Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » 100AP Project - open Beta
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199542] Mon, 20 October 2008 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
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Registered:March 2006
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NIV is included in any mod that was made after April this year, as it is part of the game code now. Of course, NIV is completely optional, so even if it scares you, you can always turn it off (on the New Game screen). I'd really recommend you try it out though. Wink

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Sergeant Major

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199544] Mon, 20 October 2008 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
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BTW, I don't agree. A handful of diamonds is superior to an avalance of pebbles - because the man who holds the diamonds can use them, indirectly, for an infinite number of achievements. Wink

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Sergeant Major

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199553] Mon, 20 October 2008 20:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I was actually wondering because I want to use it but I'd like to try out this beta-test, too, without having several campaigns going on.

As it is I'm going to have to do that now anyway, I think. Your HAM beta looks really tasty! Too bad I can't have a 100AP HAM sandwich.

LOL! I'll have to reword my sig, it's my very poor translation of a Taoist proverb about the strength of common things. Serves me right for trying to be all philosophical.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199555] Mon, 20 October 2008 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
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Quote:
As it is I'm going to have to do that now anyway, I think. Your HAM beta looks really tasty! Too bad I can't have a 100AP HAM sandwich.


Maybe, in the near future. At least I think you'll be able to have 100AP with EDB. Wink

Quote:
Better to rumble like rocks than tinkle like jade.
--Tao te Ching


AH! Now that's a quotation! Chapter 39. The Blackney translation?

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Sergeant Major

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199557] Mon, 20 October 2008 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
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Quote:
it's my very poor translation of a Taoist proverb about the strength of common things. Serves me right for trying to be all philosophical.


Actually, I think that the Tao's entire purpose is for you to try and translate it yourself, to give it a meaning that no one else but you can give...

As to this translation, I think the spirit of the chapter is very different - this is the last sentence in a chapter that speaks about being humble, so you've taken it in a different (albeit interesting) direction.

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Sergeant Major

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199561] Mon, 20 October 2008 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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Registered:April 2002
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I can't remember which version the translation was, it's in a box back in Canada. I read the verses so often that I can almost remember them word for word. I realized later that we're probably really meant to forget them. Wink And, yes, I believe that that chapter was about humility.

I do have one of my favourite books here in Korea with me though: Thomas Merton's The Way of Chuang Tzu a nice little books of stories.

As for the merges of HAM and 100AP, I'm liking what I'm seeing completed one year on. Last time I played was last year and some of this stuff hadn't even been discussed. I really can't wait to see how it works!

[Updated on: Mon, 20 October 2008 21:49] by Moderator

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199571] Mon, 20 October 2008 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Quote:
Jackinthebox
I get a CTD immedialty after I see the Sirtech logo.

Marlboro Man
Not sure I understand why, it works just fine with the latest SVN. You do have to start the game with the .exe that comes with this though.

ChrisL
Hmm. I'm not sure. The build is based off the latest code in the main branch. Rev 2369 as of yesterday. So long as you have the latest version of 1.13 (the version that includes the MultiPlayer project) then you shouldn't have an issue. If you don't have the MultiPlayer update, then you might run into problems since you'll be missing an INI file (Ja2_mp.ini) the I beleive the code requires to run. Not that 100AP needs it, but since 100AP was built onto the latest code and the latest code needs it.

As far as compatability, because 100AP is written on the latest source code (which includes MP), it is not compatible with save games created with a "pre-MP" build. The MP code was introduced with rev 2124, so if you've been playing with a build prior to that, your savegame won't be compatible. But any savegame created with an MP version of the program should be fully compatible with 100AP.

Starwalker
He might also miss the TITLETEXT_MP.STI in the Data/Loadscreens-folder.
Missing this seems to be a standard error during transition from single-player-only exe to single/multi-player exe.


I also had a CTD after the Sirtech logo. Based on the clues from ChrisL and Starwalker I grabbed the MP data update from the wiki page (you can get it here) and extracted it as described in the file notes (included in the rar file).

