Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab  » Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312653] Fri, 30 November 2012 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
Messages:439
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

So,this is a bug or new specific feature?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312654] Fri, 30 November 2012 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
This has been so since IIRC 4552 or 4870. That's all i know.

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312656] Sat, 01 December 2012 00:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandro is currently offline Sandro

 
Messages:420
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars
That is simply because enemies evaluate attack success, and when there is too low chance to win, they won't attack.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312663] Sat, 01 December 2012 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
This is actually much older 'feature' then recent stable release. It happens when you have nearly all veterans in a sector. When you fill a sector with vets enemy just stops attacking it. This is why I never play with training veterans option turned on. I do believe this should be changed and allow for attacks in this case too. Thing is, enemy doesn't even send troops to those locations anymore and, frankly, I can't picture Deidranna sparing her troops from attacking a sector regardless of the level of defenders.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312665] Sat, 01 December 2012 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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Registered:April 2010
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But how it possible?In some early versions enemy made attacks even if i had a lot of mobile militia a sector militia veterans.Can this feature set to off?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312666] Sat, 01 December 2012 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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Someone decided it should be like this and made it like this. Easy as that.
Solution: If you want attacks, don't cram every corner with elite militia.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312672] Sat, 01 December 2012 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:693
Registered:July 2008
If you think about it, it makes sense you would not attack somewhere if winning probability is low. I'm not sure about this but changing these values under "Militia Strength Settings" might lower militia fighting prowess so the enemies decide to attack you more.

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First Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312673] Sat, 01 December 2012 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandro is currently offline Sandro

 
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Location: Mars
Yes, Gambigobilla is right, you can decrease militia (autoresolve) strength to make enemies more likely to attack.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312674] Sat, 01 December 2012 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
I was wondering another thing. The way I think system works now is that game generates group of soldiers with orders to attack certain sector, the group travels to selected sector using its own pathfinding system and then, when it gets next to the target sector, evaluates enemy strength in that sector. So if the enemy is stronger then selected soldier group, it generates more troops in that group until it either reaches the limit set in ini file or the group is strong enough to defeat enemy. Basically, that last part sort of compensates for any large strength difference between militia and Deidranna's forces since it tries to balance the odds just prior the attack. Assuming ini setting are balanced of course.

However, I think that game also calculates chances of success before creating a group of soldiers and sends them to attack a sector by using MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE value as a strength evaluation of soldiers group vs current militia strength in the target sector.

I'm wondering if increasing MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE in ini file would also increase frequency of attacks?
Also, assuming it does work as I said before and since soldiers group can 'grow' to bigger size in case of being too weak to threaten a sector, should odds even be calculated using MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE and not, say MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE since that is actual potential strength.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312675] Sat, 01 December 2012 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
navaroe is currently offline navaroe

 
Messages:78
Registered:August 2012
@Parkan:
In my attempts to have more battles like Drassen counter attack I tried adjusting MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE too. I had exactly the same problem even after setting it only to 13 (using JA2_5555.exe) - after some time, attacks completely stopped (insane difficulty, unlimited pool of troops), tested that several times with different values between 13 and 40 ( using cheats).

However, I found way to make get at least half way there. Modify ArmyComposition.xml, especialy the DesiredPopulation tag content. After increasing it 4 times from the orginal for all cities and SAMs, increasing MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE to 100 I get not-stopping large attacks which with other minor tweaks make game quite difficult and fun when playing without reloading on MERCs death.

40+ men on Drassen SAM and town in early game, even more later, vs 20 militia and 40 enemies on map at one time, you have quite a few dangerous moments every now and then. I also increased EVALUATION_DELAY_VARIANCE_INSANE to 1430 in order not to go crazy/bored from those defensive battles.

