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hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28730] Sat, 20 August 2005 10:07 Go to next message
kjilomothu is currently offline kjilomothu

 
Messages:7
Registered:August 2005
First of all, does hand to hand apply to crowbars, and does knifing apply to machetes? Do machetes get the knifing bonus to the back?

Personally, I think hand to hand and martial arts are pretty even because both of them at expert will usually knockout an enemy in one or two hits to the head. But that was just what I tested in the beginning of the game - I don't know how they match up against black shirts in the later game.

Which do you think is better between hand to hand (expert) and martial arts (expert) and knifing (expert)?

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Private
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28731] Sat, 20 August 2005 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands is currently offline DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
In order to get martial-arts, I thought you had to keep strength below 60, as well as fill in the questionaire-> BruceLee/J.Chan_Vs_VanDamme.
A drawback can be that you'll have to train a little extra on strength.

Knocking enemies down is usefull for robbing them, once their down (and out -> you might want to hit 'em once more to make sure) you can 'grab their body'. (Ctrl+LeftMouzButt)

Knifing scores more damage but also costs more ActionPoints.
I've had several instances where my backstabbing merc missed and got left with too little AP's to make a retreat...

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copied from http://www.jaggedalliance2.com/secrets/secrets03.html :
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Hand-to-hand, Martial Arts
Mercs with either of these traits get bonuses in bare-handed combat.

Hand-to-hand experts get a +15% bonus to hit and dodge, and are particularly good at inflicting damage (+45%).

Martial arts mercs get a +30% bonus to hit, dodge, and damage. They also have a small bonus to dodge knife blows, but they can't get the damage bonus for brass knuckles. They also have a special windmill kick for weakened enemies which does double damage.

Knifing
A knifing specialist is expert with bladed weapons and receives a 30% bonus to stab and to parry (avoid being hit in hand-to-hand combat) with a knife.

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Master Sergeant
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28732] Sun, 21 August 2005 06:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kjilomothu is currently offline kjilomothu

 
Messages:7
Registered:August 2005
thanks for your input. i'm not completely sure but I think as long as you don't choose the first, sixth, seventh, or eighth portrait for your character then you can have martial arts with 85 strength.

if only martial artists could use knuckles then it would blow away hand to hand imo...

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Private
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28733] Sun, 21 August 2005 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hildolfr is currently offline Hildolfr
Messages:1
Registered:August 2005
I will choose Nightops.This skill is the best skill.

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Civilian
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28734] Mon, 29 August 2005 14:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kjilomothu is currently offline kjilomothu

 
Messages:7
Registered:August 2005
I just found this fantastic thread on knifing.

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000005

The author wrote that martial arts gives you more attacks per turn compared to hand to hand... Hmmm, I don't really remember martial arts attacks taking less AP; I figured they took the exact same AP to attack. Can someone confirm this? (I don't have the game installed on my computer at this moment.)

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Private
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28735] Mon, 29 August 2005 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DNA from the Lowlands is currently offline DNA from the Lowlands

 
Messages:337
Registered:July 2003
Checked it, started anew with Grizzly & Dr. Q.

-Both deliver punches(/kicks) for 4 A.P.'s minimum, 'aiming' increases this to 7.
(when the enemies have been knocked down the next punch will cost 2 A.P.'s extra for crouching.)
-Grizzly did more damage than Q, so it seemed.
Which is actually just like that part I quoted;+45% mo' damage for hand-2-hand.

I've seen my own i.m.p.-'wuss' miss 3 swings-in-a-row when confronted with a close enemy (probably due to his level-1-ness).
My guess is that if I had the M.A./h2h skill then I'd landed at least one of them.

Perhaps taking a punch from an enemy, who's crawled up again, may lower your blue bar / AP-total and thus the # of a.p.'s required.
AP's required for non-moving-actions are mostly a percentage of total.

Crazy Goofy also wrote:
"T-shirt, Canteen: Heh! Wear the shirt on a female, soak it and open the door to the throne room! Can't get interrupted and thus shot at by those in the back!"

I gotta try that, give Fox a call ASAP !!!

