Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Traps can now be built with firearms
| New feature: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305634]
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Wed, 06 June 2012 01:15 
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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<font size=""> Traps made out of guns and a piece of tripwire </font>
I made another small feature that improves one's defensive capabilities. We are now able to use firearms in traps.
- Attach any firearm (any gun, no RPGs, Mortars or GLs) to a piece of tripwire. You will need the newest xmls for that.
- You can plant the tripwire as you usually do.
- Once activated, the gun that is attached to the wire will fire once. It will fire in the direction that you planted the bomb, just like claymore mines do (the direction that the merc planting the wire was looking).
- The bullet fired has the range and damage it would have if fired from the gun.
- The gun correctly heats, jams, degrades and whatever else guns do when fired. If the gun is jammed, not pumped (pumpguns) or does not have ammo, it will not fire.
- After firing, the gun lies on the floor, just where the trp was planted.
- This can be applied to any tripwire. You can ave multiple of these traps. Just put them into your normal trap setup however you like.
- At the moment, only single shots are possible, even for guns that do not have a single shot mode (MG3 etc.)
- Although I did not experience any problems with attachments, it might be a good idea to take any attachments off a gun if you attach it to tripwire.
- When the gun is attached, it is possible to attach gun attachments (lasers, scopes etc.) to the explosive. This is not intended, its a bug resulting from my poor .xml skills :bawling: . Do not attach any attachments to the explosive. They will be lost if the wire is activated.
Demonstration pics:
Barry has set up a few traps, consisting of tripwire (yellow), 2 claymores (red) and 2 gun traps (orange)
After stepping on the wire, the claymores explode, and the 2 guns fire, they can be seen on the floor.
Any gun can be attached, though only one at a time.
Barry activates a trap and hits Red with it...
This will not break any savegames. I will send this to RoWa in 5 minutes.
Go build more traps!
P.S.: The reason I open a new thread for every new feature is because people might be interested in them, but not find them if I just attach to the same thread over and over again...
[Updated on: Sun, 15 May 2016 18:20] Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305636]
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Wed, 06 June 2012 07:24 
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| Madd_Mugsy |
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Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada |
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Quote: When the gun is attached, it is possible to attach gun attachments (lasers, scopes etc.) to the explosive. This is not intended, its a bug resulting from my poor .xml skills . Do not attach any attachments to the explosive. They will be lost if the wire is activated.
I'm guessing this means you didn't code in a solution to AttachObjectXAS? I can take a look at it - might save on the massive amount of XML changes required by modders to support this feature. And I can probably solve the gun attachments issue while I'm at it...
EDIT: Done for AttachObjectNAS; I'll take a look at AttachObjectOAS tomorrow.
I discovered something interesting with gun attachments though. I managed to get it so that you can attach a gun with its attachments intact, with no additional slots created. The attachments cannot be removed until the gun is removed from the tripwire as well. But they don't disappear! And you can look at them by right clicking on the gun once its attached. This means that things like the rod & spring and other inseparable attachments should be ok. It also means that you can put a silencer on your gun if you want. I haven't tested whether these attachments of attachments work though, as I'm still working off of old code (didn't want to waste time @1am with SVN updating).
BTW, do we want a skill check to be performed? Which sound do you want to play? Currently it plays the detonator sound, since tripwire is an IC_BOMB.
EDIT: OAS is done now too. Skill check added; ATTACHING_DETONATOR check used. Sound changed to the standard gun attachment sound.
EDIT: After testing, it turns out that the attachments on the guns appear to continue to work when attached to tripwire! I was able to make a silenced pistol trap 
I'm going to commit this code now, as it solves the lasers-attaching-to-tripwire issue, and we can revise later if need be.
Note to all - new xmls are not required for this feature anymore. Just the latest exe.
[Updated on: Wed, 06 June 2012 20:02] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305664]
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Wed, 06 June 2012 23:45
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Well, I will eventually allow mappers to use those features in their maps too. For tripwire, for example, there are networks dedicated to the enemy only (which means that the player cannot place them). I can't give a date as to when that will be.
Problem with features is that people would propably not use them if they give them disadvantages.
