Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Combat/Weapon Academy » Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?
| Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #301600]
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Mon, 12 March 2012 21:12 
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 Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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So I decided to try out melee and martial arts for the first time ever as my second campaign on my wife's laptop.
One custom IMP, Razor and Frankie, Q, Numb, and Malice to start. The IMP was awesome, some of the others decidedly not so.
Campaign is set to Novice difficulty. I haven't played that in ages.
Lots of default 1.13 settings, since I haven't really had a chance to play around with the XML editor on this PC yet. Just a few INI tweaks, and off I went.
Ugh. I suck at this!
Is there any sort of technique to make it work decently? If you aren't able to close AND attack within one turn, you leave yourself really vulnerable to pistol fire. And even when I'm ending my turn behind cover, ending so close to the enemy is making them spam grenades at me.
My tactics idea was to provide covering fire with whatever automatic weapons I have, and then flank/move in with the guys that only had pistols and melee weapons. It's not really working, though. My team is suffering a major casualty every fight that I have after Omerta (which went deceptively smoothly).
On my last fight, I was attacking the weapons cache at E11 from the southwest corner, using tree cover to approach the building. As I got behind the shed, I lost the IMP and Razor to a small mob, and Haywire was stunned. Going to start over again, completely.
Any ideas as to what I could be doing wrong?
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #301601]
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Mon, 12 March 2012 21:27 
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| Sandro |
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Messages:420
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars |
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You need to sneak like crazy and lots of save/loading.
Even with save-load madness, it is quite a challenge, and a funny one. Daylight missions are still mostly suicide though.
Melee basically doesn't stack much with Martial Arts on a single merc, so you may skip one and either take Athletics, Throwing or Stealth.
You may also increase the number of traits and create ultimate ninja IMP with Martial Arts, Melee, Throwing, Athletics, Stealth, Bodybuilding and Ambidexterity (for faster stripping KOed enemies of items)... and go all ninja style, punching and stabbing people, hurling shurikens all over etc. May be a lot of fun. 
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| Re: Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #301602]
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Mon, 12 March 2012 21:32
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Melee works best at night, as it is easier to take down someone without being immediately fired upon, and its way easier to reach someone you see.
High strength is a must. Use crowbars or knuckle dusters, ideally you'll need one hit to knock 'em unconscious. Be cautious, it might happen that the enemy immediately gets up again. In that case, weaken them with the first punch (without crowbar) and then hit them with the crowbar in the second punch. you can find a crowbar most of the time in the lower right house in A9.
Knives work well, provided you have someone who is good with them (Razor). Ideally you should find a knife that kills the enemy in 1 hit (being hit by a knife doesn't take that much AP, so they'll be able to retaliate if they live). It might be good to first use the knife and then punch (ideally with crowbar).
If you play with new traits, I'd strongly advise using the 'athletics'-skill. Saves a lot of AP while running.
Going melee in broad daylight, on a map without possibilites to ambush a lone soldier (like in cities), is extremely frustrating. Unless you abuse the AI with timing your turns.
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| Re: Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #301603]
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Mon, 12 March 2012 21:41
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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If you like sneaking and don't mind a little AI-abuse, here's this glitch:
As long as the enemy doesn#t know your there, they are in the 'green' AI mode. They won't search for you. If you see an enemy, and thereby get into turnbased-mode, you can for look away and end your turn. Real-time will continue, the enemy didn't get a turn.
One can heavily abuse this. Using the cover display, run towards an enemy (but no one may see you!) while no one knows you're there. Have a few APs left, turn into another direction (so you won't see him). Then, end your turn (real-time kicks in). There is a window, ~ 1 second long, in which the enemy won't continue his path or change his viewpoint. Now immediately turn into the direction of he soldier. You'll be back in turn-based mode, with full APs. You can even kill enemies this way, but you'll have to make sure they are dead before you end your turn. quite easy,if your standing next to him...
With this AI-abuse, you'll be able to clear any sector with bare fists... but believe me, it#s rather boring. But useful, if you just want to kill one enemy and then continue playing honourable 
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| Re: Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #301701]
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Tue, 13 March 2012 23:01
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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This definitely wasn't a trapper. It sounded massive.
I'm gonna buy some stuff tonight on a random save game slot and listen to the sounds...
Edit: It's totally the M40A1. That thing sounds bigger than the anti material rifles!
[Updated on: Wed, 14 March 2012 02:01] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #301704]
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Wed, 14 March 2012 02:02
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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I had to start a new game with tons of cash, fight my way to Drassen, and then order each damn sniper rifle in an awesome BR setting to find it. But it's definitely the M40A1.
