Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » JA 2 1.13 Installer & Naming Convention "stable/unstable" (Automatic install wizard & getting rid of stable/unstable)
( ) 2 Votes
| JA 2 1.13 Installer & Naming Convention "stable/unstable"[message #352805]
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Wed, 28 March 2018 14:48 
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 ATigersClaw |
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Messages:209
Registered:October 2014 |
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I just thought about some nice-to-have addition to get more players to this imho best game out there.
For me and probably everybody else on this forum, getting JA 2 1.13 (or any other mod) to run, is not difficult. Copy and paste this and that and you are ready to go.
Still, there are many casual JA 2 players out there, who once played the original JA 2 or read about it nowadays when it is still referenced as the best tactical turn-based game.
I'm pretty sure a big part of those potential players don't want to - or some probably can't even - figure out how to proceed to play JA 2 1.13, even though there are some instructions out there on how to get things running.
To make a long story short: What do you guys think about an installation wizard (or however these regular installers are called) for JA 2 1.13 and the mostly-used mods?
You download an exe, start it, select your JA 2 path, then check other optional possibilities (e. g. stable/unstable version, mods, Windows 10 Fix, alternate this and that etc.) and hit "Install".
Once the process is finished, the INI editor opens, so everybody can do the resolution settings etc. and that's it.
Easy to use for the masses and providing a high usability with little means.
As for most people, data transfer isn't the problem nowadays, the most popular mods like AR, AV, UC, AIMNAS etc. could be included in the setup or - if this would blow the size - they could be downloaded by the installer if checked.
I know that none of you guys on here have this "challenge", but I try to think out of a perspective from one of the casual JA 2 players.
In the end, more people playing this game and therefore revitalising this forum would be a benefit for all of us, wouldn't it?
To visualize the need for such a thing, here is an example of how my installation routine goes.
So far:
- Extract, copy & paste JA 2 1.13 7435
- Extract, copy, paste & execute JA 2 1.13 7609
- Extract, copy & paste JA 2 AR 1.4
- Extract, copy & paste JA 2 AR 1.4 Update
- Extract, copy, paste & execute Windows 10 fix
With an installer:
- Execute JA 2 1.13 installer
- Chose options & execute
I am good at marketing (my profession), not developing. Therefore, I have no sense of how much effort would be needed for that, so I'd love to get some feedback on it.
If we could realize such a thing, I'd contribute wherever I could (e. g. setting up a website running on my server, creating the content, instructions and so on etc.).
[Updated on: Sun, 01 April 2018 18:03] Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Aw: JA 2 1.13 installer for the masses[message #352808 is a reply to message #352805]
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Wed, 28 March 2018 19:40 
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| ATigersClaw |
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Messages:209
Registered:October 2014 |
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As far as the casual JA 2 player goes - to which this is directed -, I don't think they would focus on any unstable build.
They'd enter some keywords like "ja 2 1.13" into Google and in most cases end up on http://ja2v113.pbworks.com/w/page/4218339/FrontPage for the current stable build (Google organic ranks 1-3 all finally lead this way).
As the stable is only being updated every couple of years (last time 2014), there wouldn't be a lot of maintenance work, would there?
Just as I mentioned in my post before, it brings a lot more convenience, which is exactly what casual JA 2 players need to not be "scared" away.
This is pure marketing, making installing a game as easy as possible because who would want to read, extract, copy, paste, execute several different files blocks except for the hardcore mercenaries used to this stuff? I'm pretty sure nobody.
Still, I can't estimate the workload for an initial installer of the stable build.
Maybe some other vets on here like Flugente, smeagol, DepressivesBrot etc. could comment on that.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Aw: Re: Aw: JA 2 1.13 installer for the masses[message #352810 is a reply to message #352809]
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Wed, 28 March 2018 20:38
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| ATigersClaw |
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Messages:209
Registered:October 2014 |
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DepressivesBrot schrieb am Mi, 28 März 2018 19:05...since the current file is already plenty for my shitty network, I sure as hell won't go the bloatware all-in-one-and-the-kitchen-sink route.
Sticking to the idea of an executable installer, it probably should only contain all necessary files but offer additional files (e. g. fixes or mods) to download during the installation process in case a checkbox is activated.
DepressivesBrot schrieb am Mi, 28 März 2018 19:05If it was up to me, we'd be steering people well away from that obsolete, unsupported, so-called stable release.
From what you are saying, it sounds like the unstable build is preferrable in almost every way, but still it is called "unstable", which keeps me (and probably many others) from using this release. Do you know why this naming convention is still being used, if the stable release is outdated, unsupported etc.?
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: Aw: Re: Aw: JA 2 1.13 installer for the masses[message #352814 is a reply to message #352810]
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Wed, 28 March 2018 23:35
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Builds are labelled 'unstable' because they contain the newest features (and thus the newest bugs too  , but also new fixes for old bugs ). The 'stable' didn't get the at-the-time newest features and was 'tested' 'extensively', and was called 'stable' to, dunno, get people to like it?
