Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » JA2 Solutions. Tips. Spoilers! » How to snipe?
| How to snipe?[message #349720]
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Fri, 05 May 2017 20:29 
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 lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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Hi,
I havent quite figured out how to snipe properly. Can you give me some advice?
I have a lot of mercs with 90+ marksman, sniper rifles e.g. M76 with 75 range and 10x scope. I aim at a target with clear view prone, 92 marksman skill, enemy is kneeling and CTH is 0%.
And another merc with 91+ mark next to him with another 80 range rifle at about same distance has a chance of 14% at 39 range.
Or the enemy is a bit further away, yet easily in 80 range and he is standing, yet cth = 0%.
What could be the reason CTH is so low?
When the enemies get closer I hit them fine with those sniper rifles. But whats the point of 80Range, 10x scopes etc when I cant or barely can hit them at 35-40 Range?
Something im missing?
edit:
also sometimes I have this with assault rifles. The enemy is well in range of the weapon, yet CTH is like 0% with max aim, with the enemy standing in plain sight.
cheers
[Updated on: Fri, 05 May 2017 20:40] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349722 is a reply to message #349720]
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Fri, 05 May 2017 21:29 
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| killswitch |
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Messages:2
Registered:March 2017 |
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is the enemy within vision range? press "end" to view vision range on the map. sunglasses can give your merc a small vision boost in harsh daylight.
you might want to use a spotter to extend vision range. for that you need a merc with recon skill in the vicinity of the sniper, click on the recon guy and then press "ctrl" and "." to activate spotting in the 1.13 popup menu. then these two mercs need to do nothing for a few rounds, because spotting takes a while.
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349726 is a reply to message #349722]
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Fri, 05 May 2017 22:32
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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thx, cool button, I will experiment with it.
However if the enemy is "visible" and not shadowed when I use my active merc, this means he is in vision range too, right?
By some reading I also realized that armor affects cth. I put my dudes in the heaviest gear I could find all the time. Should test that.
So to properly snipe someone he must be in direct vision range? Thought like I just had to reveal them with someone in e.g. camo for the sniper who could kill them from far away. E.g. range 80. Unfortunately I have no recon skill in my group.
Also,
why is for a scope in advanced properties like everything in the first column for standing stance, it e.g. says damage modifier +2. Is this only true for standing? But then also all the stuff like tunnelvision. Also aimbonus +12% and a lot more attributes but only for standing? This doesnt make sense to me, should be in prone column too.
But sometimes then there is something in the 3rd column prone stance and only there. e.g. for bipod. There it makes sense...just a bonus for lying down. Very confusing.
What does "allowed aiming levels modifier" for a scope mean +3 in red? Id expect something in "good" green +3 aiming levels to snipe better -more right clicks on aming?
[Updated on: Fri, 05 May 2017 22:38] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349731 is a reply to message #349726]
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Sat, 06 May 2017 01:13
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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e.g. could you tell me why in this situation cth is 0%? Aiming lvls dont change cth here.
93 marks skill, 10x scope, rifle range 50/75, in line of sight, no obstacles and enemy standing
imgur.com/a/UCGeK
[Updated on: Sat, 06 May 2017 01:21] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349734 is a reply to message #349731]
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Sat, 06 May 2017 11:42
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| killswitch |
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Messages:2
Registered:March 2017 |
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what happens when the enemy gets closer? especially below 70 tiles.
do you use an unmodified ja2 1.13 in the 7435 or 7609 version and use the ncth accuracy calculations?
unmodified ncth has a base aiming distance of 70 meters (= 7 tiles) and a scope effectiveness multiplier of 1.1.
with perfect weather conditions, daylight, a 10x magnification scope and a high level character with 100 marksmanship/wisdom/dexterty you should get 70 meters * 10 magnification * 1.1 scope effectiveness = 770 meters = 77 tiles of effective aiming distance. anything beyond that should have quickly deteriorating results.
imho the base aiming distance is set way too low in 1.13. it makes ironsights on anything beyond handgun range nearly useless and puts way too much emphasis on using scopes. in my game i modified the constants (you can find them in ja2/data-1.13/cthconstants.ini):
NORMAL_SHOOTING_DISTANCE = 70 ... set to 140
IRON_SIGHT_PERFORMANCE_BONUS = 20.0 ... set to 5.0, because the problem with ironsights is their arbitrarily limited range and not the effectiveness within this range.
SCOPE_RANGE_MULTIPLIER = 0.7 ... set to 0.5, because increasing the normal_shooting_distance also means increasing the minimum range for scopes. reducing this multiplier reduces the minimum range of scopes again.
