Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » Showing more item flags in-game
Showing more item flags in-game[message #325274] Tue, 17 September 2013 13:06 Go to next message
Faalagorn is currently offline Faalagorn

 
Messages:154
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
Some existing flags of an item are already shown in-game in the general tab, which is awesome - for example whether the item is waterproof or not, addcitional properties on canteen, gas can, alcohol, some kits, wire cutter, foods etc.

However, there are way more properties that can be set in the XML editor, some which could be shown in-game without need to check in XML editor.

Some examples:
  • Can the item be damaged at all?
  • Can the item be repaired? (I'm mostly looking forward to this one, as It's often hard to judge what can be repaired and what not)
  • Does the item sink?
  • Is the item unaerodynamic?
  • Is the item electronic?
  • Is the item made out of metal?
  • Is the item Two-Handed?
  • etc.
There's some additional properties regarding of kits (camouflage), distractions, battery usage or possibly some of the Flugente's flags from recent additions - for a general idea, just look at the "Attributes" and "Abilities" pages in the XML editor.

That would need art to do some drawings, but as for now, I can settle for anything, even the plain graphic with a Arial letter placed on it Wink.

One issue is that weapons, including melee items, like multi-purpose-knives won't list the properties, but it's already like that anyway, you don't get to see which gun is waterproof.

I'm looking forward to suggestions for two things - one - whether anyone will be willing to add it to the game source? And two, what attributes to add to the game and what should stay solely in the XML (for sure we don't wnat to add things like "does it appear in sci-fi".

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325284] Tue, 17 September 2013 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Faalagorn
[*] Is the item electronic?

That's already in.

I'd restrict display of additional properties to those being important for game play and that cannot be told easily from real world experience.
E.g. no need to tell in game that a gun cannot be thrown very well while a hand grenade can.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325289] Tue, 17 September 2013 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
I wouldn't want to clutter the interface with mostly useless info.

[*] Can the item be damaged at all?
Who cares? When it gets damaged we can simply repair it. If we don't want anything damaged we should leave it at home.

[*] Can the item be repaired?
That is hard to say because it doesn't only depend on the tag.

[*] Does the item sink?
Why? Do you want to throw items into the sea? Very Happy

[*] Is the item made out of metal?
This just causes the item to receive less damage. Why would anyone want to see that? Weapons are made of metal anyway. Armor uses which is displayed already.

[*] Is the item Two-Handed?
Just put it in your main hand and see if the off hand field is removed.

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325292] Tue, 17 September 2013 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
silversurfer
[*] Can the item be damaged at all?
Who cares? When it gets damaged we can simply repair it. If we don't want anything damaged we should leave it at home.

But there are things that cannot be repaired like e.g. ceramic plates.
Though I agree on that's not being important Information.

Quote:
[*] Can the item be repaired?
That is hard to say because it doesn't only depend on the tag.

But that could be interesting information as mods can make things not normally repairable by assignment but you'll have to merge it with repair items.
So, what else determines if thing is basically repairable?

Quote:
[*] Is the item Two-Handed?
Just put it in your main hand and see if the off hand field is removed.

And e.g pay the price in APs for inventory manipulation.
So, yes, on some items it might be interesting to know if it's two handed (e.g. "is the normnal UZI single handed like its smaller brothers?") without having to do trail and error.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325296] Tue, 17 September 2013 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Sam_Hotte

But that could be interesting information as mods can make things not normally repairable by assignment but you'll have to merge it with repair items.
So, what else determines if thing is basically repairable?


We have these ADVANCED_REPAIR and MERCS_CAN_DO_ADVANCED_REPAIRS ini settings. When they are TRUE only technicians or certain NPCs can repair certain items. If we show the player that an item is repairable and he still cannot repair it because he lacks the skills this will probably lead to lots of questions...

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325298] Tue, 17 September 2013 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
And if we don't show what is repairable and what not, even more questions arise probably.
Obscurity does not lead to less questions, but rather to less or more difficult answers, IMHO.

However (in theory, unable to judge about feasibility) this could be solved by e.g. having different (coloured) icons/descriptions for "normal" repairable and "advanced" repairable.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325300] Tue, 17 September 2013 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
Siding with Sam here, I guess you didn't have to answer the daily 'Bug! My armor doesn't get repaired.' In the AIM thread.

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325303] Tue, 17 September 2013 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Sam_Hotte

However (in theory, unable to judge about feasibility) this could be solved by e.g. having different (coloured) icons/descriptions for "normal" repairable and "advanced" repairable.


That's a good idea and would better explain possibility to repair to the player. Sorry, after a long work day my brain sometimes has to take a time-out. Wink

How about this:

red wrench -> not repairable at all because is set to 0
yellow wrench -> fully repairable only by technicians or special NPCs
green wrench -> repairable by anybody

Of course the corresponding tooltips should be present. This information should be placed at the bottom of the general tab next to "repair ease".

edit: Might as well replace repair ease to save space.

