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What would close the deal for me[message #319658] Tue, 14 May 2013 18:52 Go to next message
Registered:May 2013
I may not be a long term member of this forum, but I'm a long-time JA fan. I bought JA1 at a local disk-swap, then caught the JA2 buzz with the demo sector and have played JA2 with various patches a silly amount over the years.

However, I'm also one of those annoying people who haven't really committed to the Full Control Kickstarter yet. Why?

Lack of details. I can't find a place where FC really answer any questions about what scope they think they can accomplish on their 350K goal version of the game, and have found several places where they evade answering. This gives me the impression that there is an inability or unwillingness to plan, and this undermines my confidence in the campaign.

Basically, FC can add as many incentives as they want, but as long as they are building on top of this type of uncertainty there are people like myself who may not take the plunge at all because they don't want to throw a substantial amount of money after something that feels amorphous or unsure.

I'd suggest that FC should provide some clear information about how many sectors and which mechanics they believe they can get done for 350K. They're absolutely right that 350K is a shoestring budget, and honestly even suggesting that they're going to get all of the systems done that they've talked on a 350K budget compared to what I can see in the Space Hulk video seems implausible to me.
Re: What would close the deal for me[message #319661] Tue, 14 May 2013 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:May 2013
Maybe it would be a good idea to have an another Reddit session to ask the details?

Anyway I did email Thomas before the kickstarter went to live. Some parts:

I will share a few thoughts I especially like in the original Jagged Alliance 2 gameplay mechanics:
- Fog of war.
- After 2 turns not detecting an enemy / no conflicts, the battle will go back to real-time.
- Three different stances + running.
- Able to climb to roofs.
- Able to attach items / modify guns.
- Aiming system for better hit% by using more action points.
- Aiming to different body parts.
- Single fire / burst fire system.
- Items can easily be equipped after battle through menu.
- Quick save / quick load Smile

The features I really like in 1.13 mod
- When you aim, you can see the hit%.

The features I really liked in Urban Chaos mod
- You

[Updated on: Tue, 14 May 2013 19:48] by Moderator

Re: What would close the deal for me[message #319666] Tue, 14 May 2013 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Nobody can be THAT specific about a game they are PLANNING to make. Ok, if they were mid-production, you could justifiably ask the "does you game have this X feature"? And in that situation, studios usually have two choices:

A) Lie their heart out and hope by the time game is released people will eat the eye-candy and the marketing and forget about what they REALLY wanted...
B) Be completely honest and put themselves under close scrutiny of the community, betting their own future on the honesty card...

As long as FC stands by option B, they can have my money. Because, lets be honest, with a good heart (they proved this here), proper skills (their team looks much more skilled than Camfield said Sir-tech had) and proper guidance from the fans, ANY STUDIO IN THE WORLD can make another JA. It's not rocket science, people with less know-how have done it in their bedrooms, in their spare time, for the last 13 years. They're called modders.

And all modders had was a good heart and a love for the game. Now FC adds to that hardware, software and know-how most modders will never have access to. And they can't fail, unless something goes horribly wrong with them. But that's another story, way out of the context of this KS.

[Updated on: Tue, 14 May 2013 21:09] by Moderator

Re: What would close the deal for me[message #319673] Tue, 14 May 2013 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message

Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
so sign up and help it off the ground . Now !

Please ? Smile

Re: What would close the deal for me[message #319698] Wed, 15 May 2013 02:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Registered:May 2013
There is nothing dishonest about saying "based on our experience, we think we'll be ready to make content in time to make X sectors" and "we think that these features are low-risk, and these other features are expensive/high-risk". I'm not asking for promises, just for transparency/frank talk about the 350K level in specific.

I mean, they should have a general idea of what 350K lets them do if they're asking for 350K as opposed to 300K, 500K or 1.2M, right?
Re: What would close the deal for me[message #319707] Wed, 15 May 2013 07:11 Go to previous message

Registered:May 2013
I'm not really sure how asking for the number of sectors would be indicative of anything, and likely to change a lot in production. Would you prefer 64 (8x8) event-packed, unique and exciting sectors, or 120 sectors filled mostly with uninteresting rural filler? If you think about JA2, there were probably only 2 dozen really interesting sectors in the game - even some of the town sectors were only moderately interesting, several with no story NPCs at all in them (hence Arulco Revisited).

There are also different KS models out there - games like Wasteland and some other inXile projects had no technical demos to show off either. Others like Star Citizen had very advanced working demos available from the get-go. FC don't have inXile's all-star brand, but they have a lot of experience with the Unity engine (also being used in Wasteland) and arguably are further ahead than Wasteland 2 during its KS campaign, but clearly not as developed as Star Citizen (which is still at least a year away).

We all have doubts, but if this KS fails, the JA franchise is going to be a poisoned chalice ever after (it doesn't help that the brand rights are owned by bitComposer) - maybe not by the fans, but certainly by other publishers and devs, and this matters. For better or for worse this is either the end of the line or the start of the new beginning. And for those of us who are willing to trust FC, it's down to their interaction and real engagement with fan concerns that are important. The alpha tier is only a $40 add-on. You'll be able to point out whether they've got the personality right, the strategic balance right, the gun porn right - all from an early stage. And they've got a host of former devs and modders who are as committed to the old JA2 magic formula as we all are.

But I will agree on one thing: KS is not for everyone. It's a gamble at the end of the day, no matter how confident you are of the bet, and not everyone is the gambling type.

Edit: It's sad but unavoidable that a lot of the KS fans don't really understand how the gaming business works. When FC said this is probably the last chance to resurrect JA, they were right but it did rub off the wrong way with a lot of people who took it as an implicit threat or emotional blackmail. Put yourself in a businessman's or game developer's shoes though, and you'll see what they meant. If I had $500k to throw at a project, after BIA and a failed KS, this is not a franchise I would believe there is any market for.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 May 2013 07:20] by Moderator

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