SCOPE_EFFECTIVENESS_MULTIPLIER = 1.1 ... set to 0.7, because otherwise 7x mag scopes would already outrange most sniper rifles.
SCOPE_EFFECTIVENESS_MINIMUM = 50 ... set to 75, to counter the lower scope effectiveness. otherwise a low skill shooter equipped with a 2x mag scope would have worse long range results than with ironsights.
[Updated on: Sat, 06 May 2017 11:48] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349735 is a reply to message #349734]
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Sat, 06 May 2017 12:08
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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thx for your answers.
Im using 7609 and not the ncth mode, as I read in some forum that better to turn it off (I have no idea what it does)
And I turned off "improved interrupt system"
Was that stupid?
Could you try to answer the other questions too?
"why is for a scope in advanced properties like everything in the first column for standing stance, it e.g. says damage modifier +2. Also aimbonus +12% and a lot more attributes like tunnelvision and day time sight range but only for standing? This doesnt make sense to me, should be in prone column too.
But sometimes then there is something in the 3rd column prone stance and only there. e.g. for bipod. There it makes sense...just a bonus for lying down. Its very confusing.
And 99% of the time there is no attribute in the crouched symbol column.
What does "allowed aiming levels modifier" for a scope mean +3 in red? Id expect something in "good" green +3 aiming levels to snipe better -more right clicks on aming?"
Where can I see the AIM Mercs traits when I have not hired them?
E.g. how do I find another dude with trait "scouting" like ira?
I searched google and didnt find anything. Only info where ira doesnt have scouting but only teaching as a skill.
When I have an assault rifle with slightly better stats then a machine gun, is there a reason to prefer the lmg?
[Updated on: Sat, 06 May 2017 12:08] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349743 is a reply to message #349736]
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Sun, 07 May 2017 10:22
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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thank you,
yea with the advanced properties, in your picture it looks different and like id expect.
The exe works thx, but it doesnt change the adv properties, still usually nothing in 2nd and 3rd column for scope etc but hopefully its just and displaying it right issue and doesnt affect the game.
Guns overheat? Also in 7609? Didnt notice something like that.
Using the end button is really nice, made me understand aiming and all that stuff much better.
Always using L now to use scope or binos to scout ahead.
Is there an easy way to see wether a sniper is semi automatic or has to reload AP after every shot without trying?
Or is it the looks, when it looks more like an AR it has semi.
Is there a hotkey to go to max aiming level at a shot? Pressing like 5 times right click every shot when I want to aim max is annoying.
[Updated on: Sun, 07 May 2017 10:25] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349761 is a reply to message #349744]
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Thu, 11 May 2017 22:21
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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thx for the hints.
Mouse wheel aiminglvl is especially usefull.
Is this true?
Even though ghillie 100% camo, if I dont use those extra usabe camo kits im still 100% visible?
Its says 0%/100% woodland camo.
If I use a desert camo kit and ghillie is just 100% woodland, whats the effect of the desert kit there?
What does camo do? Does it mean im invisible in green or orange range if I look at enemy viewarea? Or what does green and orange mean?
I think I played the game without camo, though ghillie etc but never used that camo kit.
But is it needed anyway/ whats the point? Im using a scout with binos to scout, so I reveal with him the enemies and shoot them with snipers etc and with binos the scout seems much further then the enemies, so he never gets revealed anyway.
Am I with camo harder to hit if im revealed?
Im attacking meduna, and enemy is spray and praying with machine guns, never hitting. But the point is to suppress me? BC my AP go down. To avoid I have to spread my ppl?
I have like 5 snipers with AR Backuprifle, and 2 with AR and heavy like mortar or launcher and one scout Ira.
cheers
[Updated on: Thu, 11 May 2017 22:29] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349766 is a reply to message #349764]
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Fri, 12 May 2017 23:55
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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silversurfer wrote on Fri, 12 May 2017 17:15
The enemy will try to suppress you so you can't fight back and instead cower behind cover. This gives him the opportunity to advance without you fighting back. So spread out your mercs. This will also help against grenades and mortar fire.
Usually what im doing now: enter sector, get to some cover, everyone to prone, 2 dudes to cover my flanks with AR and burst trigger, just semi auto sniper-rifles, find with scout first enemy, kill him loud. Then all other enemies come running in my sniper death zones and get killed one by one. Sure they MG at my position from all over the map, my ppl lose AP but still I can kill the enemies, then e.g. with everybody one snipeshot instead of 2 with severe suppression.
It would be cool if the AI was smarter or would not behave like that.
I like it if they dont leave a building, happens occasionally, so then there is some strategy required, but this happens rarely.
