Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » #JAFDEV » URGENT - Need a compilation of core modding tools/guides/functions (We need to get organized when it comes to modding)
 URGENT - Need a compilation of core modding tools/guides/functions [message #338800]
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Wed, 07 January 2015 18:53 
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 Shanga |
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Messages:3479
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia |
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I've been talking to FC about modding and now that v1.1.2 is a pretty stable version of the game I think we need to have a list for them with the core modding needs. Let's compile it here, please. I'll start:
1. We need a way to import into JAF map editor the default maps in order to modify them (either an import tool or a pack of maps in Unity format)
2. We need the default quests in ChatMapper format or, again, a way to import and modify them.
3. We need an updated guide of all Lua functions
4. We need more externalized JSON factors or a way to plug into the core functions that control factions, combat, stealth, skill progress, item wear, etc
5. We need a time frame for re-externalization of the sound files
6. A way to alter and tweak the AI scripts would also be greatly appreciated
7. A solution to import new 3d models in the game (without Unity Pro would be awesome, but even a solution that requires Unity Pro will do)
8. We need a guide on reusing present 3d models by duplicating them with new IDs (like they FC with Barrett, same 3d model + different UI picture = new weapon)
8a. A way to add clothing as equipment models for quest/RPG purposes (disguise)
9. A way to further tweak difficulty settings by switching to alternative enemy inventory and skill settings (including allowing grenades for AI).
10. A detailed mapping guide, especially on making the new types of underground sectors.
11. A way to edit and mix the effects attachments have in order to allow adding new types
12. A way to edit and mix the bullet effects in order to add new ammo types
13. A "stealth hit" critical defined in JSON (defined as first strike damage on a target that hasn't spotted your merc, be it 1st bullet or 1st melee hit, but with separate factors for each maybe)
14. Addressing the issue of close source code that keeps off most of the coding talent by offering limited access to certain parts of it to select programmers?
.. carry on
[Updated on: Sat, 10 January 2015 21:02] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: URGENT - Need a compilation of core modding tools/guides/functions [message #338889 is a reply to message #338800]
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Sat, 10 January 2015 16:57 
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| crnine |
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Messages:1
Registered:January 2015
Location: ger |
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Maybe extra json files for only AI values(timeouts, min max ap use, min percentage to shoot,...) and for all money related things(rewards, income and mercprice) would be nice.
Also a simple value representing how many key sectors(cities, mines, others) would be nice to have and added to the income calculation.
with this we could build something like loyality-based income, e.g. income calc for farm: 1000+100*CONTROLLED_KEY_POINTS(=farm+prison=2) =>1200 income per day. this will controll and force more thoughts on how and when to use money and fits to progression ingame as you have less income at the start and more later when equipement is more expensive.
Also when such values would be in files, you could create difficulty level mods and spare the money for more important proging tasks of FC.
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Civilian
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| Re: URGENT - Need a compilation of core modding tools/guides/functions [message #338890 is a reply to message #338889]
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Sat, 10 January 2015 17:57
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| Shanga |
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Messages:3479
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia |
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StrategicMap.json has the definitions you want, resource-wise:
{
"pos": "A11",
"name": "Bushy-Pointy Farm",
"envType": "Jungle",
"class": "Resource",
"income": 3680,
"roads": "S",
"control": "Enemy",
"locked": 1,
"quest": 0,
"secret": 0,
"forcePassagePlayer": 0,
"forcePassageEnemy": 0,
"overrideIcon": "",
"musicName": "town",
},
Loyality/progress multiplier considering number of towns liberated, number of towns with fully trained militia, stuff like that... it's a great idea.
[Updated on: Sat, 10 January 2015 18:00] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: URGENT - Need a compilation of core modding tools/guides/functions [message #338895 is a reply to message #338890]
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Sun, 11 January 2015 00:26
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| Chris K |
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Messages:13
Registered:March 2012
Location: Germany |
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I am not a modder. I've only done a couple of really small, really easy mods and the most programming I've done was this an internet page, where most of it is just a copy of another site (can't post a link), so I am a bit lost when it comes to what will be needed for those features, but I think a good plan when it comes to priorities would be to follow the top 3 features threat (again - can't post the link, but I guess you know what I'm talking about) as much as possible (easy things probably have to come first, even if they are less requested).
I did not count the last 2 guys that had too many requests (because I can not know what 3 they would have chosen if they did obey the 'rules'), but they were mostly in line with this. Even though I tried to account for this, since some people have posted twice, I might have counted wrong on some parts, but that shouldn't change the picture all that much.
On the absolute top of the list were (7 requests)
- merc relationships and
fighting with militia,
followed closely by (6 requests)
- town loyalty and
animated portraits,
then the count goes way down:
3 requests:
- more animations (death, walking etc.)
fighting with multiple squads
increased immersion with environment (mostly doors + lock-picking)
sector inventory
2 requests:
- mercs keep their setup when you are attacked (more a bug, but I didn't wanna leave it out)
UI (I think that would have been mentioned quite a bit more if that question was asked on Steam)
real explosives (mortars etc.)
improved AI (also something that I think would have been asked more on Steam)
1 request
- jobs on map (training etc.)
more hotkeys
retreat system
I think some things would have been asked for on Steam quite a bit more (I read them in a lot of threats, reviews etc.), mostly
UI + retreat system (part of UI)
AI
However, those things are probably impossible to mod right now and would take a lot of work by FC I would guess.
