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| Re: KS Pledge Tiers Feedback and Discussions[message #319139]
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Thu, 09 May 2013 12:43  
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 Shanga |
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Messages:3480
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia |
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Reposted from KS page for discussion:
Quote:About pledge tiers, I've studied Elite:Dangerous KS again and they also have almost half of their backers at the $20-25 tier. Which is the digital price for the game and pretty normal. But..
They attracted 2000 people at the 40 pounds ($62) tier simply by rewarding them with the "name added to game database" thing. For JA:F the first chance to do that is at $200 and you sold it to 5 people. They got $124,000 out of it, you got $1000.
Also they have sold more than 1000 pledges worth 150 pounds ($233) rewarding them with becoming "Elite Founders". In comparison you're offering the chance to have the name on a wall ingame for $500 and only 4 people bought that. They got $233,000 out of it, you got $2000.
You're missing out on a HUMONGOUS pile of cash here, mostly due to simple options being way overpriced and not accessible to more people.
If I may, i'd suggest thinking of a tier that puts the backers name somewhere on a secret "AIM Colaborationists, Sympathizers and Undercover Agents" list. That could be an intel file the AIM enemies want you to locate during a quest and should be priced around or below the $50 tier.
And another tier called "AIM Founders", again a secret file you need to unlock as a sidequest, that would include intel about a few select individuals that pledged somewhere around $200. If there's a laptop interface you could put their mugshots on a "hacked" secret page on AIM's website or something.
[Updated on: Thu, 09 May 2013 12:44] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: KS Pledge Tiers Feedback and Discussions[message #319168]
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Thu, 09 May 2013 15:17
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| Lupercio |
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Messages:9
Registered:May 2013 |
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Firstly, thanks for letting me know about this discussion Shanga. Glad to be joining the bear pit after all these years! 
A few thoughts that I had about pledges and addons. A lot can be learned from the hyper successful campaigns such as torment, divinity and probably more importantly pertaining to this type of game wasteland 2.
I know some of what im suggesting may seem like selling out but the ideas here are to get the game funded. Hope this makes sense as im literally writing while im thinking!
Pledge Tiers
Cant really think of what to do with the pledge tiers... hmmmm
Additional tiers as Nek suggested. A very important one would be a limited edition (say 200 or 300) of people who have their names on a gravestone. This gravestone could have a funny one-liner on it suggested by the person writing it (in keeping with the humour of the game) Or as Shanga suggested, get their names on an intel report that the mercenaries find with a reason why they are on the list (such as being a suspect in an attack or suspected of being a rebel). I would price this quite low at $40-50 dollars but with no extra goodies (such as the map). If the pledger wants any extra goodies, well that is what the addon system is for.
In the world war 2 bunker sector (or another one), you could find a set of prison cells with long dead prisoners inside there... Their dogtags could read the pledger's name (limited tier 20 people) $150 tier or something like that! Again, no other treats really except for the stuff at the $35 tier perhaps. Any other stuff the pledger wants comes as addons.
Above a certain tier and above, you should get a thank you in the credits. I would suggest above $100 here.
Addons (of great importance):
Personally, i think the $5 humble bundle deal was a great piece of marketing but probably should have been offered as a $5 addon to anyone that pledged %5 or more (if they wanted to go that low). This way, pretty much every single person would have brought an extra $5 to the party and it would now be around $15k higher but its too late for that now.
One of the first things that i always looked for in an addon is a hi-res digital map. I think FC have got it spot on with $7 as it should usually be priced between $6 and $8. The $25 dollar backers will usually get on board with this.
Taking a page out of Torment's book (pardon the pun) would be to offer graphic novella or digital comic books as addons. These could be small stories about the main antagonists or protagonists of the story. Or perhaps small stories about the events on the island leading up to the events which occur in the game. I would definitely go for these. People above a certain tier (say $75 would get these free). Furthermore, these stories could contain hints and clues to certain politics or relationships on the island to give you a taster of things to come.
Some of the items that are in the collector's edition could be separated out as addons. Not many people want to splash out $150 for the lot but may be inclined to spend some money on individual parts. These could be say $8-$10 dollars for the digital tactics guidebook or $3-$5 dollars for the mousepad (provided they had a phyical pledge already, no point in upping the shipping unnecessarily).
Beta access for 20 dollars or aplha and beta access for 40 dollars.
Additional copies of the game in a bundle. 1 additional copy is already up on the site for $20, but what about 2 additional copies for $35, or 3 copies for an extra $45 or something like that. So people can share their experiences with their friends!