=======

I'm looking forward to try counter attacks addition soon. Sounds great, Flugente ^^. But now, before going out, there is 52 men attacking Chitzena Smile

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Corporal
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312678] Sun, 02 December 2012 03:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
@Nav:

That's pretty much what I want to do in my game, increase size of enemy forces so that enemy attacks in cities become more fun and dangerous. However, did you run into overflow problem on Drassen counter attack or any other attacks where enemy force was way smaller then it should be?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312684] Sun, 02 December 2012 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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@Nav:

Thanks for tip i will try out this.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312687] Sun, 02 December 2012 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
navaroe is currently offline navaroe

 
Messages:78
Registered:August 2012
@Uriens:
Haven't noticed any problems at all and I did quite some testing to make sure, I won't have to restart the game again. With the values I chose, everything seems to be all right now.

One important thing I forgot. It might be obvious, but I not only increased evaluations variance, but mainly
BASE_DELAY_IN_MINUTES_BETWEEN_EVALUATIONS_INSANE = 1440 so that the game doesn't became totally impossible to win because of large attacks 2 times a day Smile
Large variance should sometimes produce long periods without attacks, but also some large attacks immediately following each other, which I hope will be fun.



Here goes my ArmyComposition.xml:
Note, that initial population is mostly the same. That will result in queen slowly reinforcing the garrisons, giving you some time off in your first city, but also making you pay for that time when you take offensive. In my game, Drassen SAM and Chitzena SAM had over 80 guards when I attacked and during battle for Chitzena I had to kill over 170 enemies - still I'm down just one MERC and that was in Drassen and just my stupidity, when I sought action instead of cover and elite got interrupt on MD Grin

Toggle Spoiler




To make the information complete I'll add ja2_options.ini As I said, with these two files modified this way, I didn't experience any problems so far.
The main changes are:
-making start easier(or say, possible) - more money and slower payment raise on merc level-up, because 4 mercs just won't take Drassen over and I'm bored with making it in San Mona and by killing guy or two here and there and because with this numbers of enemies, merc's level will soar.
-game harder - slower repairing, doctoring, more expensive militia
-rain length and variance
-some others I don't remember now, but no doubt you have these customized to your likings anyway Smile

edit: deleted the incomplete ja2_options.ini copy and added filehost link from post bellow:
http://depositfiles.com/files/k0iqg6y1i

[Updated on: Mon, 03 December 2012 13:50] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312688] Sun, 02 December 2012 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
Thanks, I'll try those settings for my next game. Smile

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312714] Mon, 03 December 2012 06:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
Hmm, seems that bottom half of your ini file is cut off, can you post it too? I'm very interested in your strategic settings for army and militia.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312719] Mon, 03 December 2012 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
navaroe is currently offline navaroe

 
Messages:78
Registered:August 2012
Hm, may be my post was already too long? Hm, tried again just now with similar result. I'll just upload it here. Let me know if there is still some problem.

http://depositfiles.com/files/k0iqg6y1i

[Updated on: Mon, 03 December 2012 13:38] by Moderator

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Corporal
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #312720] Mon, 03 December 2012 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
Got it, thanks. Smile

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #313633] Thu, 27 December 2012 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
Ok, just had Chitzena counterattack on WF maps and there seems to be a problem there.

The enemy is apparently set to attack B2 mine sector from 3 sides but on WF maps B1 is also a Chitzena city sector and they run into defenders there. When that western enemy group got taken out the remaining enemy forces that were supposed to attack from south and east just sit there outside city and do nothing. I'm guessing that western group was supposed to trigger counterattack and, since they got wiped out, there is noone left to trigger it.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #313635] Fri, 28 December 2012 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Correct, B1 initiates the assault. Cant help it, I have to hardcode every group, so this might not work with different city sectors.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #313662] Fri, 28 December 2012 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
Can you make Chitzena counterattack go from 2 sectors? From what I saw enemy uses 4 groups there, 2 from west, 1 south and 1 east. If you make them go 2 groups from 2 sides only (south and east) you will make it compatible with both vanilla and WF maps and keep the same number of enemy troops. I think B3 group should initiate in that case since B3 is forest with no road which should make them latest arrivals.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #313667] Fri, 28 December 2012 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wanne (aka RoWa21) is currently offline wanne (aka RoWa21)

 
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Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
No time to currently look at the source code repository, so is this feature already included in the 1.13 source?

