Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Feature Requests » [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night
 [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352891]
|
Mon, 02 April 2018 10:53 
|
|
 LLIkaOIO |
 |
Messages:18
Registered:May 2011 |
|
|
Like crepitus do it. (attack happens on random time, but from edge of tropical or forest sectors; if player fail to defend sector, cats will kill civilians).
Amount of cats (3-15) depends on:
- game progress
- quantity of militia and mercs in sector
- etc.
So, what do you think?
[Updated on: Tue, 03 April 2018 07:11] Report message to a moderator
|
Private
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352908 is a reply to message #352905]
|
Mon, 02 April 2018 18:32 
|
|
| townltu |
 |
Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
|
|
While i like the idea of sectors being attacked by another faction in general,
i refuse to kill bloodcats unless in urgent self defence.
(and do more rp related stuff other players may regard as utterly stupid;)
So i would appreciate to optionally have random attacks by zombies instead of cats,
perhaps controlled by sector specific entry in maps.xml.
As i understand they are technically similar to bloodcats regarding faction rating&hostility towards all other factions,
player also has more options to configure their combat performance than for bloodcats,
and they are potentially hard enough to not result in tedious battle.
Could also include zombie hordes and/or cat packs into scout/militia/HQ recon results.
Report message to a moderator
|
Master Sergeant
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352914 is a reply to message #352913]
|
Tue, 03 April 2018 01:27
|
|
| Flugente |
 |
Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
|
|
Eh? Of course it's possible with bloodcats, as I said above, they already exist. It's possible with anything, including kittens. That would require a kitten bodytype, and kitten animations though, which nobody would ever be assed to create, so the point is kinda moot, isn't it?
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352916 is a reply to message #352905]
|
Tue, 03 April 2018 07:33
|
|
| LLIkaOIO |
|
Messages:18
Registered:May 2011 |
|
|
Flugente wrote on Mon, 02 April 2018 12:47Though fighting bloodcats is simply tedious, especially at night. Especially once militia have upgraded to ARs.
Yes, killing blood-cats in 1.13 is easier than in vanilla, because 1.13 has _real_ autofire feature.
But this attacks may be _real_ PITA when you _begin_ to capture a town (for example - Cambria):
you come there at night, wipe three sectors (from hospital to mine), begin to train militia and at this moment cats may appear. With that feature you will need to redistribute mercs to captured sectors to secure them. So, no more one-night-whole-city-wipeouts, you will need to plan what sectors you capture first, then secure them, and then go further.
And may be bloodcats need to be boosted somehow. Make them harder to interrupt, give them nightops trait  , or something...
Flugente wrote on Mon, 02 April 2018 12:47(otherwise the player could simply avoid these attacks by not being near offending sectors)
I mean attack must be _inside_ city sector, not in sector which is adjacent to city...
[Updated on: Tue, 03 April 2018 07:50] Report message to a moderator
|
Private
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352918 is a reply to message #352917]
|
Tue, 03 April 2018 08:00
|
|
| LLIkaOIO |
|
Messages:18
Registered:May 2011 |
|
|
edmortimer wrote on Tue, 03 April 2018 04:45Quote:May be bloodcats need to be boosted somehow. Make them harder to interrupt, give them nightops trait big grin , or something...
Try throwing a grenade at a Bloodcat that's charging at you - fun, fun. (the operative word there is "try").
Every squad i recruit have a merc with scouting trait so, no... i do not see any bloodcat ingame.
[Updated on: Tue, 03 April 2018 08:02] Report message to a moderator
|
Private
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352928 is a reply to message #352919]
|
Tue, 03 April 2018 22:36
|
|
| Flugente |
|
Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
|
|
While this seemed somewhat boring to me, after thinking about it a bit, this might be more useful than I previously thought, after proper alterations.
Idea would be that bloodcats attack not properly defended city sectors under the players control. They would mostly come at night... mostly.
This would target only very lightly or not all defended city/SAM sectors. That would both be reasonable - predating animals would target weak spots - and be an incentive for the player to properly secure his territory. Enemy heli drops have a similar goal and can happen much more rapidly, but can be thwarted with proper air defense or sabotage. As these attacks can happen anywhere (as long as the sector can be reached from an adjacent wilderness sector, so west Grumm would be out), the player has to at least put a token militia force everywhere.
Come to think about it, this would not need to be bloodcats. Zombies, of one were to play with that, would work as well. As well as, say bandits (or perhaps those would just be ASD-controlled, deniable thugs acting on behalf of the queen). Having only access to admin-level gear, the player won't even benefit that much from defeating them.
Considering the we already have creature attacks that happen out of thin air, I see no significant obstacles here. All attacking forces would vanish once they have won, after eating part of the population and causing a huge loyalty drop.