I opted to do a fresh install w/o using SVN due to the initial warning that SVN might overwrite the 100AP data (and a general lack of HD space on my doddering old laptop Very Happy )

Anyone who is installing this beta on top of the last release (r2085) needs the MP data in the perviously mentioned update. I've gotten past the loadscreen and I'll update if anything else unusual happens.

{edit}
I had a number of equipment inconsistencies (wrong ammo types being ejected from guns, etc.) which I'm guessing is coming from using the standard release instead of SVN. I'm going to scrap this and do a fresh install and update via SVN.

I was also using Marlboro's Rearranged Ron's Faces with their associated Prof.dat. Would that have accounted for the inconsistencies in starting equipment, or is the starting equipment only drawn from the XMLs now?

{edit2}
Okay, from what I've read (or reread, as the case may be, apparently I've forgotten a lot in a year. Wink ) the equipment draws are only taken from the XMLs so it looks like this is a case of having to start with an up-to-date SVN updated install for this beta.

I'll post back if there's something else but it looks like an SVN updated install is necessary. If you're using the standard release you'll either have to wait until a new release to use the 100AP system or try dipping your toe into the wonderful world of SVN updates. The aforementioned separate data-100AP folder that was mentioned in the initial posts is good advice.

[Updated on: Tue, 21 October 2008 02:49] by Moderator

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199591] Tue, 21 October 2008 05:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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Registered:April 2002
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Everything is working fine after a full SVN update. I'm not sure there's anything outright to notice with respect to playing the game, but I'm sure that the range of tuning for various weapons and actions makes it more flexible and detailed.

Getting used to the higher numbers is going to take a few sessions. "Oh look, I've got plenty of APs to be able to crouch after firing. DOH!!"

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199594] Tue, 21 October 2008 09:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
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Registered:October 2005
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gpmg
Getting used to the higher numbers is going to take a few sessions. "Oh look, I've got plenty of APs to be able to crouch after firing. DOH!!"

Yes, indeed, it takes some time to get used to the new numbers.

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199601] Tue, 21 October 2008 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andris is currently offline Andris

 
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I guess I will just have to learn to count:) I wasn't familiar with numbers over 25AP's:)

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Corporal 1st Class
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199615] Tue, 21 October 2008 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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Okay, I got a CTD upon opening BR's site the first time. Is this just my install or can anyone else confirm it? In the "Bug Reports" forum Headrock reported a similar sounding bug.

[Updated on: Tue, 21 October 2008 15:59] by Moderator

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199639] Tue, 21 October 2008 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
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Registered:March 2007
Yeah. I messed up one of Headrocks changes while trying to streamline things a bit. I've got the bug resolved now and I'll have a new 100AP build in a few hours.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199640] Tue, 21 October 2008 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
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Registered:March 2007
Got a new build posted that resolves the BR problem. That's all this does, though. No other changes so all you really need is the exe file.

100AP.8 2382 Release.7z

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199667] Wed, 22 October 2008 05:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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Thanks Chris.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199850] Thu, 23 October 2008 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
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Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I encountered an odd bug.

After a battle in the Drassen Mine sector, two enemies had fled from battle into the central Drassen sector. Flo and Ira were training militia there but no battle started.

Suspecting a glitch with something I moved the Drassen team into the central sector via the strategic map. Once there I got the "enemies are present" message and the placement screen came up.

When I placed the first squad everything seemed okay, but then I noticed that Flo and Ira were part of a team with Grizzly, who had been in his own squad when the sector was entered. It wouldn't let me place the squad: "That doesn't look accessible, try another location.", no matter where I tried placing them.

Finally, I clicked "Spread" and got an "assertion failure press enter to exit" (or something like that, I should have written it down, sorry.)

Is this a new bug? I haven't had a chance to check around the forums yet.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199851] Thu, 23 October 2008 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fenrir is currently offline Fenrir
Messages:4
Registered:August 2008
I have seen exactly the same thing happen before when I placed mercs from the heli into a squad while being above an enemy sector. Considering I don't have the 100AP beta, it seems to be a SVN problem.