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Sergeant Major

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #313670] Fri, 28 December 2012 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@RoWa21: Aye.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316165] Mon, 11 March 2013 03:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrjmwarren is currently offline mrjmwarren

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2005
Location: Houston TX
Flugente,

I love all the improvements you have made in the last few months. AWESOME!!!!!! One question can you change the "MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE" levels I would like HUGE group of say 2000 and for "MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE" say 100. I think on the earlier versions I could change the INI to allow this but after like revision 2445 it was maxed at 100.

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Private 1st Class
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316177] Mon, 11 March 2013 13:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens is currently offline Uriens

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2006
Generaljoe
Flugente,

I love all the improvements you have made in the last few months. AWESOME!!!!!! One question can you change the "MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE" levels I would like HUGE group of say 2000 and for "MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE" say 100. I think on the earlier versions I could change the INI to allow this but after like revision 2445 it was maxed at 100.


I would second that.
Actually I ran into a bug in one of previous revisions where Deidranna didn't send any troops at all. I had changed MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE to 64 i think, but I have also changed armycomposition.xml files as well. Something I changed the game didn't like apparently since queen didn't send any forces through whole game, only enemies on map were patrols and garrisons. If you can look at this part of the code to increase MAX_STRATEGIC_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE limit, you are likely to fix the problem I ran into. The reason why I didn't post it in bugzilla is simply because I was unable to determine what change I made broke the game and I simply didn't have time (real life issues) to test it properly and find out.

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316190] Mon, 11 March 2013 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@GeneralJoe: The enemy team con only hold 64 soldiers max in a sector at any given time. Any additional troops will gradually join combat and replace dead guys.. Apart from that, the game cannot handle groups of sizes > 255 (propably even less, like 64 or sth.). At best, it will truncate to 255, at worst, overflow.

@Uriens: I'll look into it.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316203] Tue, 12 March 2013 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrjmwarren is currently offline mrjmwarren

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2005
Location: Houston TX
@Flugente

Thanks for responding. Have you looked into the Wildfire MODS. Im playing Wildfire6.06 on JA1.13 exe ja sv B005. I play with the following settings no problem*******

MAX_STRATEGIC_TEAM_SIZE = 2000

; This is not used yet
NEW_AGGRESSIVE_AI = FALSE
; Amount of troops avaliable to the queen at game start
NOVICE_QUEENS_POOL_OF_TROOPS = 150
EXPERIENCED_QUEENS_POOL_OF_TROOPS = 200
EXPERT_QUEENS_POOL_OF_TROOPS = 300
INSANE_QUEENS_POOL_OF_TROOPS = 450

; Initial group sizes for pre-placed garrisons when starting a new game
NOVICE_INITIAL_GARRISON_PERCENTAGES = 70
EXPERIENCED_INITIAL_GARRISON_PERCENTAGES = 100
EXPERT_INITIAL_GARRISON_PERCENTAGES = 150
INSANE_INITIAL_GARRISON_PERCENTAGES = 2250

; Percent of troops converted to extra elites in enemy groups
EXPERIENCED_ELITE_BONUS = 0
EXPERT_ELITE_BONUS = 25
INSANE_ELITE_BONUS = 50

; Minimum enemy group size
NOVICE_MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE = 3
EXPERIENCED_MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE = 4
EXPERT_MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE = 6
INSANE_MIN_ENEMY_GROUP_SIZE = 100


***** 1.13 versions prior to 4552 i believe allowed for essentially unlimited enemeies I routinely fought 200 plus size enemy groups. How was this possible on those versions?

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Private 1st Class
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316266] Thu, 14 March 2013 23:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
200-sized groups might be possible, depending on wether or not the code is driven to overflows when groups merge. 2000 shouldn't be possible, even though you might be able to write that in the ini.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316329] Sun, 17 March 2013 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrjmwarren is currently offline mrjmwarren

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2005
Location: Houston TX
So it must be seriously difficult to do, but what needs to be done to make huge groups say 1000 soldier enemy company or even just a 300 or so enemy. Ultimately I would like the Zerg (lol) type onslaught. I know its really complicated to do but what would it take, and how can I help?