All these attack forces would need to work with autoresolve of course - so what I now need are fitting pictures for alive/dead bloodcat, zombie/more deader zombie, alive/dead male/female bandit (using the other human faces would be confusing). We currently have:
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352932 is a reply to message #352928]
|
Wed, 04 April 2018 01:09
|
|
| townltu |
|
Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
|
|
Flugente wrote on Tue, 03 April 2018 22:36...
All these attack forces would need to work with autoresolve of course - so what I now need are fitting pictures for alive/dead bloodcat, zombie/more deader zombie, alive/dead male/female bandit (using the other human faces would be confusing). We currently have:
Are the pictures in correct dimension, i.e. 30x27 pixel?
Anyway, can somebody pls give me a hint where to find them?
(already messed up CF by browsing through too big stis;)
Made some quick attempts assuming 30x27 is correct:
first 2 are based on 3d model from Psionics.uk, all others are Wiz8 3D models retextured to zombie,
all copied from 3d editor window while models are slowly moving,
so there should be some potential to improve them.
p.s.
to make them even deader,
i think they could simply be reduced to greyscale and darkend
[Updated on: Wed, 04 April 2018 01:11] Report message to a moderator
|
Master Sergeant
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Aw: Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352940 is a reply to message #352928]
|
Wed, 04 April 2018 08:40
|
|
| ATigersClaw |
 |
Messages:209
Registered:October 2014 |
|
|
Flugente schrieb am Di, 03 April 2018 21:36While this seemed somewhat boring to me, after thinking about it a bit, this might be more useful than I previously thought, after proper alterations.
Idea would be that bloodcats attack not properly defended city sectors under the players control. They would mostly come at night... mostly.
This would target only very lightly or not all defended city/SAM sectors. That would both be reasonable - predating animals would target weak spots - and be an incentive for the player to properly secure his territory. Enemy heli drops have a similar goal and can happen much more rapidly, but can be thwarted with proper air defense or sabotage. As these attacks can happen anywhere (as long as the sector can be reached from an adjacent wilderness sector, so west Grumm would be out), the player has to at least put a token militia force everywhere.
Come to think about it, this would not need to be bloodcats. Zombies, of one were to play with that, would work as well. As well as, say bandits (or perhaps those would just be ASD-controlled, deniable thugs acting on behalf of the queen). Having only access to admin-level gear, the player won't even benefit that much from defeating them.
Considering the we already have creature attacks that happen out of thin air, I see no significant obstacles here. All attacking forces would vanish once they have won, after eating part of the population and causing a huge loyalty drop.
As mentioned in my first post, I like the idea of bloodcats attacking mostly at night every now and then, with two or three cats at max but the idea with the thugs/thiefs or even smugglers (as used in Arulco Revisited) is an even greater addition. It could be a squad of weapon smugglers who just happen to pass through town and feel offended by our mercs or the local militia and therefore start going nuts. This could add to immersion alot.
Report message to a moderator
|
Sergeant 1st Class
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352946 is a reply to message #352933]
|
Wed, 04 April 2018 17:30
|
|
| townltu |
|
Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
|
|
Flugente wrote on Wed, 04 April 2018 02:00...
You can find the faces in Data/Interface/SMFACES.STI.
Thank you for the hint.
The rather elaborate results, i.e. not much room for improvent left for my skills:
The lower half has pics for "deader than undead" creatures
Keep in mind that i did not test them in game,
pls let me know in case flaws show up there, respectively if they dont work at all, so i can try to fix them.
Also anybody pls feel free to edit these, present your own creations, or make suggestions on how to improve something.
Although the pics very low LoD will hardly cause related issues,
the obligatory copyright/credits related info, pics numbered from upper left to lower right:
Programs used in the process:
Madgods Cosmic Forge editor for Wizardry 6/7/8; The Gimp; Irfanview;
Project1.exe aka improved stiEditor.exe by batman (allows batch import of *.bmp to multi frame .sti)
Pictures 1-4 and 17-20: created from screenshots of a free 3D animated zombie model provided by psionics.uk,
package included the texture for the mesh, variations of the original texture were done by me.
(site is down, according to readme in the zombies package "attribution is appreciated but not required")
Pictures 5-9 and 21-25: based on Qusaris texture mod for a Wizardry 8 model as part of his Reforged Mod, which is PD.
Pictures 10-12 and 26-29: textures of Wizardry 8.