E.g. I just played that meduna bloodcat arena, same strategy and suddenly around the corner came like 12 dudes and blooodcats. Of course Im mustard and HE spraying and its a slaughter.
Though this map could be much cooler...if the AI was smarter.
Or its cool when there is an enemy sniper that is not moving and has long sight range in one direction.
I also found fighting tanks quite cool. It seems there is no difference if you hit them from a certain direction, e.g. stronger front armor? But then I found that mortars completly own them and there is zero risk...kind of also reduces the fun factor/ excitement.
What I also didnt like were those hordes of enemies, after drassen in the beginning like 40 or something enemies came and I had to get to small rooms with my low level mercs with basic pistols etc and lure them one by one, Cant imagine you can beat that with some kind of abuse tactic, impossible on open field even with cover, with the enemies having more/same range and so many early in the game that I ran out of ammo all the time. And after those another 20 when my mercs are just healing.
Regarding camo,
im still quite not getting it:
I get full ghillie and by that 100% woodland camo. Then hovering over 100% camo next to portrait it says: 0%/100% woodland camo.
What does this mean?
I thought it might show actual camo in that situation so I went into woods, yet it still says 0%.
If not using ghillie but that camo usable kit I get some values like 5% of XY%.
Looking at bobby rays I dont see something like desert camo?
How would I get proper desert camo when desert camo kit only affects face and hands, and all armor items are just woodland camo?
Simple grey "kevlar leggings" looks like nice urban camo, but has 0% camo.
Whats the point of "fur hat" and "officers hat" or russian hat? 0% camo, 0% protection, Just joke items?
Is there a button etc to show how good my camo is at a spot?
Is there a tweak to show complete item decription with stats for items at bobby rays?
[Updated on: Sat, 13 May 2017 00:17] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349779 is a reply to message #349720]
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Sun, 14 May 2017 18:37
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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thx, will test that new aim mode.
But:
How do you handle those hordes one after another in the beginning?
Without 100 times reloading I think chances are like 0.
I had like 5 in my squad, liberated drassen and soon like 60 enemies came. And all my mercs were low lvl with pistols.
Is this a bug?
Only way for me to finish that was to go in a small room with just one entrance (small building next to Drassen Mine entrance) all my dudes in corners and then luring a beeline of enemies in and constantly running out of ammo for all weapons bc there were so many.
How does a "pro" play this? Ironman, expert wtf.
Do you play with enemies "drop all" or is that overpowered?
Is there an indicator how much the enemy is suppressed?
I tested NCTH.
The aiming cursor looks different, I dont undestand it yet, but whats obvious to me -the cursor doesnt change wether if I aim at the head or torso or legs? Looks like the chances (cursor getting smaller) CTH are the same? Is this correct?
[Updated on: Mon, 15 May 2017 00:34] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349802 is a reply to message #349800]
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Tue, 16 May 2017 00:05
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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Cool info, thx.
Whats that with all the ini stuff enabling things like weapon heat, you never see when you dont know about that ini things?
Did the modders put all those tons of options in, but didnt want to make the heads of people explode with depth?
Is there like "an ini" with settings 90% of all people love, or is everybody doing his own thing?
E.g. with that "massive counterattack" disabled by default, maybe weapon heat on, this an that on/off for the most fun gaming experience?
Of course id like some challenging counter attack but not when I have 4 people that hit nothing thats further away then 4meters, with enemies with smgs and whats not and pleeenty of them.
Can you tell me this:
Started new, left main base.
3 fields away on the way to cambria, 3rd fight 12 people on "road" with 4 mercs including Ira.
How to do this properly?
I put all my dudes behind cover rocks. My dudes with just like pistols and maybe a faulty smg in prone miss almost all the time @ enemies very close running just torwards them. The enemy clusters in front of me and just shoots standing there with no cover and hit my mercs in cover with heavy damage more often then I hit them. (btw do you recommend to use "new interrupt system"?)
Its kinda frustrating, bc sure I can maybe manage every situation with enough times of save/reloading the game (and then there is Ironman with no saving WTH?). But thats not fun.
Using the old CTH system atleast I found the game to get easier and easier as you progress -with AR, sniper rifles-> having more sight and weapons range then the enemies, and mortars and grenade launchers on top of that.
But this is not how games should work I think, they should get harder and be more gentle at the start, learning curve etc.
Can you understand my points?
I understand that you can alter a ton of settings, but I just want some refined plug and play 
Is there maybe some "complete" guide on what to enable, how this and that works e.g. equipment system -just used basic pouches etc but I understand that there is more to that.
Or e.g. what all the colors mean when I use "enemy sight button" in conjunction with my camo. E.g. am I undetected in orange sight zone with the right camo or not and then how is that affected by standing or prone position?