DepressivesBrot
Siding with Sam here, I guess you didn't have to answer the daily 'Bug! My armor doesn't get repaired.' In the AIM thread.

No. :widegrin:

[Updated on: Tue, 17 September 2013 19:34] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325304] Tue, 17 September 2013 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Well, if 'repair ease' is present, it should be obvious, that it is repairable somehow.
I was rather thinking about none-gun items (like armour), where is quite some space for icons available on right side of general tab.

If we had a coloured wrench there (as you proposed), it could be quite an improvement. Smile

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325309] Tue, 17 September 2013 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
*sigh* I hate interface work... :roulette:

I just looked at the code and repair ease is only displayed for weapons but it is used for other items as well, some armor, LBE and explosives for example. That means that first the display of this tag should be fixed and after that it could be used for all items.
If the value is 0 the UDB could simply display 0 or -- like it does for other tags that don't have an effect in a certain scenario. The color of the wrench and the tooltip will reflect the repairable tag and skill required.

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325310] Tue, 17 September 2013 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
thx :thumbsup:

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325312] Tue, 17 September 2013 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab is currently offline pheloncab

 
Messages:278
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
And I was thinking just having the flags added to the advanced tab like bonuses and stuff..

Report message to a moderator

Master Sergeant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325313] Tue, 17 September 2013 21:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Hey, I didn't say that I will do that. I may do that if I feel bored which is seldom the case. Very Happy
Let's see if I find the time.

@pheloncab
"Just having something added" will not happen because "just add" is actually a lot of work.

[Updated on: Tue, 17 September 2013 21:21] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325338] Wed, 18 September 2013 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn is currently offline Faalagorn

 
Messages:154
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
Damageable, Metal and Sinks properties may be handy to see when used to determine how risky is it to keep the item on mercs vulnerable to explosive damage or water (when he dies the item sinks) - or whether it is safe to throw the item on water to pass to an other merc, but I agree there are not the top priority. Unarodynamic would be used to determine how far the item is thrown, but it's probably of the least importance, because a target cursor is already there to help us.

Another positive side effect of showing these values would be, however, an indirect help on improving mods - if a player would see a wooden bottle with the "metal" tag, then he may report that to the mod maker.

BTW, I thought that Metal will be related to the metal detector, but on the other side, I have no idea how it could be xD.

When we're at discussing flags, what does the "Show status" (might be something related to whether the item appears or not, but where?), as well as "Hardware" and "Medical" flags? Are the latter related to the LBEs? Covert ops?

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325344] Wed, 18 September 2013 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Faalagorn

When we're at discussing flags, what does the "Show status" (might be something related to whether the item appears or not, but where?), as well as "Hardware" and "Medical" flags? Are the latter related to the LBEs? Covert ops?


It gets read in XML_Items.cpp but I doesn't look like it is used anywhere else in the code.

Used for shopkeeper item choosing

Same as Hardware

So these tags are not useful to display ingame. The last two are just for modders to select items for the shopkeepers.

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325361] Wed, 18 September 2013 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
I decided to work a bit with this tag and this is how it looks for armor so far:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/8/3m9t.png
I set ADVANCED_REPAIR = FALSE in Ja2_Options.ini for these screenshots and set the kevlar vest to 0.

As you can see the wrench is colored now (didn't do screenshot for yellow) and the tooltip describes what each color means. Now I only have to do this for all other item types...

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325362] Wed, 18 September 2013 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax is currently offline Slax

 
Messages:1411
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
@silversurfer
Looks promising. :bluecool:

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325373] Wed, 18 September 2013 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Ok, I'm done with repair ease display. Also fixed the missing tooltips for explosives on the way.

The new display is active since revion 6417. You will need GameDir 1777 too because I had to add two icons for the wrench. Don't try to run this exe without the correct GameDir or it will crash.

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325374] Wed, 18 September 2013 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hmm. You do know that it depends on MERCS_CAN_DO_ADVANCED_REPAIRS wether technicians can repair an item?

Edit: Not that your solution is bad - easy way would be to simply adjust the text.

[Updated on: Wed, 18 September 2013 21:51] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325377] Wed, 18 September 2013 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Yes, you are right. Hmm, I didn't want to add hints to ini settings to the tooltip because that would look strange.
Looks like I have to copy some strings together depending on ini setting. :headscratch:

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325378] Wed, 18 September 2013 23:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Revision 6420 takes into account if MERCS_CAN_DO_ADVANCED_REPAIRS = TRUE or FALSE.
I also added the missing tooltips for weapons in OCTH.

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325381] Thu, 19 September 2013 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
silversurfer
Hey, I didn't say that I will do that. I may do that if I feel bored which is seldom the case. Very Happy
Let's see if I find the time.