I'll keep checking to see if any other weapons use that sound file.
Edit: the S&O Shorty uses the same sound, so it could have been either weapon. I had a handful of used weapons that jammed up for good before I could get a shot off, so I'm not sure about the Scout and some of the others, still.
[Updated on: Wed, 14 March 2012 02:13] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #303731]
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Sat, 21 April 2012 18:58
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| FelixDrake |
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Messages:33
Registered:September 2008 |
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Martial arts is primarily for item acquisition, though it has other uses also.
An important thing to understand is if you are running the game with the less difficult setting of enemies drop all, there is very little reason not to just put a point blank burst to the head with near silent weapon of choice.
The suppression and aimed attack of martial arts are what pushes it over the edge.
IMP merc Carlos "Roundhouse" Norris says ROUNDHOUSE KICK, accept no substitute.
There are four main situations I have found Martial Arts to be useful.
Cornered!: Mr. desert camo comes around the corner with his awesome gun and massive armor. A well placed boot to the head for 1/3rd of your APs and he's down for much longer than a stun grenade and can be robbed then pummeled to death for the strength practice long before he would have awoken.
Silent Night:So long as you understand the mechanics and consistently spot the enemy before they spot you, the real fighting can start after you take out all the snipers, spotters, and anyone stupid enough to travel alone. This can be done with really quiet guns, but the to hit bonuses of martial arts are large enough that with good stats, your chances of missing two straight kicks is pretty low, and once they are down, you get all their gear.
Reinforcements:Drassen counterattack, anyone? So the Drassen counterattack is about to happen, you hit one of the reinforcement groups, meaning you are fighting 20 soldiers with 20 reinforcements (then later, 20 soldiers with 40 reinforcements, but with building corners to help)
Take down a group of, say, 3-5 enemies with a stun grenade and a peppering with buckshot to be sure.
A martial artist can keep them suppressed for about 15-20 rounds if you do things right before they finally die of pummelitis and are replaced. If they don't have gas masks and you do, tear gas + pummeling = suppressed until end of fight pretty much.
Gimme Gimme Gimme:Let's face it, there are times you want something the enemy has and want it BAD. Martial arts makes this immensely easier.
Skills that can work well with Martial arts (use aimed attacks. One successful aimed martial arts
kick will take down an enemy without bodybuilding, no weapon required)
Athletics: Helps you run in, beat them down, and get at least one square away from your enemy to ensure he does not spot for his sniper buddy in the bushes. Great skill in it's own right too.
Night Ops: See them before they see you. You can't sneak up behind someone unless you're, you know, behind them. Athletics will probably help more though. Otherwise favorite skill for many since... well since there has been a Night Ops skill.
Stealth: Helps you run up behind them silently. Helps you sneak close enough to run up and roundhouse their faces in ... I'd still go athletics, though.
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #303857]
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Tue, 24 April 2012 22:07
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| FelixDrake |
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Messages:33
Registered:September 2008 |
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Melee is to kill, MA is to stun/steal.
Ultimately, once you have all the stuff you can steal, MA/Melee is ... sort of wasted.
That said, it is an excellent way to get str/agi/dex to 100, which itself is an advantage. Admittedly, there are abuses to increase most stats, but this happens to be a good 5-15 points of stats just from regular use, spread between the sneaking up and the application of boots to heads.
As for why the kicks are not happening, you need
a)no knuckles/weapons equipped (90% sure of this)
b)aimed shot (left click, right click, left click) Cursor does not change, only AP used
c)Martial arts (HtH will just pummel harder)
large body type might stop it, due to vanilla stuff:
In vanilla, both body type, and whether you got martial arts were tied to starting physical stats, and thus there may BE no roundhouse to the face large body animations.
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: Melee/Martial Arts? Near useless?[message #342786 is a reply to message #301602]
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Mon, 12 October 2015 03:20
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| johnson |
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Messages:59
Registered:September 2015 |
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Flugente wrote on Mon, 12 March 2012 20:32Melee works best at night, as it is easier to take down someone without being immediately fired upon, and its way easier to reach someone you see.
High strength is a must. Use crowbars or knuckle dusters, ideally you'll need one hit to knock 'em unconscious. Be cautious, it might happen that the enemy immediately gets up again. In that case, weaken them with the first punch (without crowbar) and then hit them with the crowbar in the second punch. you can find a crowbar most of the time in the lower right house in A9.c
This can be further enhanced by employing a spy, either as scout\backup or for the actual killing.
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Corporal
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