Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Combat/Weapon Academy » Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?
Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #331743]
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Mon, 14 April 2014 06:39
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Azure_Repeater |
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Messages:144
Registered:March 2014 Location: Philippines |
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Hi! I really think the Mk2 Defensive Grenade and the Mini Grenade is worthless. They actually do little damage in the game. In real life, they actually KILL people. I honestly don't know what their use is in the game. I mean, most of the guns in the game do more damage. The grenade damage in the game isn't realistic.
In real life = GRENADE! TAKE COVER!
In the game = Haha! Didn't feel a thing!
So, are grenades really worthless? If not, then what do you guys use them for?
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Sergeant
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Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336144]
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Thu, 25 September 2014 18:03
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Vincent J. Claymore |
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Messages:285
Registered:February 2011 |
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It's a fair point that once can simply change the damage value of grenades, but maybe are more general approach would indeed make sense.
My knowledge of military equipment is more or less based on movies, wikipedia and tell tale, but I would imagine that a grenade like the mk2 exploding at someone's feet would kill him (in JA2 game terms, that is. In RL terms: Injure him in such a way that he can no longer be active as a merc, because he misses a limb or something similar).
Is this assumption incorrect?
- If so, why isn't the default damage caused by grenades increased to bring them on level with (very deadly!) firearms?
- If not, is grenade damage at default settings realistic then?
Or do you rather think that this is a matter of simulation? Has the damage been artificially reduced to account for the fact that (also quite artificially) targets cannot jump for cover because of the turn-based system?
In that case: Would it make sense for some grenades to explode the next turn, and is this moddable? (obviously some grenades detonate on impact, but there are some with a timed fuse, right?)
Also: Would it be possible to make explosives throwable? (like tnt, c4, even charges etc.)
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Master Sergeant
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Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336146]
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Thu, 25 September 2014 18:54
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Vincent J. Claymore |
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Messages:285
Registered:February 2011 |
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silversurferVinnieClaymore
Or do you rather think that this is a matter of simulation? Has the damage been artificially reduced to account for the fact that (also quite artificially) targets cannot jump for cover because of the turn-based system?
I guess this is the case. If the damage was too high you could wipe out a whole group with one grenade. This would lead to massive frustration.
True, that would be quite frustrating when happening to the player. At the same time, AI probably wouldn't exploit this as much as the playing, making it kind of an exploit.
silversurfer
VinnieClaymore
In that case: Would it make sense for some grenades to explode the next turn, and is this moddable? (obviously some grenades detonate on impact, but there are some with a timed fuse, right?)
No, that wouldn't make sense because it wouldn't change anything. If we detonate them at the start of the next turn we still couldn't take cover and if we do it on the end of the turn it is too easy to just run away.
Would it be possible to give auto-interruptions upon having a grenade tossed at you with the grenade exploding at the beginning of you next turn? So IF you have AP left you can run, if not - tough cookies!
silversurferVinnieClaymore
Also: Would it be possible to make explosives throwable? (like tnt, c4, even charges etc.)
As far as I know you can already arm explosives in inventory and throw them afterwards.
I see, I didn't know that. How do you arm them without placing them? Also, isn't range for throwing inventory objects much shorter than for throwing grenades? But I guess this is good enough for a fix.
I guess grenades are also affected by this whole weapon's range vs. movement range issue. If one tile represents 100m
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Master Sergeant
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Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336147]
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Thu, 25 September 2014 19:23
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Deleted. |
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Messages:2657
Registered:December 2012 Location: Russian Federation |
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There are also some balance issues:
For example, sometimes it's hard to (reliably) hit enemy even at 10-15 tiles (if he runs a lot or when using NCTH), so if you make grenades powerful enough there will be no need for small/medium range guns most of the time - make IMP with high str and dex and demolition trait, fill a backpack with small grenades and you have a devastating killing machine =)
Another thing is iron man mode - in 1.13 enemy throws a lot of grenades, so you will not want to lose 3-4 mercs from one grenade thrown by elite enemy.
As for me, I think that (explosive) grenades should fill their role on the field:
- mostly use against someone you cannot hit with gun (behind the obstacle or smth)
- use powerful but heavy grenades (or packs of grenades) against multiple enemies or against tanks at close range
As for giving interrupt for enemy when throwing grenade - I think it was implemented in some mods, maybe ja2'005 or NOps, don't remember exactly.
It is also possible to throw "timed" grenades in NightOps mod, just like in old XCOM game.
In 1.13, it's is easy to make timed grenades by transforming grenades to regular explosives with default fuse attachment, arming and throwing. But the explosives are thrown as regular items and not grenades, so range and CTH will be calculated differently.
Also, the AI doesn't know about item transformations =)
About RL grenade power - small grenades have only 30-50g of explosives, so if you remove the frag case they will be harmless even at very close range like 1-2m, except for some stun effect.
To tear off smb's extremity, you have to put armed grenade directly in his pocket =)
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Re: Grenades (Mk2 Grenades, Mini Grenades) are useless?[message #336494]
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Tue, 07 October 2014 22:13
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grim |
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Messages:344
Registered:July 2006 Location: France |
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Haha, yes, thought about that! Their grudge is not that legitimate, my merc tried to jam the frequencies, but the strike happened anyway
Anyway, as i said, it's a side effect of your fragments implementation, not your "fault". I made a post on the 'dynamic merc opinions' thread to report the issue. The notification here is just a feedback.
By the way, mortar explosions send a lot of fragments and quite far. Your warning was pertinent, you'd better take cover when they hit!
I'll have to test grenades and other explosives more along my campaign, at the moment they seem fine (i tested mini grenades and frag grenades).
[Updated on: Tue, 07 October 2014 22:17] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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