It seems to me that the game is quite complex but Im having a hard time to find a guide or writeup with explanations for tons of things that are not explained or obvious in-game.
[Updated on: Tue, 16 May 2017 00:16] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349814 is a reply to message #349806]
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Thu, 18 May 2017 12:02
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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Thx.
Whats the point of shotguns?
E.g. with drop all I early found AR that seem to be much better. Much less AP needed something like (16)36 vs 5(23) AR, not that much less damage 40 vs 29, no chamber reload, and much more accurate and more range 20 vs 28
Also compared to almost all SMG those AR are better, it seems to me.
Are there good reasons to use SMG and Shotguns when you have AR like I discribed?
I guess I should not have spend almost all my money on 2 mercs (+imp+ira) but with 2 week contracts. Thought that saved money ;)
Do you get your 8 dudes right at the start?
Do you right at the start go to e.g. cambria liberate it and wait for counter attack? Then protect the mines, train militia or quickly to the next town?
[Updated on: Thu, 18 May 2017 13:15] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349832 is a reply to message #349817]
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Fri, 19 May 2017 17:07
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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Thx, seems like I have to buy that buckshot, bc it seems rare.
Seems like dexterity has to most impact on interrupts?
How can I increase my chances to get interrupts? Does it matter if my people already "aim" at a direction where the enemy will come? Does stance (standing/prone) play a role for interrupts?
E.g.: I have 5 people with lots of AP at a corner looking at a spot nearby, the enemy comes around that corner. How to increase chance for interrupt?
Also in a lot of other situations interrupts play a major role between kill or get killed especially close combat.
[Updated on: Fri, 19 May 2017 17:08] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349834 is a reply to message #349832]
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Fri, 19 May 2017 21:02
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| Deleted. |
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Messages:2657
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation |
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lax1234 wrote on Fri, 19 May 2017 19:07E.g.: I have 5 people with lots of AP at a corner looking at a spot nearby, the enemy comes around that corner. How to increase chance for interrupt?
In original interrupt system:
1. Effective experience level (having friendly squadleader nearby is good, being drunk is bad)
2. Effective agility (being drunk is bad)
3. Watch spot (if you have seen enemy recently at this spot, you gain bonus +1 to +4)
4. More people at your side than at opponent's side (lose one point for each 2 additional opponents soldier currently sees, above 2)
5. Being in shock is very bad (suppression/wounds)
6. Penalty for being in running animation or being bandaged.
7. Night ops trait gives bonus to interrupt, only in the dark.
8. There's a penalty to interrupt level if soldier is listening to radio.
Raising gun gives small bonus (works only in multiplayer mode in stock 1.13).
In Ja2+AI, raising gun in opponent's direction gives bonus to interrupt, raising gun in different direction gives penalty, so if you know where you will see enemy, it's better to raise gun, if you can expect enemy from any direction, it's better to not raise gun.
[Updated on: Sat, 20 May 2017 17:05]
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349853 is a reply to message #349834]
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Sun, 21 May 2017 23:32
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| lax1234 |
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Messages:14
Registered:April 2017 |
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oh quite complex, cool. So nothing to do with dex.
But what I dont get:
guys, seriously. Do you play without cheating?
I got san mona lots of cash, bought some nice mercs and have nice AR. Full team.
Im defending cambria mine day 9 and 60 people attack. Seriously how to do this?
Even if I use "lame tactics" like going into the small building in the corners to kill them when they come in. There are too many, with grenades, machine guns, blackshirt dudes, snipers, grenadelaunchers, etc they even kill me through the concrete walls -so that doesnt work. And 60 of them. So any time im seen or I do move there is a cascade of interrupts and enemies attacking. I then I have someone like Ira that even with buckshot likes to miss at a target 6meters away.
And then I have SSD, i5 etc, but with the new interrupt or NCTH or what ever AI moves take much longer, especially when the map is clustered with them like that.
How do you play that? Whats the strategy? How does somebody do that on ironman?
[Updated on: Sun, 21 May 2017 23:39] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349870 is a reply to message #349855]
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Wed, 24 May 2017 15:21
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| Подонок |
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Messages:1
Registered:May 2017 |
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Is there maybe some resources with different CTHsettings.ini to test out which configuration suits preffered gameplay the best? I like the idea of sevenfm with rather challenging aiming. In AIMNAS (which I enjoy a lot) the problem is that enemy numbers are huge but they just behave like idiots running to the onslaught by the mercs they cannot see. Can I find anywhere some custom ini files that improve AIMNAS balance? Thanks for reply.