Physical decent sized prints for $15-$20 dollars or something, again for physical backers only. (65$ tier for instance)
Limited edition statue (limited to 10 or something) for $200-$300 dollars each so people can splash out without having to go to $5k.
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| Re: KS Pledge Tiers Feedback and Discussions[message #319192]
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Thu, 09 May 2013 18:22
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| GFox |
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Messages:31
Registered:January 2013 |
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As many have said before on this forum and elsewhere, it's going to be pretty difficult to bring thousands of new backers in considering the lack of actual game material.
If the KS is going succeed, I also think the key is the backer group who, at the moment, sits at 25$ tier. I agree with Shanga about the beta access @75$ being the the next tier with some real incentive and the gap being too big. The physical copies and other "non-digital" stuff are "nice", I guess, but also probably an expensive hassle to produce for you, at least if the game gets only the minimal funding.
Here's some thoughts/ideas on stuff which might entice people to up their pledge:
In-game stuff:
The mercenary, NPC and enemy quotes are nice but have to be limited and will need voice acting and tons of refining and redesign. By my logic, that's pretty expensive as well.
What doesn't have to be that limited and should be considerably cheaper to produce and most importantly gives more variety and choice:
- In-game items (pledge tier OR add-on)
- Have different game modes as an option: Normal/Tons of guns, Normal/tons of items. While some (more casual?) fans want the simplicity, there's a very big crowd of people who love tons of items and tons of micromanagement - JA2 style. Some of the most popular and loved mods here add huge amount of items to JA2 1.13. Cater to those fans. - In-game backgrounds (pledge tier OR add-on)
- Graffiti/tags, town/village noteboards etc.
- Pledger supplies the (non-copyrighted) image/text and your designers find a spot for it in the game?
- NPC quotes which aren't voice acted (pledge tier OR add-on)
- JA2 had the nameless civilians "speaking", Fallout and Fallout 2 had tons of lines for non-important NPCs
- Merchants.
- I don't see any mention of these(!). They don't necessarily need to be involved in quests or have much background story. There could be tons of them, all pretty generic and cheap to produce, voice acting isn't IMO necessary or can be so generic that one guy can do most of these. Surely we can buy stuff in this game?
- Locations/facilities named or co-designed(pledge OR add-on)
- No need to give the pledger the ability to co-design the whole sector. You are going to have locations/facilities, right? Shops, factories/sweat shops, fishermen's huts, ruins, tourist spots, bunkers etc? Relatively small things
Other stuff (add-ons):
- Alpha and beta access are already mentioned as good add-on choices and I agree.
- Something social maybe?
-An invite to launch party as an add-on?
-Another thank-you party for the backers which isn't as exclusive as the launch party but would give the fans the chance to meet each other and the game designers? (I think there has been some Bear's Pit gatherings organised by smeagol in Germany, something in that vein?)
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| Re: KS Pledge Tiers Feedback and Discussions[message #319200]
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Thu, 09 May 2013 20:06
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| Kordanor |
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Messages:29
Registered:March 2008 |
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I think a lot of things should have been different in the beginning which can't really be fixed now but are maybe helpful for a restart:
-Early Bird pledge (~5
[Updated on: Thu, 09 May 2013 20:19] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: KS Pledge Tiers Feedback and Discussions[message #319235]
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Fri, 10 May 2013 01:00
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| Kordanor |
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Messages:29
Registered:March 2008 |
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Indeed. But the problem is, that major re-structurings are hardly possible without causing total chaos, basically making the pledge tier-overview on the right side pointless. But I guess that this is still the overview most people check out.
While I think the comparisons you made to the wasteland pledges are right, I wouldn't overestimate a change to these things at this pont.
For two reasons:
1. The change would be hardly visible if you don't read the update with the announcement. You remember the big thing of having all the classic games as addition for all tears? If it wasn't the very first thing on the main page you probably wouldn't see it. And even in this case I doub't everyone sees it at first glance.
2. People who left the site without pledging will probably not return to just check if they get more for their money now. It might have an impact on all further pledges and especially on the pledges at the last day, but it won't have the "boost" effect as in wasteland. That chance is gone.
Instead I think that it's actually a big risk to do these steps. I don't know how much they needed to pay for the humble bundle deal. But my guess is that it costed more than it was worth in terms of new pledgers. Offering more at lower tiers and more on for everyone who already pledged will rise the costs a lot, at least in the physical cases. Chances are high that current pledgers will even lower their pledge because they can save money.