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Civilian
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199941] Fri, 24 October 2008 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arquebus is currently offline Arquebus

 
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Registered:June 2008
Location: Oslo Norway
Ive encountered this on normal 1.13 too

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Corporal
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #199980] Fri, 24 October 2008 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
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Registered:March 2007
Yeah, that's not a 100AP issue. It's something we've been trying to track down for awhile now. If someone has a savegame that generates this error (100AP or not), feel free to email it to me (ctiberious(at)aol.com) and I'll see what I can find.

In the mean time, I've got a new build for you guys. Headrock, in another discussion, pointed out the AP penalty from suppression fire. I realized that I'd not externalized that, or updated it for 100AP. So now I have. Smile

100AP.9 2383 Release.7z

As always, this archive contains all the 100AP files, but only the INI and EXE have actually changed. And this build should be fully compatible with previous 100AP builds, along with any "post-MP" savegames.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #200274] Tue, 28 October 2008 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
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I know it's only been a couple days, but I've added a couple of bug fixes to the main code branch and I wanted to include those in the 100AP build. So here's a new build for you.

The fixes include a bug that Headrock found in the CTH/Autofire code, as well as what I'm hoping will be a fix for assertion and placement errors that occured when trying to place a previously inactive merc on the Tactical Placement map.

100AP.9 2385 Release.7z

As always, this archive contains all the 100AP files, but only EXE has actually changed. And this build should be fully compatible with previous 100AP builds, along with any "post-MP" savegames.

EDIT: The Weapons.xml file in the archive is also newly updated. Just a minor fix from Starwalker which effects only one weapon.

[Updated on: Tue, 28 October 2008 21:25] by Moderator

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #200284] Wed, 29 October 2008 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:670
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Thanks Chris. I'm just playing away and everything seems to be fine. It takes some getting used to the new numbers but I can see that they do add flexibility with the actions and items.

I should probably mess around with the numbers in the .ini file to really bugtest this more but I've been having too much fun trying to break it during regular play. Wink

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #200401] Thu, 30 October 2008 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
Messages:605
Registered:March 2007
I've got one final buid for you all. This one adds another fix to the CTH/Autofire code plus a resolution to a Strategic AI assertion error that seemed to occur later in the game. I've also included some updates to the XML files based on the rev 1048 game branch.

100AP.9 2389 Release.7z

As always, this archive contains all the 100AP files. The EXE is a must, and I'd recommend using the XML files as well. This build should be fully compatible with previous 100AP builds, along with any "post-MP" savegames.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #200554] Sun, 02 November 2008 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:670
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Thanks Chris.

I'd like to make a general comment about the 'feel' of the game with this system: it feels more flexible; the high values displayed for AP costs seem to promise a potential for more subtle differences.

I'm not sure how much of this potential has been actually realized yet (probably just a little?) but I think it shows great promise.

My only complaint is that I find it difficult to switch back to 'normal' (i.e. SVN) versions of the game. Not really a complaint, I guess, but I hope that this at least gets added as an option for the main branch.

Thanks for all the work you and the team have put into this (and onto miscellaneous unassociated bugs).

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202656] Thu, 27 November 2008 19:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scheinworld is currently offline Scheinworld

 
Messages:961
Registered:December 2007
Location: Baltic Sea, Germany
Hello Chris,

At first many thanks for the work of your team. I really like the new 100AP system. My current install package: SVN / Revision 1051.

Possible a simple question (sorry Embarrassed ): "Can I use an older exe with my installed version?" Sometimes I want to play the game with an older exe like the many mercenaries build: ja2_release_SV_B005.exe by SpaceViking, but if I use it, then the 100AP system still works and so the playing makes no sense. Is there an entry in the INI file and if

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202659] Thu, 27 November 2008 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
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Registered:October 2005
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Uhm, in case you missed it. But SpaceViking just released a new "beta" in his thread, that should include everything up to current SVN 2436.exe. in it. "I think". Smile

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Sergeant Major

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202681] Fri, 28 November 2008 03:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking is currently offline SpaceViking

 
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Registered:January 2004
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Yup. I refreshed the source code before I built it this morning.