Pictures 13-16 and 30-33: based on the picture of a skull found at Teviec, France,
released on Wikipedia under CC 4.0 Attribution-Share Alike int license by user Didier Descouens, see: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Teviec_Face.jpg
p.s. not much cat stuff here, except for few rakshasa faces(humanoid/cat hybrid),
fantasy style deformed sabretooth heads and a lynx with slim teeth which may fit best among all cat stuff i have:
Report message to a moderator
|
Master Sergeant
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #352983 is a reply to message #352962]
|
Fri, 06 April 2018 07:57
|
|
| Colt .45 Peacemaker |
|
Messages:409
Registered:June 2016
Location: Norway |
|
|
Animals will not go into cities unless extremely hungry, animals are afraid of humans and the vibe of the city (noise,lights,etc, same as they keep away from fire) except in rare occasions, such as the Ghost and the Darkness. Those 2 lions were very strange. They were homosexuals, sharing the same lair without harems of females and they killed for sport, not hunger.
What worries me is the civilians. Enemy soldiers are fighting only the militia, they may sometimes accidentally shoot a civilian that didn't bother to get out of the crossfire and duck. Once in Cambria, an enemy bullet killed a kid. While it was sad it also impressed me for the gritty realism the game was showing. Along the same lines, bug spray, while it is aimed at militia, can also harm civilians if they are too close to the point of impact.
Which raises some questions.....
1. Will the bloodcats/zombies will be able to discriminate between armed opponents and unarmed civilians ?
2. Civilians getting caught in the crossfire and get killed , can they respawn as different civilians over time ? Otherwise the city sectors will become devoid of life.
3. What about the named NPC's ? Quest givers, Repairers, etc, the ones that add immersion and color to the game. In San Mona for instance, almost everyone is armed yet they appear as civilians. Also there are many named NPS's. What will happen to them if we have zombies and bloodcats attacking every city, in addition to the army and the bugs ?
In my opinion, the best way to implement bloodcat attacks , would be Optional, same as with the Ini.Editor settings for zombies. And in much smaller numbers, although that option concerning number of creatures in tactical can go as high as 40. Very unrealistic when it comes to bloodcats. The bugs procreate through eggs, which mean thousands/millions so the high number of creatures works ok for them. Even with their size, birthing dozens would still justify the high number of attacking creatures. Not so for the bloodcats though. By the way, since the bugs spit acid (Alien franchise), why do they attack the cities for ? Maybe there should be some egg morphing implemented ? ;D
[Updated on: Sun, 08 April 2018 10:53]
Nipson anomimata mi monan opsinReport message to a moderator
|
Master Sergeant
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #353005 is a reply to message #352983]
|
Sun, 08 April 2018 14:33
|
|
| Flugente |
|
Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
|
|
These raids are intended to happen in player-controlled sectors that are lightly or not at all defended, at least for bloodcats and bandits. Zombies are simply too stupid to care, but having dozens of them pop up suddenly would be just unfair, so zombie raids will also be small.
1. All creatures, whether bugs, bloodcats or zombies, have always attacked everyone else, including civilians (apart from Meduna Arena, but that is a silly place). I don't see why they shouldn't. If the player fails to defend his sectors, their fault.
Due to coding reasons, bandits will also be part of the creature team, so will attack civilians too. Might be somewhat harsh if we treat them as mere criminals, but is understandable is we follow the motion that these are expendable, deniable terror attacks secretly funded by the queen.
2. If I recall all civs in a sector respawn once all have been killed. If the attack and defeat happens in autoresolve, or if no battle happens because nobody defends a sector, you get a prompt saying that x civs have been killed and morale drops, but that does not affect civs shown in tactical.
Given the small numbers involved and the AI does not exactly hunt for civs hiding in buildings, it would require a player deliberately hiding in combat to allow the AI to truly depopulate a sector.
3. People die if they are killed. They aren't really any NPCs whose deaths would break the game (If I recall, you still get money from a mine, even if the head miner was killed, if you were not the one to kill them).
Note that I'll add xml settings that control in which sectors these attacks can happen, and that the entire thing only makes sense if this is a town/SAM sector that has value to the player.
While it would make a lot of sense for bloodcats to attack isolated farms, at least in the current game, there is hardly any incnetive to defend them, nor is there a loyalty penalty involved. Similar, as San Mona has no working mine, no loyalty and no militia training possibility (at least in stock), these attacks would only happen if we are there. Which doesn't make sense, why would someone attack if there are more armed people than usually there? That's not even mentioning that it would be royally stupid for bloodcats or bandits to attack a town where almost everyone is armed.
This doesn't necessarily hold true for zombies, but... fuck those guys, honestly.
As for bugs, their attacks are a vanilla feature - they attack sectors if the player fails to cull them in time, as they slowly move upwards from their lair.