Stable 2014 wasn't in any way more stable than newer releases. Personally, I hope nobody ever gets the idea for another 'stable'. For a year we committed everything to two separate branches - instead of being smart and creating a branch based on an older revision a year later and then merging in the bugfixes. It was tedious extrawork, with now real gain in my opinion.
It is the base for several mods because those modders decided to. It is outdated because by definition it doesn't get new stuff (and I have no interest in merging fixes into a 4-year old branch all the time). The only reasons to use stable are
- a mod is built on it
- You wan't to use sevenfm's AI and other additions, as he bases it on stable 14
As to the idea of an installer itself... I don't have anything against it. Depri's SCIs seem pretty simple to me, but if a flashy installer helps, why not.
Of course, with such an installer one would expect any mod coming along with it to be updated to whatever 1.13 version comes with it, not sure if that is always the case.
[Updated on: Wed, 28 March 2018 23:39]
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.Report message to a moderator
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| Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: JA 2 1.13 installer for the masses[message #352824 is a reply to message #352814]
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Thu, 29 March 2018 11:46
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| ATigersClaw |
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Messages:209
Registered:October 2014 |
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These insights help getting the big picture. In this case developing an installer would be rather a second step. I now see the challenge in other places.
I don't want to stir up too much waves, as I'm not as dedicated as most of you guys but as I mentioned in my first post, I view this from a marketing perspective, because this is what I do as a profession (product marketing for a software product).
So, there are a couple of questions coming to my mind. All of this of course with respect to the rightful creator of JA 2 1.13.
1. Does anybody know who is in charge (creator) of the stable/unstable build and http://ja2v113.pbworks.com/w/page/4218339/FrontPage on which most of the players are landing when looking for JA 2 1.13?
I would like to get in contact with the person/team.
2. Wouldn't it make sense to change the naming convention with the stable/unstable build as this has a solely negative impact on JA 2 1.13?
a. The current naming convention leads most players to use the obsolete, unsupported stable build.
b. The unstable build might have some new bugs due to new features, but also fixes many old bugs and therefore unstable doesn't actually fit anymore.
Proposal: Remove "stable" and "unstable" and just have a regular release. Old mods relying on the stable would then just be "only working with release 7609" for example.
2. As http://ja2v113.pbworks.com/w/page/4218339/FrontPage doesn't seem to be too much up-to-date, wouldn't it make sense to initiate a relaunch of this site (best case: with a new naming convention)?
Proposal: Set up a simple WordPress installation with only the mandatory content for a first step (e. g. latest release, installation instructions etc.) to start fast.
Once done, additional information could be added step-by-step, but all with respect to a high usability for the casual visitor. If this is ok with the copyright owner, I'd commit myself to this.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: JA 2 1.13 installer for the masses[message #352825 is a reply to message #352824]
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Thu, 29 March 2018 13:49
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| The_Bob |
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Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you. |
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silversurfer and RoWa21 are the keepers of the code, so I guess they're in charge of making any kind of releases happen. I don't think there's anyone actively maintaining the wiki or any sort of documentation so if you or anyone else can bring that info up to date, I think the position's open, and it would definitely do the project some good.
Sevenfm's builds are what could be considered the currently maintained legacy version, win10 timer fix is reason enough to promote his current "7609+fix" release over the so-called stable release that probably won't even work for most people nowadays.
The current 1.13 SVN versions are also pretty stable, it's not like people commit broken code all the time, and even when that happens it gets fixed relatively quickly. It could probably use a balance pass though, some features need their data files updated, also I don't think there's any one manual that lists and explains all features currently in 1.13.
I think an installer could simply be a program that lets the user pick a JA2 directory (maybe tries to find it in the registry) and select one of 1.13 releases, I mean either one of sevenfm's versions or whatever the current SCI is. Then it downloads+extracts the package and optionally adds a desktop icon, opens the manual, and opens the .ini editor.
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| Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: Re: Aw: JA 2 1.13 installer for the masses[message #352877 is a reply to message #352875]
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Sat, 31 March 2018 23:47
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| townltu |
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Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
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RoWa21 wrote on Sat, 31 March 2018 21:56We already have a "professional" installer project build with Inno Setup.
...
Reminds me of an issue with Kaucukovnik666`s Wizardry 8 Enhancements mod ~4y ago,
it was also packed with inno setup, caused a "floating point division by zero" error on XP when executing setup,
culprit was the format of inno setups background picture.
So in case you may want to ensure compatibility with outdated(&superior;) OS
Besides i generally prefer zip/rar/7z compatible archives,
especially if the installers archive can not be extracted with common program like win-zip/rar or 7zip.
Also install routines which dld files from web drastically incease suspicion lvl of paranoid users like me;)
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Master Sergeant
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