Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » JA2 Complete Mods & Sequels » JA2 Deidranna Lives (Classic) » Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER!
| Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67223]
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Wed, 15 August 2001 07:52 
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 LokiOne |
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Messages:52
Registered:February 2001
Location: Issaquah, WA 98029 USA |
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As my team expands throughout the country I've stumbled across several gunrunner outposts. Todate I've walked in, looked around but refrained from taking anything (to avoid the fire fight that would ensue). I have the mines at Chitzina, Drassen and Alma plus have three of the S.A.M. sites under my control. I have avoided San Mona and Kingpin so far (but have terminated every assassin sent to get me so far) and nobody seemed to mind my taking and using the Eldorodo.
Now, I've captured the Cambria mine (moving up from the Prison) and am moving into the rest of the town in the middle of the night. When I went into the sector above the mine (the one with the bank) I was taking out enemy soldiers when a gunrunner suddenly charged my folks from out of the dark and opened fire, hitting Slay. Why?
None of my shots came anywhere near the gunrunners but now I am knee-deep fighting them and the soldiers at the same time. Not really a problem but it now means I can't snoop around any gunrunner facility without killing the defenders first.
My questions: Why are the gunrunners in Cambria to begin with? If I attack in daylight (something I'll go back and try tonight) will the gunrunners attack my mercs and rebels when all I want to do is take out the Queen's soldiers?
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Corporal
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| Re: Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67230]
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Thu, 16 August 2001 04:29 
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| Quetzalc |
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Messages:3
Registered:July 2001
Location: Bergen |
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If you enter a GR-zone at night, the first GR that sees you, usually shouts:
"Alert, Alert. Intruders in area" or someting like that, and then all hell breaks loose. If you enter a GR-zone by day, nothing happens.
Note that when you kill your first GR, you will be the sworn enemy of GRs everywhere.
------------------
Just give me a big enough gun and I'll conquer the world. (or at least make some noise)
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Civilian
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| Re: Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67231]
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Thu, 16 August 2001 04:52
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| Warhawk |
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Messages:4
Registered:July 2001
Location: SC |
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The only thing I hate about the GR's is that they aren't overtly hostile to you (ie after you have only wiped out your first two sites or you engage a army patrol in a GR sector) they can run right up to you before your mercs treat them as hostile and that really pissed me off. Because one was able to close the distance to Jubilee and unload an ENTIRE burst of Jackhammer fire into her head. That seems a little unbalanced. I mean if I saw some guy running towards me with a shotgun and murder in his eyes I sure as hell would fire. But I suppose that's the way the AI handles engaging "civilian" targets.
Warhawk
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Civilian
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| Re: Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67235]
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Fri, 17 August 2001 01:23
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| Batman |
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Messages:363
Registered:January 2001
Location: Gotham City |
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Very good points Sgt.Slaughter,
Some of the things we are planning for the next game are:
Using the "Tons of Guns" Feature to separate realistic weapons from non-realistic (Railgun).
So far in the Weapons MOD I am playtesting, I have taken 3 Cities and 2 SAMs and have yet to have found a sniper rifle. I only have 3 rifles which have a range over 30 and so far my most powerful weapon has a damage capability of 33, however, I am on my last ammo clip and once used, that weapon will be useless... (Note: the only reason I have these 2 weapons in the first place was because I took Alma as my second city)
Bobby Ray's Has JUST STARTED selling me low grade SMGs... Tony in San Mona is still only offering pistols... And although I've found an M70, I only have 2 stun grenades to go with it...
I think things like NAPALM are "cool" to play with, however, I think in JA2DL, they are just too easily found. It would change the balance significantly if you only had a few of these and had too use them sparingly.
The new Weapons MOD I am testing is primarily filled with short range weapons. Out of the 38 possible weapons, there are;
15 pistols (Average Range is 16, Damage 26)
11 SMGs (Average Range is 23, Damage 27)
5 Rifles (Average Range is 32, Damage 31)
3 Shotguns (Average Range is 15, Damage 40)
2 Sniper Rifles (Average Range is 50, Damage 35)
2 Unique Weapons (Average Range is 40, Damage 35)
Obviously the unique weapons could be elimiated by NOT selecting "Tons of Guns"...
Game Balance is one of our primary concerns in the next game... 
Thanks,
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| Re: Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67239]
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Sat, 18 August 2001 08:08
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| Sgt.Slaughter |
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Messages:7
Registered:July 2001
Location: Berlin, Germany |
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well, now that we're completely OT 
Batman, first of all I'm glad that you didn't take offence in my patch to DL. If you would like to inspect what I've changed, I can mail you the weapons.txt directly.The changes are rather small, but made the game better for me.
The new mod is great news. I have been been thinking about this kind of campaign as well. My concept would be to really make advanced guns a prized commodity, like in JA1. Things like mortarshells and LAWS could be pretty much restricted to solving heavy scenarios like having an MG-nest over an area of water and such. I think you could very well lower the damage by about 1 or 2 points on every gun. The thing is that the enemies never wear something like a strikervest=kevlar-leather unless scripted, and damage 31 is quite heavy for a simple rifle. I've lowered the average FA-MAS to 29 in my patch of DL and it plays very well now, actually reqires me to burst more often as headshots become less effective. I would have given this type of gun even less damage in a balanced mod. I have to say that I enjoy JA most when it forces me to take hard decisions, and a good example is the beginning of UB with its shortage of good guns. I would have really liked to see the tech buildup spread over 30 sectors, not just 3. But the fact is that you throw away fun guns like the Calico machinegun once something better becomes available.