Note that in the Alien franchise, the drones do not spit acid (ranged attacks involving literally spending your own blood in hue quantities seem inefficient). Additionally, the Demise of Man mod alredy has the entire Alien lifecycle implemented. You can start as a fachugger, infect some dude, run around as a chestburster, then a drone, then a queen. I once made my hive in Drassen mine, infecting all the miners and creating dozens of drones. Only to find out that yes, attacking ranged enemies with melee-only drones sucks :-)
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #353007 is a reply to message #353005]
|
Sun, 08 April 2018 16:34
|
|
| townltu |
|
Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
|
|
Flugente wrote on Sun, 08 April 2018 14:33...
3. People die if they are killed. They aren't really any NPCs whose deaths would break the game (If I recall, you still get money from a mine, even if the head miner was killed, if you were not the one to kill them).
...
For Calvin Blakemores mine i have proven on regular base;) that income does not stop if we deliberately kill him.
For all other head miners mines i can only reliably confirm
that they continue to produce income if the head miner was killed by enemy.
Besides, do you already have sabertooth alive/dead potraits?
In case not, these are the imo best i found:
painting by Charles R. Knight, the imo best PD, but it will suffer from ~ -45deg rotation
Good pics with attribution/share-alike copyright:Smilodon Fatalis by Sergiodlarosa and Smilodon Fatalis by Dantheman9758
Did not find a good sabertooth skull sideview, was thinking about adding teeth to a free pic of common big cat skull.
Regarding the posted portraits, any merciless feedback or suggestion what/how to improve?
(note the ones with blue background are the raw pics created from screenshots,
i only added them in case somebody with better editing skills than me would like to work on them)
My personal favourite for a zombie would be either 4 or 9,
10 and 11 as only options for bandits arent imo really that great,
perhaps the guy in the upper left from the pic in this message ?
My skull favourite is 28, i didnt even bother to test any other in game(but will & fix issues if appreciated)
and think a skull also fits best for dead_dead zombies, i.e. forget the greyed clones.
Report message to a moderator
|
Master Sergeant
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #353009 is a reply to message #353008]
|
Sun, 08 April 2018 17:49
|
|
| townltu |
|
Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
|
|
Flugente wrote on Sun, 08 April 2018 16:42...
These are 31x27 pixel pics, so large paintings aren't that useful.
Well i would of course crop the head & scale it down to 31x27,
but why make the effort before the actual decision to really use them, pics should be sufficient for that.
Scaling down requires at least contrast&color correction plus occasional manual edits,
i am a very lazy person and making JA2 portraits is mostly an addmittedly appreciated distraction from modding Wiz8 ;)
Quote:What I'd now need are pics for male/female bandit, because reusing existing soldier pics is somewhat confusing.
how about these male bandits:
(Wiz 8 character portraits, may cause reactions ranging from confusion to biggrin for wiz8 veterans)
Female potraits: see below/above.
[Updated on: Sun, 08 April 2018 21:31] Report message to a moderator
|
Master Sergeant
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #353016 is a reply to message #353013]
|
Sun, 08 April 2018 23:00
|
|
| townltu |
|
Messages:384
Registered:December 2017
Location: here |
|
|
Flugente wrote on Sun, 08 April 2018 21:54...
did the game only use these portraits, or were there also additional eye/mouth movement pics used (did the character pics blink and talk)? Yes the portraits incl frames for the eyes and for the mouth like for JA2 portraits,
probably corresponding to same expressions.
Didnt know we also need these for the auto resolve,
will require to redo all from scratch for animated eyes/mouth
as each pic edit was individual and differrent values for contrast/brightness/colors not noted down, of course;)
However it may be a challenge to get something thats is comprehensively recognizeble as movement in the 31x27 portraits,
it was already hard for me to create animated faces for Wiz8 portraits and moving mouth textures at ~ 3x that resolution.
Report message to a moderator
|
Master Sergeant
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #353017 is a reply to message #353016]
|
Sun, 08 April 2018 23:09
|
|
| Flugente |
|
Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
|
|
No, we don't need them for autoresolve, the little pics from above are enough.
However, if these anims do exist (and you can extract them), then that means we have face animations for a dozen or so new IMPs or mercs! This is, like, extremely unexpected and good!!! Need!
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: [Idea] Cat attacks city sectors at night[message #353155 is a reply to message #353041]
|
Sun, 15 April 2018 17:43
|
|
| Flugente |
|
Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
|
|
Relevant thread is relevant.
@townltu: I did not use the sabercats - as we have no skull in similar style, that would look somehwat odd. For me the solution in the video suffices.
[Updated on: Sun, 15 April 2018 17:44]
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.Report message to a moderator
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Wed Feb 19 00:07:55 GMT+2 2025
Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02649 seconds
|
Blog
Search
Help
Members
Register
Login
Home
