ruining gameplay. (just mean in general here) The budget also has a say for such a system. with all different variations come another animation + of course coding the whole system and balancing it.
As usual this is one of those things that needs to be considered once the core game is in place and needs to be tested thoroughly.
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Staff Sergeant
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