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Master Sergeant
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28736] Sat, 03 September 2005 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AZAZEL is currently offline AZAZEL

 
Messages:750
Registered:February 2004
Try to get ambushed by bloodcats with a h2h and a m-a specialist and you'll see the difference!

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First Sergeant
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28737] Sun, 02 October 2005 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
noom is currently offline noom

 
Messages:5
Registered:October 2005
Here is some information regarding the hand-to-hand traits directly from the source code. Please feel free to correct me if I get anything wrong.

MARTIALARTS (MA)
30 bonus to hit
30 bonus to dodge punches
30 bonus to damage
10 bonus to dodge knives when holding a knife
15 bonus to dodge knives when not holding a knife
the spinning kick does double damage and cannot miss - it comes out when your target has less than 30 breath or 30 health
no bonus to damage from punchweapons

KNIFING
30 bonus to hit
no bonus to damage
30 bonus to dodge knives when holding a knife
10 bonus to dodge knives when not holding a knife
15 bonus to dodge punches when holding a knife
the surprise attack gives a 50 percent bonus to damage and cannot miss - it does not require the KNIFING trait

HANDTOHAND (HTH)
15 bonus to hit
15 bonus to dodge punches
45 bonus to damage with punches and punchweapons
no bonus to dodge knives

punchweapons: crowbars, knuckle dusters
knives: combat knives, machetes

This is my personal take on the hand-to-hand traits...

Knives and machetes take a lot more action points than punches and tend to miss more and do not give breath damage. From my experience you have less of a chance to finish off or knock out an enemy in a single turn with KNIFING than with HTH or MA unless you do a surprise attack. HTH and MA experts are usually able to knock out an enemy in a single turn because their attacks give breath damage, require less action points, and tend to be more accurate. The fact that anyone can do a surprise attack with a knife, which has a 100 bonus to hit completely negating the to hit bonus from KNIFING, makes this skill even less useful. KNIFING gains no bonus to surprise attacks unlike THROWING which gains a 10 percent bonus to stealth kills with a throwing knife. Don't get me wrong, I think knives are fantastic weapons, but the KNIFING trait is not very useful.

HTH (expert) with a crowbar requires only four action points per attack, gives fantastic damage, and can usually knock out any standing enemy with a single blow, granted that you have very high strength. HTH without a crowbar is not as good as HTH with a crowbar obviously - with over 95 strength, both HTH (expert) and MA (expert) can knock out an elite with two punches, but MA has an increased bonus to hit. HTH with knuckle dusters isn't that much better than using bare fists considering that you still need two hits to knock out an enemy - a knocked out enemy is as good as dead in my view. HTH is the best hand-to-hand trait if you're planning on using a crowbar, which is heavy and unrepairable and takes up a large inventory space. Any mercenary without the HTH trait but with high strength can knock out most enemies with two hits of the crowbar. However, supposedly, the crowbar is gimped in Jagged Alliance 2 Gold.

As stated above , MA (expert) with more than 95 strength can knock out any, and I mean any, standing enemy with two hits so it's comparable to HTH (expert) with or without brass knuckles. With very high strength the spinning kick can dish out similar damage to HTH with a crowbar. MA, unlike HTH, gains a bonus to dodge knives, which is a lot more useful than the bonus to dodge punches, considering that I've never seen an enemy throw a punch outside of the boxing ring, although my mercenaries have been stabbed at or clawed at numerous times. MA mercs work splendidly with knives since they can do an immediate spinning kick, that cannot miss, following a surprise attack with a knife - the perfect combo. MA is a very useful hand-to-hand trait if you're willing to train your strength past 90.

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Private
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28738] Sat, 22 October 2005 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bastage is currently offline Bastage

 
Messages:94
Registered:December 2004
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
@noom Can you post the sourcecode info on throwing?

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: hand to hand or martial arts?[message #28739] Mon, 31 October 2005 10:03 Go to previous message
Annapolisjohn is currently offline Annapolisjohn

 
Messages:117
Registered:September 2003
Location: westminster, Maryland
I prefer the hand to hand over MA ... I like to snatch weapons from my opponent and Sometimes with MA you do too much damage and kill enemy

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Sergeant
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