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Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #320699]

Sat, 25 May 2013 00:09

Shanga

Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

I was thinking the other day what's exactly that thing I didn't like about the JA:F diorama. Playing another game actually made figure that out.

Visibility.

JA2 bend over backwards to give the player full view of the battle field, considering the fixed camera. We need to make sure that we don't get lost in making nice lush environments and block the player's view.

Environment is nice and all. But when I aim, either I have the choice to look through the merc eyes, or I should be allowed to "cheat" and remove trees like in JA2 (maybe leave a wireframe instead). Make the camera view too far away and put a forest on top of the mercs and it will be frustrating as hell to aim.

Also allow zoom out and zoom in (up to a certain point). I want to have a bird's eye view of the terrain at any time.

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Captain

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #320706]

Sat, 25 May 2013 00:56

JayM

Messages:83
Registered:May 2013

good points - I agree on all of them Smile

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #320724]

Sat, 25 May 2013 03:48

gdalf

Messages:89
Registered:May 2013

Heh agreed but when I saw this thread I thought it was about the XCom habit of panning the camera over your soldier's shoulder every last move of the turn, yeah it was dramatic the first time but 3 playthroughs later??? Urk

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Corporal 1st Class

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #320735]

Sat, 25 May 2013 09:16

JP'TR

Messages:104
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany

It would be good if you would be able to fix the camera at a view, similiar to the view of JA2 with the same Distance, and it should be possible to play the Game in this view only, without the need of any camera movement.
Not that you have constantly moving your camera arround for a clear sight on everything.

So Treetops on/off is important. Wireframes on objects would be desirable.
And because in JA:F the ground will be uneven, you need to have a ability to see your mercs through things, even if its just with a outline.
I would give the tipp to FC not to make the basic leveldesign to much uneven.
In the diorama the overall-view was realy good, but the maximum view-distance is much to close.

[Updated on: Sat, 25 May 2013 09:26] by Moderator

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Sergeant

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #320784]

Sat, 25 May 2013 15:36

Sam Hotte

Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany

IMO graphics and level design should not be limited to fit a certain fixed view in every situation.
But OC the need for changing views should be minimized.
There should be one (or some) fixed angles/views that player can take by hotkey (e.g. hitting 'O' brings you in overview position aligned north so that you won't get lost after some panning and rotating around).

Example of how it should not be like is BiA, where it felt like you had to adjust view almost every time to get a view/lock on every single target.

At least as much important as toggling treetops I find the ability to toggle roofs at will imperative. Again bad example BiA where you had to move near/in every single building to get inside view even in conquered and explored sectors without enemy presence.

Can't judge about feasibility with unity, but it could be a nice enhancement to immersion if you could take 1st person's view of your IMP or take a FP look through raised scoped gun (or bino) of any of your chars to get a feeling what they really do or don't see.

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Sergeant Major

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #323106]

Tue, 23 July 2013 08:00

SanderBalski

Messages:8
Registered:April 2009

Think about this in regards to ALL post isometric TBS games that did not play well:

1: Will chess be a better game if the camera is rotatable? And will it be easier to play, with less confusion and actually give MORE oversight of the battlefield?

Personally I've always been disappointed finding out about a JA2 clone or any other TBS game that changes to being full 3D and having a fully rotatable camera, (not to mention destroying TBS).... Its a genre and in Ja's case a game defining feature (isometric).

Again in my personal opinion it just won't be like JA if this is something you really wanna change. 3D can work, can work no problem, but remember that the gore was more awesome in Fallout2, then it ever was in Fallout4.... Lots of of blood and dynamic explosion damage would make up for the 3D in Ja i think, slight terrain height changes ect, walls still being able to be removed by explosions like in tactical masterpiece ja2....

I hope to see a 'isometric mode only', with a iron man camera lock for the whole game Smile

. Solve clipping problems with WIREFRAMES, AND MOUSEOVER COMEPLETE REMOVAL of objects. I do like the first person camera toggle idea:)

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Private

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #323108]

Tue, 23 July 2013 10:08

EXile 150 Abyss

Messages:137
Registered:September 2009

SanderBalski

Think about this in regards to ALL post isometric TBS games that did not play well:

1: Will chess be a better game if the camera is rotatable? And will it be easier to play, with less confusion and actually give MORE oversight of the battlefield?

I think it will but it will.
But the controls will have to be quick and easy to use.
Like using the middle mouse button to rotate and ofc scrolling to zoom.

And I'm curious too about how they want to show the insides of buildings...
Will it be like JA2 and just remove the roof or a cut-out, possibly with wireframes to show windows & doors.

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Sergeant

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #323111]

Tue, 23 July 2013 12:01

SanderBalski

Messages:8
Registered:April 2009

Hold middle mouse button and move mouse to rotate will probably make you happy. Press caps to lock, and caps again to unlock to default rotation..

Yeah zoom will be cool, see nice gore for closeup ak burst to the face Wink

.

I hope they completely remove building walls and just show wireframe. So irritating to have obstructions in front of the mercs.

--------------------------

A question: Ja2 has had massive mod overhaul, more then any game I've ever played so far, and the quality is outstanding, great coercion in the ja community.

So the question is: if the JA2 is open source, and the 1.13 mod is in existence, does that not mean that a lot of features could be instantly ported to JA:F? It seams so obvious that with a kickstarter project there is no big money lender that will obstruct a semi open source project, and with the community and Ja:F being close you might as well get modders to make half the game. At least gameplay balancing because they have more experience.

Is JA:F not something that is build on JA2 open source? Like ja2 with a 3D engine.

?

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Private

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #323112]

Tue, 23 July 2013 12:36

DepressivesBrot

Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009

If you just want to string together some fancy terms you heard somewhere, go to a politics forum.

The JA2 source is a greater daemon of chaos and in no way suitable to base anything on.

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Captain

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #323113]

Tue, 23 July 2013 13:10

Shanga

Messages:3482
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

1. JA2 is not open source. The source code was made public under a strict non-comercial license. It's a world apart from GPL or any form of open-source license.

2. JA:F will be using Unity3D engine. Which is a commercial product, too, with various degrees of access. It has almost nothing in common with old JA2 engine.

3. Full Control has a limited license to make ONE game using the JA name and assets. But the assets of the game (from merc names to graphics) are still copyrighted and owned by bitComposer.

Conclusion: Only way someone will port v1.13 to JA:F will be by manually re-writing the code. There no "insta-port" button. Also, FC doesn't own JA. It's not their pet project they decided to go to KS with. They will be under close scrutiny on what they do and how they do it.

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Captain

Re: Cutaways and How nice graphics can fuck up a game[message #323224]

Thu, 25 July 2013 16:22

SanderBalski

Messages:8
Registered:April 2009

Thanks Shanga, that clears things up.

I'm a bit ashamed of how i get that greater demon of chaos reference....

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Private

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