Advanced ammo and attachments should be made just as rare. A laserpointer ought to be a rare item, because it is so important to bursting. As with UV goggles, there should not be more than 2 or 3 in the whole game. Well, my ideas for a mod/campaign are along these lines. Do they sound sensible?
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Private
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| Re: Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67240]
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Sat, 18 August 2001 23:48
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| Grifman |
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Messages:5
Registered:December 2000 |
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First off, I'm loving the mod - brought back new life to an old loved favorite. But I'll second the idea on the guns being too deadly - and I think this hurts the balance - and I'll tell you why.
When I first started playing and saw the increased damage that was being dished out (in comparison to the original), I thought, "Oh, no, alot of reloading and taking time to heal ahead of me." But it doesn't work that way. Most of the time, a good experienced player will get in the first shots against the enemy. And since the weapons do more damage, it's usually a kill by the first round. Lower damage weapons would at least give the enemy one round to return fire (with admittedly less damage from his end) but at least he'd get a chance.
Yeah, when the bad guys can get off a first shot, it can be bad - but it just doesn't happen often.
Nevertheless, again I want to say, GREAT GAME, and THANKS!
Grifman
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Private
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| Re: Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67244]
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Fri, 14 September 2001 11:57
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| psych0midget |
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Messages:2
Registered:September 2001 |
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Back to the original topic:
The first sector of gun runners is always the easy one. Fire off a round and let em crowd around you. Get your team in a good spread and be confident you can take them ALL out in one turn. I have a team of 8, each with a high powered weapon with HP ammo, and another weapon with AP ammo.
theres a bit of trial and error, so save often, but dont save over the one before you took on gunrunners. use each merc, and hopefully the GR are close by, and get a head shot on each GR without any more aiming effort. (lone eagles work) if you use HP ammo, theres a good chance youll blow some heads in on 7ap shot. some will not die with an HP round, so reload and try 2 ap shots to the head. i was able to take out 2 gunrunners with each merc, and my custom got 3. of course theres a few that dont come to you when you fire a round, so hunt them down, but the bulk of the manpower was taken out in one turn.
As for not confronting them, you can still get quite a few items. make sure no one sees you. Best method, move all mercs out of view of the merc thats gonna take item. if you dont see ANY GR's in his line of sight, go for it. ones that are there, you can move them one square at a time until they are out of sight (force move) doesnt work all the time tho.
i suggest you take em out early, the added firepower is good.
As for night ops, my method is to get cover, fire a shot and wait for them to come. throw a lot of breaklights in their direction and pick off some heads.
As for the realism.... i dont see real life soldiers complaining about 1 hit kills with the barret. they dont ask for weaker weapons for a better time in combat. you choose what you wanna use. but as far as realism goes, i have to say, most guns are '1 hit kill'. wheres the arguement?
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Civilian
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| Re: Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67246]
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Fri, 14 September 2001 16:46
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| psych0midget |
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Messages:2
Registered:September 2001 |
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ive noticed the same thing actually. Obviously, even AI should avoid being in bright light covered by darkness at all sides, so they tend to skirt around the light and end up flanking you or you losing an interrupt since your focus is on the light.
There are ways to combat this, of course. easy way would be to throw another light where the opponents would be passing to avoid the first. I leave a goot 10 tiles away from me and the edge of the first light, then throw 2 more with the epicenter of the light at about 15 tiles or less away from the previous. If you cant see em, blanket the place in light. I usually carry 3 per merc, so its no problem..
Another method i like is to use a spotter merc. Sahdow works best for apparent reasons, but my custom merc at level 10 with night ops and stealth skills (of course the 100 agility helps) -no i dont cheat- with camo on prone at an angle away from the initial group. throw the flare and keep the merc out of the light. As people skirt around, use the spotter merc as guides for the others. I love shooting at targets i cant see, i always seem to get a point of marksmanship with the young mercs. when all is clear and only a few remain, the spotter can compromise position and take a kill before relocating.
Ive also taken out many a GR with dynamite traps. Set up a few with each at a different frequency all in a line in front of the group. use spotters on prone if you must. Shoot off a round and wait till they come looking, chuck a breaklight and use the dynamite to your advantage. well placed traps just outside your light's range will nail quite a few. Also, teh spotter, ive noticed, will be able to sneak in a shot or 2 if the final shots of your turn come from the big group. have one merc ready at the remote det's controls.
Is this all old news? i hope im not ranting about stuff everyone knows.
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Civilian
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| Re: Gunrunners attacked me! SPOILER![message #67249]
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Tue, 25 January 2005 19:40
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| Aecho |
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Messages:261
Registered:August 2003
Location: The Netherlands, Europe |
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@Olim
I did that during daytime, captured the sector, trained militia to lightblue. Then, expecting a counterattack from a massive enemy patrol in the next sector i went to the in-game screen to move my mercs into defensive positions. That was during nighttime. The gunrunners went hostile immediately, wounded several of my mercs, then my militia got an interupt and they started to clean house. I would have been slaughtered without them. Gunrunners do become better armed and armored as you proceed in the game indeed.
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Master Sergeant
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