Remember that the 350k they have as goal is not the money they get out of the project. It's probably just 100-250k. And every cut into this little money will hurt badly. And they already took 350k as the absolute minimum and expected more. What do you think will happen if they end up with just 2/3 of the money they thought is the absolute minimum?
In addition you don't know what kind of contract they have with BitComposer. They might have a deal that they are not allowed to sell the product that cheap. They said before that all the kickstarter money goes into the pockets of FC. From each sold product after release BC will get a share. Meaning each sale at kickstarter is a loss for the license holder. Therefore I think it's very likely that they agreed on a minimum price for the game (which is too high with 25$ without early bird option, agreed).
[Updated on: Fri, 10 May 2013 01:02] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: KS Pledge Tiers Feedback and Discussions[message #319523]
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Mon, 13 May 2013 17:28
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| GFox |
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Messages:31
Registered:January 2013 |
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I was thinking about the stuff being said about the first tier where you get the game being too high @ 25$.
If you think Full Control should definitely leave that tier alone (which might be the best option), don't read the following since you'll probably want to slap me around Elliot-style since the ideas might be somewhat "out there" 
If these are all sh*tty ideas, hopefully they at least sparkle new better ones or somebody is able to refine them to something useful:
Toggle Spoiler
- Create a new "Just a game - nothing else" -tier at, say, 18 bucks?
- If everybody we have at 25$ right about now downgrades to that level - we lose about 17 500$ in backing. Not a huge amount in itself but I guess there's the the problem with the credibility if you constantly shuffle the tiers - some might drop out alltogether. Is that worth the risk, I don't know.
- Digital download, PC format - nothing else. You don't get to choose it like @25$
- No classics pack
- No name in the credits
- 25$ tier. Unofficially the "You stood your ground -tier" as you to my knowledge can't change the names of the tiers.
- Added bonuses:
1. An In-game hallmark/monument of some sorts with the name of the backers of this tier.
"You stood your ground - Thank you for being there when we most needed you etc.."
2. Easter egg quote (only this tier): Create a tongue-in-cheek insult for those downgraders like:
"Without you guys we would have unlocked all the stretch goals" or "Thanks a lot, cheapskates - now my game is without ____". As an Easter egg, these should be really hard/borderline impossible to find in the game which actually just might add replay value for some psychos..
You could also sell these easter egg quotes (and others) as 5
bucks a piece add-ons for other tiers?
So here you go. If you made it this far - Fire away at my stupidity. (I actually have additional VERY questionable ideas up my sleeve but I have to get some work done today so those will have to do - for now :crazy: )
[Updated on: Mon, 13 May 2013 17:29] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: KS Pledge Tiers Feedback and Discussions[message #319538]
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Mon, 13 May 2013 18:52
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| Kordanor |
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Messages:29
Registered:March 2008 |
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Shangagdalf@Sirlach I can't really see anyone with that kind of cash needing an internship... especially one based in Denmark 
My idea:
Co-design a custom pistol: $800
Co-design a custom SMG: $1,000
Co-design a custom assault rifle: $1,250
Co-design a custom sniper rifle/machinegun: $1,500
Yeah we're going slightly out of the realms of realism but if FC put the usual 80's realism restriction (e.g. you can't make a custom G11 sorry, but customized M14 is all go), it might make for some interesting ideas.
Edit: in fact to save FC on some artwork labor it probably should be based off a gun they're going to have in game already
Well, could work, in the respect that those would be unique weapons you can randomly find if lucky. You know... RPK "Bearpit" 74... with golden stock and diamond sights...
Wouldn't also be far away from what already is in JA2:
Quote:
Automag III
"This Automag has been modified into a monster of a pistol which fires 7.62mm NATO rifle rounds. The name "Big Bertha" has been engraved on its sides."
I wouldn't make different prices for the weapon types though.
If you are a rifle fan, you pledge for rifle, if you are a pistol nerd you pledge for pistol.
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| Re: KS Pledge Tiers Feedback and Discussions[message #319815]
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Thu, 16 May 2013 08:30
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| DaethWalker |
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Messages:98
Registered:September 2003
Location: Rocky Point, NC |
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Well, tier prices would be up to FC, I just tossed up random prices.
Unless I missed it, noone suggested any kill quests.
You could have a post office with wanted posters or just a npc with quests like in JA2: find x, kill x, bring me x's head and i'll reward you x amount of gold/cash.
That would provide tiers for the quest giver - name and storyline, and x amount of targets - name and storyline for each.
So, say high end tier for the questgiver, since it would be limited to just the one npc and a lower priced tier for the targets ... say 6 targets, so limited to 6 backers, each gets to name and do storyline for 1 target each.
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