The General

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Private 1st Class
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316331] Sun, 17 March 2013 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
Changing an undefined number of variables to a bigger datatype while taking care not to break any of the unknown but probably large amount of stuff those are involved in.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316332] Sun, 17 March 2013 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan is currently offline Parkan

 
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Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

Generaljoe

Are you playing with GOD mode on your mercs if you want such epic mega enemy groups of such size?0_o

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Master Sergeant
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316334] Sun, 17 March 2013 02:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrjmwarren is currently offline mrjmwarren

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2005
Location: Houston TX
Parkan,

LOL @ God mode. I just want to make it incredibly hard to takeover Arulco. I usually play with extrememly well supplied platoon of 20 mercs then add the locals(IRA, Dimitry Maddogg etc) so playing vs 64 enemies really isnt a challenge or realistic. I just want massive battles since Im heavily equipped and 20+deep lol

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Private 1st Class
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316335] Sun, 17 March 2013 02:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrjmwarren is currently offline mrjmwarren

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2005
Location: Houston TX
Again I could setle for enemy size of 200+ but for 64 enemies I dont even have to use the heavy artillery to wipe them out

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Private 1st Class
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316343] Sun, 17 March 2013 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
And here was me thinking JA2 was a squad game .... Cool

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316344] Sun, 17 March 2013 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax is currently offline Slax

 
Messages:1411
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
200+ could work whenever big maps becomes a thing. Right now it'd just get crowded, don't you think?

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Sergeant Major
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316345] Sun, 17 March 2013 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
64 spread out nicely on the de-facto standard 360 maps, finally giving you some room for maneuver without hugging the very edge. You'd have to go bigger for more.

If you want challenge, I suggest not to attack pistol armed mall guards with two squads and a heavy platoon's worth of firepower. If you want massive battles, play a company or brigade level game.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316349] Sun, 17 March 2013 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Plus there's the waiting time for enemy turn.... looooong time !

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316371] Tue, 19 March 2013 05:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrjmwarren is currently offline mrjmwarren

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2005
Location: Houston TX
"If you want massive battles, play a company or brigade level game."


@Depressivebot, that said what company or brigade level game would you suggest.

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Private 1st Class
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316372] Tue, 19 March 2013 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mrjmwarren is currently offline mrjmwarren

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2005
Location: Houston TX
@Lockie,Flugente, Depressivebot

Guys maybe im not expressing myself correctly. I understand that only 64 enemies will be in tactical squad map that I can engage at any one time. I Understand that. I am trying to set a enemy squad size that allows them to keep coming. As I wipe enemy out every turn, I want them reinforced. For example I would like to have enemy kill squad of say 500 Elites. At first turn 64 will be on the combat screen, Lets say I kill 20. Instead of having 44 enemies remaining, I want them reinforced so next turn they pull 20 from reinforcements/reserves so now turn 2 they are back to 64. Lets say turn 2 I kill 5 again instead of 59 I want 5 more from reserve on the screen. As It is I no matter what I set in the options, I get the red writing at game start saying "max enemy squad 100". I am simply trying to change this NOT the amount that shows in fighting screen as it sounds like that is almost impossible. Do you understand what I am looking for guys. How can I accomplish this?

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Private 1st Class
Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316375] Tue, 19 March 2013 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
Yes that's what at least FLug and I were talking about all the time, so all comments still apply since it's a pointless exercise.

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Captain

Re: Massive enemy counterattacks... in all major cities[message #316383] Wed, 20 March 2013 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
mrjmwarren is currently offline mrjmwarren

 
Messages:37
Registered:November 2005
Location: Houston TX
Depressivebot

Thanks for the message. How was this accomplished on the early Wildfire Mods before 1.13 revision 2445????????

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Private 1st Class
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