One of the main concerns is the atmosphere of the game (I might not be quite objective on this one, but I think that really is a main concern of a lot of, if not most players).
I actually think that should not be all that hard to at least improve quite a bit. Once the sound files are externalized again, we should just be able to give JAF a lot of the JA2 sounds and voices that fans are familiar with. If people (that are able) are willing to do so, we should be able to voice the game as well, right? So I think that should be at least one of the highest priorities right now.
Other things that would greatly improve the atmosphere and are way at the top here are the merc interactions. That and getting cutscenes into the game would imho be more than enough to improve the atmosphere enough for most players to be satisfied with (again, as long as people are willing to work on them). I'd have a hard time to produce something new, but I could probably cut the trailers into a decent intro video at least. If we wanted to do a remake of JA2 (I think that might be a project a lot of people would be interested in), that would probably give us the options to put JA2's cutscenes into the game.
The other main issues:
- Fighting with militia: I don't think that can be done by modding, can it?
- Town loyalty: already mentioned above, shouldn't be all that difficult to add, I guess.
- UI: hard coded and a big issue for quite a few people. Can anything be done about that?
- AI: already mentioned above, would certainly be great to have
- Explosive weapons (same goes for other new weapon types): A cheaper way than Unity Pro would be great for new assets. What about animations? Are these possible to mod right now? I don't think so. If that's the case, that should be kinda high up the list as well imho.
The rest are smaller things that shouldn't be too big of a concern unless they're easy to do (and would probably be FC's job).
That's it from me for now (apart from what you already wrote)
What else would we need to create completely new worlds with an immersive story in JAF? I think those are the type of mods that would truly help this game to live on (more or less) forever and therefore help the game the most in the long run.
[Updated on: Sun, 11 January 2015 00:30] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: URGENT - Need a compilation of core modding tools/guides/functions [message #338914 is a reply to message #338909]
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Sun, 11 January 2015 16:02
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| Shanga |
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Messages:3479
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia |
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A lot of people complain that the CtH indicator is flawed. A recent example comes from KS, where someone repeated a 67% 100 times and he expected something close to 67 hits out of 100. Which is a completely flawed test, because for the computer each shot is a separate event and not a series of 100 shots. If you'd make it a series of 100 shots and force 67 of them to be hits and 33 to be misses it would rather retarded CtH system. But that's how most people expect the system to work.
First, you need to determine what a "poor/average/good" shot is. And convey that information in classic color to the player (red/yellow/green). Second, when the computer and the dice gods decide to troll the poor player and throw a bad miss, you need to "pass the blame", like both JA2 and Wasteland 2 games do. JA2 warns you the shot is bad using merc commentary, W2 has snicker comments like "You aren't missing on purpose, are you?" from the other members of the group. So the player feels less inclined to blame the game (or math). You could even go further and keep a track of the recent string of good luck or bad luck of each mercenary and add an extra layer of RPG immersion to the game by triggering even more snicker comments. Such as "Yes, give the blind a sniper rifle...that's smart" or "Reading glasses would help Hitman more than a scoped weapon".
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| Re: URGENT - Need a compilation of core modding tools/guides/functions [message #338930 is a reply to message #338914]
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Sun, 11 January 2015 20:03
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| Chris K |
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Messages:13
Registered:March 2012
Location: Germany |
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I agree about the CTH indicator. I like knowing the exact percentage and even though I understand the luck component and therefore don't fault the system for not hitting, it does make the luck factor feel more predominant and people love to blame the game for it. In JA2's system, whether it's the original one or 1.13th, you can always see that the shot is not perfect (if it's not). When you see the exact number, let's say 90%, you give it a lot less slack. In your mind, 90% easily becomes 100 and when the last 90% hit, 80 seems a lot closer to 100 all of a sudden. I don't really get caught up in this too much, but I still feel that. A different CTH indicator should help with that.
Great idea about the snicker comments, but we would need additional voice acting for that (I doubt text alone would help much and it would hurt the immersion).
I dreamed a dream in time gone by when hope was high and JA seemed to have decent fans. I dreamed that people might be willing to voice act....
Just kidding, don't try to sing this, it sounds terrible  , but seriously, that would be really hard to get going. You either would need voices perfectly in line with what we got right now (or had in JA2) or you'd have to completely voice all the mercs with good voices. Imho one of the first goals should be to get JA2's voices with all their commentaries into JAF (or commentaries like this in addition to the ones we got already). Then we could think about adding additional ones.
[Updated on: Sun, 11 January 2015 20:04] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: URGENT - Need a compilation of core modding tools/guides/functions [message #338948 is a reply to message #338943]
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Mon, 12 January 2015 13:34
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| Shanga |
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Messages:3479
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia |
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Headshot wrote on Mon, 12 January 2015 06:25Hello all
Been a long time since I was active on any of the JA forums. Back when the start of 1.13 I pushed for a way to change or make new quest and end game triggers so entirely new campaigns and games could be designed. It never happened with JA2 due to its being hard coded but with this developer still being around maybe they could allow this as well. Just a thought.
Headshot
There are a defined set of Lua triggers that's pretty generous and that allows us to create a lot of quests (give item, check for item, check for certain stats, check for certain merc/npc ID, check for goal done/failed, spawn enemy, spawn/despawn a different NPC and make him aggresive/hireable, etc). Of course, we want even more, but even with the default set we can add a lot to the story. This is definitely one of the huge pluses of JA:F compared to JA2, considering not even v1.13 managed to untangle the mess that JA2 quest system is.
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