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202690] Fri, 28 November 2008 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scheinworld is currently offline Scheinworld

 
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@ Marlboro Man: Thank you for the hint! Smile I

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202712] Fri, 28 November 2008 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
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Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
The 100AP-System is the new standard, you /can/ switch back to the 25AP-System, but this still needs a 100AP-exe to interpret the adjusted values in several XML-files properly.

What you can do is: Make another folder for your older games, get an older SVN-version (pre 100AP) for it, and change your JA2.ini (to have the custom-folder entry point to the correct folder) before playing with the old exes.

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202714] Fri, 28 November 2008 20:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scheinworld is currently offline Scheinworld

 
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Hallo Starwalker Smile ,

Starwalker
The 100AP-System is the new standard, you /can/ switch back to the 25AP-System, but this still needs a 100AP-exe to interpret the adjusted values in several XML-files properly.


Thank you for your reply. Is this a potential aim for the future to give the users the possibility to switch between the both AP-systems, maybe as an entry in the INI or as an entry in the game options like the using of the Enhanced Description Box? Don

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202750] Sat, 29 November 2008 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wanne (aka RoWa21) is currently offline wanne (aka RoWa21)

 
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@scheinworld: You can switch between the 25 and the 100 AP system. There is a new INI file named "APBPConstants.ini" in your Data-1.13 folder. Just change the first line AP_MAXIMUM = 100 to AP_MAXIMUM = 25 and leave the other values the same. Then you have the 25 AP system back.

EDIT: You can also use the new INI Editor for changing the 100 AP System.

[Updated on: Sat, 29 November 2008 12:21] by Moderator

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Sergeant Major

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202910] Mon, 01 December 2008 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
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I don't think you can use a save game you created with the 100AP build in an older build. But you can use older saves in the 100AP build. So long as the save was created with a "post-MP" build. Otherwise, just do what Rowa21 said. You can also change the AP_MAXIMUM to basically any number you want if you're interested in trying other systems. The variable will support values up to around 32k, though I wouldn't recommend anything about 999 as it probably won't display in game correctly. Smile

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202912] Mon, 01 December 2008 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tais

 
Messages:656
Registered:February 2008
Location: NL
well I have a question about the maximum ap's.
I tried setting the player_ap_bonus value to 40 while using the 100AP svn version and I had mercs that stopped walking in real time mode and when in turn based mode they blew all their ap's in one gunshot, they even went into negative ap values

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202915] Mon, 01 December 2008 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
Messages:605
Registered:March 2007
Tais
well I have a question about the maximum ap's.
I tried setting the player_ap_bonus value to 40 while using the 100AP svn version and I had mercs that stopped walking in real time mode and when in turn based mode they blew all their ap's in one gunshot, they even went into negative ap values
Hmm. I just tested this and got the same results. Really odd. I'll delve into the code and see if I can't figure out what is going on.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202917] Mon, 01 December 2008 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking is currently offline SpaceViking

 
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Registered:January 2004
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Chris, I'd hazard a guess from the symptom that INT8s are being used for calculations. INT8s can hold a maximum value of 127.

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202920] Mon, 01 December 2008 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
Messages:605
Registered:March 2007
Yup. That's sort of what was happening. There was a variable being recast to an INT8. I've committed the fix for it. Not sure why it was affecting real time mode, but when I removed the recasting, everything started working again.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202928] Mon, 01 December 2008 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tais

 
Messages:656
Registered:February 2008
Location: NL
does the 100ap modification also mean that player_ap_bonus can be higher than 50?

oh wait i'll try and find that out myself... Smile

wow you can add as much as you want as player_ap_bonus, just played with 100 extra and it worked perfectly

[Updated on: Mon, 01 December 2008 22:48] by Moderator

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202967] Tue, 02 December 2008 02:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scheinworld is currently offline Scheinworld

 
Messages:961
Registered:December 2007
Location: Baltic Sea, Germany
Thx @ Roman & Chris Smile ,

RoWa21
@scheinworld: You can switch between the 25 and the 100 AP system. There is a new INI file named "APBPConstants.ini" in your Data-1.13 folder. Just change the first line AP_MAXIMUM = 100 to AP_MAXIMUM = 25 and leave the other values the same. Then you have the 25 AP system back.