I already did a bit in AI (zombies have their on AI). Although tweaking the AI is fun, it is also complicated with the current setup. If you are interested, in the AI, I recommend reading this diploma thesis: http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=manuel%20ladebeck%20jagged&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ke.tu-darmstadt.de%2Fbibtex%2Fattachments%2Fsingle%2F136&ei=sb3PT4aiDIfStAaIz_z5Cg&usg=AFQjCNEs77P3BGo1ScYxPPSvV2x4kzlNPQ
Yes, there is a diploma thesis that deals with ways to improve the Jagged Alliance 2 AI And it is rather well-written.
However, Warmsteel is currently working on the AI. I currently have some other coding projects to do, so I won't interfere with him there.
Unless I suddenly think of something and just implement it, which isn't rare.
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| Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305688]
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Thu, 07 June 2012 04:43
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 TClaymore |
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Messages:34
Registered:July 2011 |
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...HOPY SHIT THIS IS AMAZING. Like...bug-free implementation of tripwire traps and HAM5 would just make my freakin' day. This is great stuff. Thank you and your team (if there is one) soooo much for all your hard work!
EDIT: On closer reading, looks like this might have a bit longer to go. Lack of autofire or even burst would make certain guns more or less a flea bite...unless they would attract a soldier's attention, and they run off in that direction to search for a merc that doesn't exist? Either way, so long as it's single-shot only, sniper rifles would probably be good guns to use. Good use for a spare KSVK, I would guess.
[Updated on: Thu, 07 June 2012 05:05] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305717]
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Thu, 07 June 2012 19:06
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| Soto Banaris |
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Messages:129
Registered:May 2012
Location: Germany |
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TClaymore...On closer reading, looks like this might have a bit longer to go. Lack of autofire or even burst would make certain guns more or less a flea bite...unless they would attract a soldier's attention, and they run off in that direction to search for a merc that doesn't exist? Either way, so long as it's single-shot only, sniper rifles would probably be good guns to use. Good use for a spare KSVK, I would guess.
Incorrect. Not only sniper rifles would do the trick. Imagine a door with some space to place a trap. Now imagine you placing one or two shotguntraps there. Now, let's think what happens if an enemy comes through that door... Or place a lot of shotgun traps in a corridor. Whoever wants to go through that, must be insane! Dart traps might be funny as well. 
More of a problem will be choice. Will you plant explosive traps and leave plenty of room between them so they don't blow up at once or tightly packed guntraps. Keep in mind that explosives might harm the walls helping you to defend a place.
With a much larger variety, soon we won't need milita anymore, just someone to stay in the sector.
Got a question about tripwires, because an idea plopped into my mind right now. Let's say, I place a claymore on the edge of a roof and tripwire on the ground. Nothing would happen if the wire was triggered, right? Otherwise this could be a way to aim for the heads with claymores since the fragmentation goes directional but up and down as well..
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Sergeant
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| Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305885]
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Tue, 12 June 2012 20:56
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| TClaymore |
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Messages:34
Registered:July 2011 |
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I am not sure how I managed to forget shotties. Well-played, sir and/or madam!
EDIT: I do have a question for Flugente. If the bullet hits or passes close enough to a soldier or the soldier's close enough to the gun when it fires, will they run to investigate the sound?
[Updated on: Wed, 13 June 2012 06:35] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306070]
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Sun, 17 June 2012 16:07
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| Sandro |
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Messages:420
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars |
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Am I the only one concerned about the aim of your features, Flugente?
I see your great skills, and more importantly dedication, but what is your goal actually - in which direction you want JA2 to evolve?
You have added a lot of contraptions lately, which impact are hard to fully oversee. And they are eagerly added to SVN (even zombies). As I mentioned in sandbags thread - they may bring more exploits against the AI. There are already enough exploits that kills the game's tactical depth.
You said that making features that would make the game more difficult would result in people not using them... I don't agree. I would be happy to see more challenging stuff, if made with intelligence. Like to make possible to have more than 64 enemies in one sector at once, more (Drassen) counter attacks, moving tanks etc.