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #349876 is a reply to message #349870]
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Wed, 24 May 2017 19:29
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| Deleted. |
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Messages:2657
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation |
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Подонок wrote on Wed, 24 May 2017 17:21In AIMNAS (which I enjoy a lot) the problem is that enemy numbers are huge but they just behave like idiots running to the onslaught by the mercs they cannot see.
This is the problem of sight range and AI - if enemy soldier cannot see you, he cannot fight.
You can:
1. Increase sight range, remove vision bonuses from scopes, remove penalty to shoot at unseen targets in CTHConstants.ini. This should allow enemy to fight more effectively as this change will greatly reduce difference in sight range between player and enemy.
2. Try using Aimnas with 7609 and Ja2+AI. In Ja2+AI, enemy will shoot much more at invisible targets for suppression and also make aimed shots at invisible enemy soldiers aiming by hearing if they haven't moved since last turn.
Also, in Ja2+AI, enemy soldiers will not just run to closest enemy, but try to run to nearest cover, wait for the next turn, run to next cover, etc.
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #356163 is a reply to message #349720]
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Thu, 13 December 2018 10:12
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| HellsWind |
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Messages:43
Registered:October 2018
Location: Netherlands |
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Any way to exit combat mode on demand? ea when my spotters/snipers spot a target at a distance they often turn on combat mode "automatically" without having a direct threat.
Might i turn this off somehow?
Now I have to manually turn my mercs to face the other way to enter real time again but when I turn back to spot again same happens after a while.
[Updated on: Thu, 13 December 2018 10:22] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: How to snipe?[message #363562 is a reply to message #349817]
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Tue, 03 August 2021 19:11
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| harveson |
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Messages:41
Registered:August 2015
Location: Minnesota |
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silversurfer wrote on Thu, 18 May 2017 06:35You may as well ask "What's the point of pistols or rifles once I have ARs?". Shotguns are best used by mercs with the Hunter/Ranger trait. They get lots of bonuses related to shotguns. Shotguns with buckshot are good for suppression and help poor shooters to actually hit something. Against armored opponents they don't do much damage (unless you use flechette ammo) but even they can be knocked off their feet by the high amount of breath damage a full load of buckshot does. I gave Ira a shotgun (Neostead if I remember correctly) to start with so she can improve her shooting skills.
I wouldn't outfit a whole team with shotguns but it's a fun weapon class. My hunter/medic still uses a SPAS-15 and her kill count is higher than that of some of the AR guys. 
Compared to default 1.13 I have the HANDLING_SHOTGUN_MODIFIER set to 0.8 in Item_Settings.ini because I think the handling values for shotguns in Items.xml are a bit high for such basic weapons.
I use SMGs only for my auto weapons people until I get ARs for them or use them as a sidearm for my snipers.
I try to get as many mercs as I can afford, then do the food quest for the rebels so I can recruit Miguel. That already makes 3 mercs that don't cost anything on the long run (IMP, Ira, Miguel). A few cheap AIM mercs like Barry, Meltdown etc. can easily be paid. I usually don't take Drassen directly but try to head for San Mona first to loot some nice stuff in the houses and have a talk with Tony. This usually provides some SMGs, rifles, ARs, ammo and maybe a sniper rifle on the way which is a good start for any offensive on a town like Drassen and the according SAM site. Also the money that Kingpin doesn't need anyway comes in handy too. ;-)
Shotguns, pistols, and useless gear - A Commentary.
I'm on the side of {Silversurfer}
Why are you even playing JA, JA2 or any mod?
It's the nature of the Game, the Beast. You start out weak, with a hill to climb. With "Tons o' Guns" Ivan got an HK with a range of 26 (i.e., 260 meters); that's good.
Everyone else, pistols. You start weak with one good MERC and one or two low-dollar MERCs.
Did you pass the marshmellow test when you were three years old?
Do you know about delayed gratification?
You take mediocre MERCs and build them up into a team.
Pretty soon (Day 9 or 10) Grunty is a 90-marksman. He never gets stronger (Meltdown can beat him arm-wrestling).
Dimitri turns into a knife-thrower like Blood.
If you have three G11's or three HK-MG36 with 600 rounds waiting for you in the Humvee in Omerta, Day 1, where's the drama and the struggle?
Shotguns give your guys something better than a pistol when many Red/yellow/brown/grey-shirts still have pistols. And for MERCs with bad aim, a shotgun with buckshot clears a lot of brush.
It's a matter of perspective. What did you do the first time you played the game, JA2 1.12? Did you know about San Mona? The first quest sent you to Drassen, and the Airport (Bobby Rays).
What about designing a whole new JA game?
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