\Data-1.13 APBPConstants.ini:
[APConstants]
;***********************************************************************
;* The maximum number of Action Points a merc may have.                *
;* Should be 5x MAX_AP_CARRIED for game-balance purposes.              *
;***********************************************************************
AP_MAXIMUM = 100

etc.


Ahh, I only have to change the first entry and I can disregard the other entries if I want to play the game with the known classic 25 AP-system.

RoWa21
You can also use the new INI Editor for changing the 100 AP System.


Yes, I

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #202995] Tue, 02 December 2008 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Scheinworld
\Data-1.13 APBPConstants.ini:
[APConstants]
;***********************************************************************
;* The maximum number of Action Points a merc may have.                *
;* Should be 5x MAX_AP_CARRIED for game-balance purposes.              *
;***********************************************************************
AP_MAXIMUM = 100

etc.


Ahh, I only have to change the first entry and I can disregard the other entries if I want to play the game with the known classic 25 AP-system.

That works only if all other entries are commented out (with a ';').

If there are any uncommented entries, then these values will be used by the game. So switching back to 25AP by putting AP_MAXIMUM to 25 while AP_MINIMUM is set to 40 and has no ';' in front of it, is a bad idea Wink

EDIT: we made a version of APBPConstants.ini that had all values except AP_MAXIMUM commented out, but I believe I pulled a version without the comment-marks from the SVN-Server recently, so be careful out there...

[Updated on: Tue, 02 December 2008 10:29] by Moderator

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #203079] Tue, 02 December 2008 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
Messages:605
Registered:March 2007
Actually, that isn't completely accurate. The code has hard coded "default" values. It compares these values to those read from the APBPConstants.ini file (except for AP_MAXIMUM). If they are the same, then the code automatically adjusts them for the AP_MAXIMUM value you've set. So, if you set AP_MAXIMUM = 25 and have AP_MINIMUM = 40 (and not commented out), then the code will see that it's the same as the built in default, and automatically adjust it to 10. It's only if you put in a value other then the default that the code will not make the dynamic change. I.E., if you set AP_MAXIMUM = 25 and AP_MINIMUM = 39, AP_MINIMUM will remain 39 in the code (of course, this will screw things up, but that's another issue altogether Smile )

Starwalker, the APBPConstants.ini had to use uncommented values for it to work correctly in the new INI editor.

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First Sergeant
Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #203110] Tue, 02 December 2008 23:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker is currently offline Starwalker

 
Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
ChrisL
Actually, that isn't completely accurate. The code has hard coded "default" values. It compares these values to those read from the APBPConstants.ini file (except for AP_MAXIMUM). If they are the same, then the code automatically adjusts them for the AP_MAXIMUM value you've set. So, if you set AP_MAXIMUM = 25 and have AP_MINIMUM = 40 (and not commented out), then the code will see that it's the same as the built in default, and automatically adjust it to 10. It's only if you put in a value other then the default that the code will not make the dynamic change. I.E., if you set AP_MAXIMUM = 25 and AP_MINIMUM = 39, AP_MINIMUM will remain 39 in the code (of course, this will screw things up, but that's another issue altogether Smile )

Starwalker, the APBPConstants.ini had to use uncommented values for it to work correctly in the new INI editor.

Ahhh, I was under the assumption that the uncommented values would always be taken, being equal to the defaults or not...

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First Sergeant

Re: 100AP Project - open Beta[message #203115] Tue, 02 December 2008 23:39 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
ctiberious is currently offline ctiberious

 
Messages:605
Registered:March 2007
Starwalker
Ahhh, I was under the assumption that the uncommented values would always be taken, being equal to the defaults or not...
I wanted to do that but I wasn't sure how to make the program realize that a value hadn't been entered. Then Rowa21 wrote the INI Editor and explained that, for it to work right, the values needed to be uncommented. Smile

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First Sergeant
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