For me, I would be more happy to see the gameplay "rather goes deeper... than wider", if you know what I mean.
SO I'll repeat the question: What is your aim?
I don't want it to sound disrespectful, I am just a little concerned what is happening to my beloved game piece.. Whether enough thought was put behind...
-----
As for the animations - you do have to code in any new animations, and to tell the code how to handle them. It is not hard when you figure out how that system works, but if you would need some info I can help.
PasHancock:
It is not like I am away. I just don't have everyday access to the internet, since I moved. But I still work on JA2, and even have some features prepared for release by now.
[Updated on: Sun, 17 June 2012 16:58] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306085]
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Sun, 17 June 2012 20:16
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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I add features that I myself would like to see ingame. I began with the zombies and quickly decided that others might want to have those features too, thats why I'm here.
My motivation mostly comes from the feeling that there isn't enough 'interaction' with the surroundings going on. Thus the focus on explosives and traps.
I'm trying to evolve the mechanics a bit. I know that this sometimes can leave exploits, however:
Spamming the map with sandbags/barricades requires time and ingame money. The exploit with 100s of concertina wires is possible but it requires the player willingly do so. This game is already open to all kind of exploits (raising your money, editing your equipment/mercs, various existing exploits...). If a player wants to use them, I won't stop them - they'll ruin their game themselves.
Setting up traps also requires a bit of planning. Seeing that someone already opened a thread where he wants to discuss trap layouts, I think this actually adds to the depth of gameplay. Same for overheating, I think this can differentiate weapon choices more.
Once the tripwire stuff can be correctly be preplaced in the map editor, I think map creators like smeag will plant quite a few nasty surprises themselves, upping the difficulty on attacks.
If I deem a feature unsuitable for JA2, I either don't do it or don't add it to the trunk, like most of my WH40K stuff. The corruption concept also gives a bit more depth to character development, but doesn't fit standard JA2 imho (considering the skills, not the concept of learnable 'traits' per se).
That the AI cant use these features fully is a result of it not being able to due to the AI. A better AI would be a solution to many problems, including the fact that sheer mass is the only way they are dangerous.
Last but not least: all those features are optional. If they feel like an exploit, one can simply turn them off.
Also: I plan to one day increase the number of enemies that can be in a sector, as you mentioned. As you propably know well, these changes could be huge, until now I've shied away from that.
Is there any other particular concern you have, except for the barricade abuse?
Thanks for your post. I like it when people actually question what I do (in a polite way).
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| Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306257]
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Thu, 21 June 2012 20:37
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| Sandro |
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Messages:420
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars |
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I am not a fan of zombies either. In its current state that is.
There is no graphical support. Unlike for crepitus and bloodcats, no animations (yet). And since you would need quite a few animations (standing idle, running/walking, attacking, half-body crawling lol) to look properly made (for me at least), I am not optimistic in this point.
No quest related to it, or any other story/environment related stuff.
For example, if there would be a chemical plant somewhere in Alrulco, which would cause the zombie infestation, or whatever... maybe after XY% game progress queen would release a virus to slow your progression... it would feel a little more meaningful. Otherwise how so that dead people rise and become zombies just like that?
In its current state, this feature does not fit JA2 for me. Not to mention the option is in the preferences, it should go to ini at least.
And I also vote for making it for sci-fi mode only. How is it different from crepitus in realism? If you want to play realistic, you want to enjoy the feeling of realism, why is there a switch for zombies looking at you from preferences then?
That's for my opinion on zombies. And I actually like the idea itself, it is the state of the feature that makes it unfitting. Since it was added to SVN trunk... well..
Anyway sorry for hijacking this thread.
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Flugente:
I'm glad for your reply.
Your features are so fancy, that I feared a little that JA2-1.13 could become overflowing with all kinds of contraptions, and the actual gameplay would suffer, that's all. I would like JA2 to stay JA2, not to try to make Minecraft from it or something, if you know what I mean. But my fears were probably irrational.
Overheating, on the other hand, is a very nice feature and I am never gonna play my games without it now. Big thanks.
Uh.. and same for resting weapons on obstacles, cool and meaningful.
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