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Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94527] Sat, 03 January 2004 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cpd315 is currently offline cpd315

 
Messages:47
Registered:May 2002
Location: Spring, TX
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shrike:
I'll go start over for the 3 rd time then Surprised
LOL probably no different than that first time you played JA2 oh so long ago. Wink That's why it is just like a new game to me

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Corporal
Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94528] Sat, 03 January 2004 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shrike is currently offline Shrike

 
Messages:58
Registered:December 2002
Location: Belgium
 Well, to be honest: I don't think people should restart because they haven't done something in a certain preset order. If you can't prevent such occasions, then in my book such situations are bugs. I can't remember whether the original JA2 had such, but I doubt it.

Since I appreciate UC profoundly, restarting is not an issue for me, but I sure hope something can be done with the upcoming patch, so that the playing experience becomes even better. Reporting on such issues should help the team out with reproducing and fixing these issues, so they're intended to be constructive, certainly not as criticism.

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Corporal
Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94529] Mon, 05 January 2004 09:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
adamsun

 
Messages:175
Registered:January 2002
Location: MA, USA
 Shrike, this is a bug. Your report is welcome, because it has confirmed our bug report. It also let us know that not everyone go to Calisto first.
BTW, in my previous post, "go to Calisto first" is not recommended, but a temp work-around on this bug. Personaly, if it is not for this bug and the need for Bobby Ray's, I would like to attack Galileo and Adrian first, to get better weapons early on. In fact, that's how we found this bug in the first place. Unfortunately, it was not reproduced(therefore dismissed) until 12/29/2003(on Drake), then reproduced on Sheraton and Galileo on 12/31/2003.
(General speaking, a bug reported by more than one different sources is considered confirmed. A bug can be debugged and then fixed only if it can be reproduced.)

I am only a low-low tester and do not know anything on what cause this problem, how to fix it or when it can be fixed. But I do hope(like you) that someone who knows such things will fix it soon.

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Staff Sergeant
Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94530] Mon, 05 January 2004 09:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga is currently offline Shanga

 
Messages:3480
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
 Quote:
Originally posted by Shrike:
I can't remember whether the original JA2 had such, but I doubt it.
Well, I can assure you, it had. Bug Queen missing on some hours. And so on.

And yes, if you play an TBS/RPG game you should do things in a preset order. Once you stray off the beaten track, strange things happen. That's how JA2 is built. Most people tend to forget the RPG part of the game and concentrate on killing.

Well, unlike Starcraf or else, in JA2 you need to pay attention to what NPCs say and follow their directions. And NPCs do direct you to Calisto. And from there on to Sheraton.

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Captain
Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94531] Mon, 05 January 2004 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Grifman is currently offline Grifman

 
Messages:5
Registered:December 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by Shanga:


And yes, if you play an TBS/RPG game you should do things in a preset order. Once you stray off the beaten track, strange things happen. That's how JA2 is built. Most people tend to forget the RPG part of the game and concentrate on killing.
I have to disagree here. I'm not cracking on the Urban Chaos team here in any way, but a well designed RPG will allow you to go anywhere and do anything in any order - and accurately account for that fact in conversations with NPCs, quests, etc. The Fallout games are excellent examples of this ability - and I don't think JA2 had a problem wiht this in any significant way, either. Designers should not expect you to do things in any given order, IMO.

Grifman

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Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94532] Mon, 05 January 2004 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga is currently offline Shanga

 
Messages:3480
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
 Of course, in theory, you are free to do anything. But then don't complain you missed a quest.

JA2UC Quests are based on JA2 quests. If they are not triggered, then the player missed something vital. Of course, there are some bugs withing the quest scripting, to be fixed. But I've also noticed people not bothering to read even the Recon info.

Listen closely to what NPCs say is a MUST for anyone wanting to do that, don't you agree?

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Captain
Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94533] Mon, 05 January 2004 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Grifman is currently offline Grifman

 
Messages:5
Registered:December 2000
Quote:
Originally posted by Shanga:
Of course, in theory, you are free to do anything. But then don't complain you missed a quest.
Certainly, I agree, but that didn't appear to be the issue Smile

Quote:
Listen closely to what NPCs say is a MUST for anyone wanting to do that, don't you agree?
Of course, that's one of the main points of an RPG - interaction with NPCs in a "living" world.

Grifman

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Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94534] Mon, 05 January 2004 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TrailBlazer is currently offline TrailBlazer

 
Messages:511
Registered:September 2001
Location: Athens, Greece
Uh, come on, the "wrong order" thing of the Miranda quest is a bug Smile

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First Sergeant
Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94535] Tue, 06 January 2004 04:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shrike is currently offline Shrike

 
Messages:58
Registered:December 2002
Location: Belgium
 @ Shanga
Quote:
Well, I can assure you, it had. Bug Queen missing on some hours.
Well, iirc, she was always there at night, so this wasn't a real showstopper.

@ Trailblazer:
Quote:
Uh, come on, the "wrong order" thing of the Miranda quest is a bug
Agreed, but missing out on the mines if you get to Sheraton first is worse Smile

Again, these issues hardly damage my enjoyment of your mod, but it might for a lot of others, so it would still be better to get them fixed :wave: In software development there's just one golden rule: don't leave margin for error, or the errors WILL occur. So, your statement would be correct in case players were to get an always triggered cut-scene or something, telling them explicitly to do stuff :nerd:

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Corporal
Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94536] Tue, 06 January 2004 06:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga is currently offline Shanga

 
Messages:3480
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
 Nah, what I wanted to say (not talking about know bugs) is that people assume we had the source code or something. I am actually flattered by this but it's also frustrating. If it would've been possible, we would've added that "always triggered cut-scene" for every essential quest. But since we were forced to stay within the original game, we had to be scarce with doubling the warnings only because some people could miss them.

The basic idea is this: JA2UC was done in a complete darkness, by trail and error, thanks to an incredible ammount of experimenting done by the exe hackers. Just imagine what it could've been done with a bit of support from the owners of the licence. Or with the source code.

And I'm not 100% wrong about the RPG part. Just read JAWZ II posts.

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Captain
Re: Starters Tips (MAJOR SPOILER)[message #94537] Tue, 06 January 2004 20:54 Go to previous message
Sweeper is currently offline Sweeper

 
Messages:99
Registered:March 2002
Location: Namsos, Tr
 Okay, I knocked a few ways off the quests, but I took up the pace after a while.
I have forgotten the ambassador for now, when I didn't find him, I have now set him as secondary objective.
Primary is taking over the whole rigamarole.
And taking out the queen Ja2 style.
I will correct this once I have finished the first game round, and I come back for the second run.

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