That's been fast. Very Happy
:thumbsup:

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325395] Thu, 19 September 2013 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Bugfixing has higher priority and since this included bugfixing... Wink

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325398] Thu, 19 September 2013 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn is currently offline Faalagorn

 
Messages:154
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
This looks great Smile. Repair was the thing I needed the most. I also like the side effect of this addition that every item gets the two-side box now with the Primary and Secondary properties Smile

Now, are you planning to add some more properties?

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325399] Thu, 19 September 2013 11:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Faalagorn
This looks great Smile. Repair was the thing I needed the most. I also like the side effect of this addition that every item gets the two-side box now with the Primary and Secondary properties Smile

Yes, everything except weapons, armor, ammo and explosives was missing a properties display. Now that the basic structure is in the code it is easier to add more attributes.

Faalagorn

Now, are you planning to add some more properties?


Not at the moment. There are several reasons:

1. New attributes require new icons. :venus: <- not me
2. Weapons cannot have secondary icons because there is no space for them. So showing simple boolean attributes will not work with weapons.

If someone would create the icons and players don't see it as a problem that they don't show on weapons I could add more secondary attributes.

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325447] Fri, 20 September 2013 00:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn is currently offline Faalagorn

 
Messages:154
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
silversurfer
If someone would create the icons and players don't see it as a problem that they don't show on weapons I could add more secondary attributes.

Why not add a placeholder and graphic artists will eventually add them? Flugente also used a placeholder icon for some of his features. Going a bit off-topic, I also think that we should have one big thread with a list of missing artwork and animations to do, so when we get an artist on the forum, he/she could take a look at what's needed to do Smile

About weapobns missing properties - it wasn't a problem with not showing additional properties so far (In AFS there are a lot of melee weapons that can be used as a crowbar or lockpick, yet they are missing these properties, and waterproof and electronic icons aren't shown on weapons as well)

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325467] Fri, 20 September 2013 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Depri will kill me if I force him to create another SCI... :computer3: :rifle:

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325468] Fri, 20 September 2013 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3658
Registered:July 2009
Why would I do that? It's not like it's an involved process, killing my ping for an hour or two is probably the worst side effect.

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325469] Fri, 20 September 2013 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Just kidding of course. Wink

These are the tags that I could add and which provide at least some usefulness:

Damageable <- I will display the icon when this is 0 because most stuff is damageable and I would want to see those items that are special
Metal
Sinks
TwoHanded
BlockIronSight

That means that I will have to create 5 placeholders in Data\Interface\ItemInfoSecondaryIcons.sti.

If there are any objections please state them quickly. I don't want to change the GameDir more often than necessary.

[Updated on: Fri, 20 September 2013 15:01] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325472] Fri, 20 September 2013 18:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
Ok Depri, time to update your SCI! Very Happy

The new code is in revision 6425. This requires at least GameDir 1782!

Here is a screenshot so you know what the new icons look like. Of course there are tooltips as well.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/806/9wkv.png
From left to right:
- not damageable
- made of metal
- sinks
- two-handed
- blocks iron sights

Now someone with some graphic skills can update them if he wants to.

Taking a break... :compcuppa:

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325473] Fri, 20 September 2013 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax is currently offline Slax

 
Messages:1411
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
silversurfer
Taking a break... :compcuppa:

WHAT?! :taskmaster:

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325508] Sat, 21 September 2013 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2793
Registered:May 2009
I wasn't really satisfied with the solution. We have all these tags and can't display them for weapons? :angry:

Now we can! :cheerleader:

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1144/2u6s.png

Simply click on the general tab a second time and so on just like the tooltip says. Active since revision 6428.

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325510] Sat, 21 September 2013 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Yes, we can! Wink
:super:

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325511] Sat, 21 September 2013 23:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Randok is currently offline Randok

 
Messages:321
Registered:March 2004
I think that the icon "sinks" will look better without the blue background. It does not fit with the others. I think so.

Report message to a moderator

Master Sergeant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325514] Sun, 22 September 2013 00:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn is currently offline Faalagorn

 
Messages:154
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
silversurfer
I wasn't really satisfied with the solution. We have all these tags and can't display them for weapons? :angry:

Now we can! :cheerleader:

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1144/2u6s.png

Simply click on the general tab a second time and so on just like the tooltip says. Active since revision 6428.

Yay, that looks great! Now this feature seems to be complete Smile. Unless someone founds a new missing property or decides to improve on things ^^.

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325515] Sun, 22 September 2013 01:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Randok
I think that the icon "sinks" will look better without the blue background. It does not fit with the others. I think so.

Do a new Icon then. They are just placeholders ... Wink

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant Major
Re: Showing more item flags in-game[message #325574] Mon, 23 September 2013 22:33 Go to previous message
derek is currently offline derek

 
Messages:147
Registered:April 2010
How about an anchor sign for "sinks"?

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant
Previous Topic: Squad Formations
Next Topic: Simulate air raids/artilery strikes to force player to attack
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sat May 18 14:01:34 GMT+3 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02225 seconds